Covid 19 thread

[thirteen28]

I would like to know the age of all the participants in this thread.

56

 

[thirteen28]

Can't refute them, or most or any of them? Oh yes indeedy I could! I just have to be in a particularly exasperated mood to write one of my insanely long responses.

For now I'll just refer y'all to the Scientific American post, above. (And yea, that magazine is well respected and doesn't publish unsubstantiated bullshit, sorry if that offends some who prefer a more "anything goes" attitude of "I read something somewhere on social media from someone who says they are a scientist, so I'll roll with that.")

And as for the “I gotta bridge to sell ya” line, I’d pay you the licensing fee except I suspect maybe you weren’t the first to come up with it

X already handled it above by noting that the flu kills people with pre-conditions as well, yet those deaths are not attributed to flu deaths the same way Covid deaths have been attributed.

But your rebuttal still doesn't address deaths for, e.g., people in hospice with terminal cancer who are going to die within days *anyway* whether the have Covid or not. In another thread, we were talking about Alex Trebek, who recently died of pancreatic cancer. Under the method for which they have accounted for Covid deaths, that would have been attributed to Covid, never mind the fact that he had been battling pancreatic cancer for a while.

And nothing has touched on the literally thousands of Covid deaths (hell, thousands in NY alone) that were attributed to Covid despite not having a positive Covid test but instead based on mere symptoms that *could* have been consistent with covid but could have just as easily originated from a common cold. How can you count any death as a Covid death in the absence of a legitimately positive Covid diagnosis in the first place? (Hint: you can't).

No matter how you slice it, the data for Covid that we've been force fed and which has been used to justify huge societal disruptions is irrevocably tainted beyond the point of usefulness. No person with a *healthy* level of skepticism should take this data at face value or consider it as having any real scientific worthiness. It's not to say that Covid shouldn't be taken with some level of seriousness, but it certainly tainted enough that we have nothing resembling the true picture of the severity of this virus.

So instead we run around like chicken littles acting as if the sky is falling, when nothing of the sort is happening. But to pretend it is makes people feel virtuous and makes them feel better about surrendering the management of their lives and their essential liberties to government officials who are only too happy to take that power away while doing all they can to avoid accountability for their own fuck ups.

As I said above, I can see how people lose their freedoms because this exercise has shown how fear can be ginned up to get people to give them away over a virus which isn't really much of a threat to an overwhelmingly large majority of us.

I almost want to say that it's too bad for King George that he didn't come up with a pandemic like this during the American Revolution. But I stopped because the Revolutionary generation fought that during a smallpox pandemic. Wonder what they would think of us now.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Excellent. Thank you.

Now tell me why people in this situation, who die of complications from influenza, don’t have “death by influenza” on their death certificates. According to MANY doctors, this is the disparity between Covid and influenza that infuriates them. They’ve never had to give influenza top billing when a terminal patient dies from it, or any advanced stages of it (like pneumonia). For if they did have to do the same thing with influenza, then the influenza deaths in this Country would triple annually.

Think S Korea adds those cases into their totals? Doubtful.

I’m sorry to have roped you into that response, but it’s the only way I can get you to understand my (and their) POV on why these numbers aren’t right. Now, that said, nobody is saying Covid doesn’t kill the immunocompromised, the infirmed, the morbidly obese, those with advanced stages of disease, or even the healthy (if they don’t seek treatment). But we ARE saying that it’s getting too much credit, and it’s being billed as something far more dangerous than it really is.

Help me out with a link here? I’m not aware of coding differences between the flu and Covid.

On a Death Certificate, I think “cause of death” is supposed to mean exactly that— the coroner’s best guess as to what exactly caused the death.

So do you accept the Scientific American article, or dismiss it?Is your point that Covid death numbers are okay, but flu death numbers should be much higher? Not quite following you, here.

If you and 1328 provide me some links to support your POV on this subject, I’ll be happy to read them. Meantime, here’s one:

Comparing COVID-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is like Comparing Apples to Oranges

The former are actual numbers; the latter are inflated statistical estimates

blogs.scientificamerican.com

And another:

Number Of COVID-19 Deaths Is Based On Actual Reports; Flu Deaths Are Estimates

Influenza and COVID-19 share several commonalities. They both cause respiratory distress. They both can be transmitted via contact and in droplets. And they both kill. The two viruses have drawn […]

www.wpr.org

 

[thirteen28]

 

[-X-]

Help me out with a link here? I’m not aware of coding differences between the flu and Covid.

On a Death Certificate, I think “cause of death” is supposed to mean exactly that— the coroner’s best guess as to what exactly caused the death.

So do you accept the Scientific American article, or dismiss it?Is your point that Covid death numbers are okay, but flu death numbers should be much higher? Not quite following you, here.

Not at the moment. I’m at work and don’t have my laptop. But it’s also in this thread somewhere. How doctors made videos openly questioning why they were told to list Covid as a cause of death even if the underlying disease was exacerbated by it (and they ultimately died from that), and how they were never before told to list influenza as the cause of death even if there were underlying conditions exacerbated by influenza, (and they ultimately died from that). It’s a matter of consistency and they didn’t understand the rationale. Then there’s the health official who was on video directly saying, that in her State, if you died *with* Covid, then it was called a Covid death. No questions asked. The videos are scarcely available now, if at all, because YouTube keeps yanking them down. Actual doctors, in their offices, don’t get to opine on their directives. But I’ll track those videos down later somehow. Wish I had just downloaded them.

Would it even matter to you though? I mean do you want to see any direct contradiction to the prevalence of opinion on this, or are you just anxious to find a way to debunk it? And what if you can’t debunk it? You gonna change your mind because of a few voices that are struggling to be heard? Or are they just whackos BECAUSE they’re questioning the rules laid out for them and offer contrary opinions? That seems to be how they’re treated, so I don’t know why you’d be any different. That’s not an insult. I just don’t think you want there to be any other explanations. What you’re told is good enough.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Not at the moment. I’m at work and don’t have my laptop. But it’s also in this thread somewhere. How doctors made videos openly questioning why they were told to list Covid as a cause of death even if the underlying disease was exacerbated by it (and they ultimately died from that), and how they were never before told to list influenza as the cause of death even if there were underlying conditions exacerbated by influenza, (and they ultimately died from that). It’s a matter of consistency and they didn’t understand the rationale. Then there’s the health official who was on video directly saying, that in her State, if you died *with* Covid, then it was called a Covid death. I questions asked. The videos are scarcely available now, if at all, because YouTube keeps yanking them down. Actual doctors, in their offices, don’t get to opine on their directives. But I’ll track those videos down later somehow. Wish I had just downloaded them.

Would it even matter to you though? I mean do you want to see any direct contradiction to the prevalence of opinion on this, or are you just anxious to find a way to debunk it? And what if you can’t debunk it? You gonna change your mind because of a few voices that are struggling to be heard? Or are they just whackos BECAUSE they’re questioning the rules laid out for them and offer contrary opinions? That seems to be how they’re treated, so I don’t know why you’d be any different. That’s not an insult. I just don’t think you want there to be any other explanations. What you’re told is good enough.

I’ve been burned before, though. I TRIED to give the “minority POV” a chance with HCQ. I even read the entirety of that “HCQ International Study” that was posted. But digging into the weeds, I discovered that it was complete and utter bullshit, just a bunch of made up lies and nonsense, with the intentional goal to mislead.

Sorry but we disagree on this one: if something is such egregiously bullshit that it has to be removed from Facebook or Twitter, then yes, I have a high degree of confidence that it is indeed bullshit. There is a LOT of misinformation and disinformation flying around these days.

 

[-X-]

As for putting quote marks around the word “scientists”, I’m just gonna have to throw my buddy -X- under the bus on this one. The ol’ playground taunt works well on this one: “He started it!” -X- has been putting quote marks around “science” for a long time in this thread.

Did you just tell on me?

 

[XXXIVwin]

 

[-X-]

.

So do you accept the Scientific American article, or dismiss it?Is your point that Covid death numbers are okay, but flu death numbers should be much higher? Not quite following you, here.

If you and 1328 provide me some links to support your POV on this subject, I’ll be happy to read them. Meantime, here’s one:

Comparing COVID-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is like Comparing Apples to Oranges

The former are actual numbers; the latter are inflated statistical estimates

blogs.scientificamerican.com

And another:

Number Of COVID-19 Deaths Is Based On Actual Reports; Flu Deaths Are Estimates

Influenza and COVID-19 share several commonalities. They both cause respiratory distress. They both can be transmitted via contact and in droplets. And they both kill. The two viruses have drawn […]

www.wpr.org

I was fairly clear on this. Doctors are required, per the CDC, to code deaths as Covid if the person dies of a comorbidity exacerbated BY Covid. So say you have respiratory disease and you catch Covid. Now say your condition worsens because of Covid. Now say you die of respiratory disease because Covid made it worse.

Covid death.

Now pretend it’s 2018 and you have respiratory disease. Now you catch the flu and it gets worse. Now say you die of respiratory disease exacerbated by the flu.

The death is respiratory disease.
Not “the flu”.

Every year there are flu deaths. People catch it, they don’t get treated, they develop pneumonia (or not) and they die. Not because they ALSO had advanced renal failure. Because if they did, and died, Renal failure would be the reason. Not influenza.

Get it?

Those links you shared aren’t applicable to my argument. I’m not comparing the two diseases or the severity of them. I’m comparing the way deaths are coded. There’s a disparity.

 

[-X-]

The bullshit (methane gas) in this thread alone has increased the worlds temperatue by 1 degree.

This non politcal thread is pretty much all political.

This thread draws me into it like a 3 dollar hooker... I can't escape it.

Dammit. I knew that as soon as someone came in and called everyone else’s argument “bullshit” that we’d have to shut it all down. See what you did, killjoy?

Oh wait. That’s not how this works.

Phew. That was a close one.

 

[thirteen28]

This thread draws me into it like a 3 dollar hooker... I can't escape it.

Just how many $3 hookers have you been with? Good lord, even in Barrio Baretto near Subic Bay they were about $12 ... or so I've heard ...

 

[XXXIVwin]

I was fairly clear on this. Doctors are required, per the CDC, to code deaths as Covid if the person dies of a comorbidity exacerbated BY Covid. So say you have respiratory disease and you catch Covid. Now say your condition worsens because of Covid. Now say you die of respiratory disease because Covid made it worse.

Covid death.

Now pretend it’s 2018 and you have respiratory disease. Now you catch the flu and it gets worse. Now say you die of respiratory disease exacerbated by the flu.

The death is respiratory disease.
Not “the flu”.

Every year there are flu deaths. People catch it, they don’t get treated, they develop pneumonia (or not) and they die. Not because they ALSO had advanced renal failure. Because if they did, and died, Renal failure would be the reason. Not influenza.

Get it?

Those links you shared aren’t applicable to my argument. I’m not comparing the two diseases or the severity of them. I’m comparing the way deaths are coded. There’s a disparity.

Yes, I get it. Flu deaths and Covid deaths are indeed coded differently— Covid deaths are counted, and flu deaths are estimated. I didn’t know that before, thanks for pointing it out.

Ya might want to read the links I provided, though. They are absolutely germane to the subject, they address this issue head on. The wpr one, in particular.

 

[-X-]

Ya might want to read the links I provided, though.

You can’t tell me what to do. You’re not my real dad.

 

[12intheBox]

So - who here is going to be getting together w family for Thanksgiving?

 

[-X-]

So - who here is going to be getting together w family for Thanksgiving?

Moi. Under 10 though.
I don’t like that many people.

 

[VegasRam]

I'm not.

I'm getting together with friends. 10-15 of them.
(Man's got to have the courage of his convictions).

 

[12intheBox]

My family called it off - and the strong majority of them have been as in denial about Covid as most of you have.

it saved me from having to be “that guy”.

so this is finally the year for me to start that bratwurst tradition I’ve been thinking about since I was a kid

 

[Mojo Ram]

You’re 10x more likely to die from anything other than Covid, and while most of it is avoidable, nobody stops doing the thing that ultimately causes their demise. Unhealthy eating, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, undue stress, reckless driving, sloth, smoking, gangbanging, and the list goes on.

 

[-X-]

Shaft voice: “You daaamn right.”

 

[Ellard80]

Dammit. I knew that as soon as someone came in and called everyone else’s argument “bullshit” that we’d have to shut it all down. See what you did, killjoy?

Oh wait. That’s not how this works.

Phew. That was a close one.

You think this thread is good for this site?

It reminds me of the stuff i used to read on facebook (until i just stopped looking at it because it was so toxic) - just a bunch of back and forth that doesn't lead anywhere good. Clearly no one is changing their opinion either way.

Which is for the most part pretty harmless when it comes to sports - but with this topic and politics... ugh