Cosell Talks: The Top 5 Wide Receivers

[RamFan503]

Ah. I wondered where this came from. Anyway the Rams WRs are getting steadily better (though I still have doubts about Givens). They're already better than opening day 2011. Don't know what the ceiling is...but they're climbing out of the ashes at WR.

Man I hope I'm wrong (good thing odds would have it that I am) but does Givens feel like Gilyard revisited? I'm not even sure why exactly. I just have had that feeling of a player being oversold ever since he was picked.

 

[Anonymous]

Ah. I wondered where this came from. Anyway the Rams WRs are getting steadily better (though I still have doubts about Givens). They're already better than opening day 2011. Don't know what the ceiling is...but they're climbing out of the ashes at WR.

Man I hope I'm wrong (good thing odds would have it that I am) but does Givens feel like Gilyard revisited? I'm not even sure why exactly. I just have had that feeling of a player being oversold ever since he was picked.

I'm not sure he's Gilyard, exactly, but you probably just meant in general. A 4th rounder who gets a certain amount of hype but also has some issues.

I don't know, frankly. I haven't seen him yet (preseason is coming though). But, of all the Rams draftees, he has the most red flags.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Ah. I wondered where this came from. Anyway the Rams WRs are getting steadily better (though I still have doubts about Givens). They're already better than opening day 2011. Don't know what the ceiling is...but they're climbing out of the ashes at WR.

Man I hope I'm wrong (good thing odds would have it that I am) but does Givens feel like Gilyard revisited? I'm not even sure why exactly. I just have had that feeling of a player being oversold ever since he was picked.

Gilyard's issues seemed to mostly be between the ears. From what I've seen of Givens so far, I don't think he's like Gilyard in that sense. We'll have to wait for preseason though really.

 

[libertadrocks]

Ah. I wondered where this came from. Anyway the Rams WRs are getting steadily better (though I still have doubts about Givens). They're already better than opening day 2011. Don't know what the ceiling is...but they're climbing out of the ashes at WR.

Man I hope I'm wrong (good thing odds would have it that I am) but does Givens feel like Gilyard revisited? I'm not even sure why exactly. I just have had that feeling of a player being oversold ever since he was picked.

Gilyard's issues seemed to mostly be between the ears. From what I've seen of Givens so far, I don't think he's like Gilyard in that sense. We'll have to wait for preseason though really.

I think you could say the same thing about Givens. The questions about his game are mostly derived from his lack of on the field toughness. So a lot of his problems are in his head too IMO. He doenst always show the mental tenacity needed to fight through a physical match up. He struggles with the press and is hesitant when asked to cross the middle. I think he can make the adjustments need to succeed tho. He has the talent.

Gilyard wasnt smart enough or didnt want to put in the time required to play in the NLF.

 

[Anonymous]

Ah. I wondered where this came from. Anyway the Rams WRs are getting steadily better (though I still have doubts about Givens). They're already better than opening day 2011. Don't know what the ceiling is...but they're climbing out of the ashes at WR.

Man I hope I'm wrong (good thing odds would have it that I am) but does Givens feel like Gilyard revisited? I'm not even sure why exactly. I just have had that feeling of a player being oversold ever since he was picked.

Gilyard's issues seemed to mostly be between the ears. From what I've seen of Givens so far, I don't think he's like Gilyard in that sense. We'll have to wait for preseason though really.

I think you could say the same thing about Givens. The questions about his game are mostly derived from his lack of on the field toughness. So a lot of his problems are in his head too IMO. He doenst always show the mental tenacity needed to fight through a physical match up. He struggles with the press and is hesitant when asked to cross the middle. I think he can make the adjustments need to succeed tho. He has the talent.

Gilyard wasnt smart enough or didnt want to put in the time required to play in the NLF.

I posted this elsewhere, a few days back. It's a mix of different stuff, including posters and online draft gurus:

alyoshamucci

I wrote a "P" next to his name . . . short for a derogatory term My Mother started calling him after he jumped out of the way of the ball because it would have meant getting hit by a safety.

If anyone had seen what I saw they would have said the same thing . . . it was a "wtf?" moment. The DB who was going to plaster him actually pulled up . . confused, and tapped him on the shoulder like he was a little girl. It was bad. I dont just mean he flinched, which is bad enough, but he full on pulled his arms in and JUMPED out of the way of the ball.

And its not isolated, I saw him duck out 1 yard short of a first down a few times to avoid contact, not even "fight for it" yards . . just contact.

To have him drafted means that Fisher either didnt see the few plays I saw . . or knows something I dont. Either way I give him the benefit of the doubt . . . Pettis, Salas, Gibby, and DX Have no intentions of giving up their roster spot.

jimitroutboy

Givens is a bit of a diva and pouts in the locker room and on the field when the ball doesn't come his way. He did have a suspension in college for skipping out on study halls repeatedly. Most observers say his talent is obvious but is immature and will point at himself way too much at this stage of his development.

He also has had a problem with getting off the line when he is lined up outside and gets frustrated by jam coverage easily....when that happens his concentration wanders and for want of a better word bitches a lot.

Hmmmmmm....

leafnose

One thing that has stuck in my craw, is the fear of contact that Givens has. I have to say, after listening to Sirius yesterday, there was a lengthy discussion of just how many of these current WRs in the NFL avoid contact. They want to play like they do in practice; No hard hits, no hard bumps, no fierce contention on the ball.

To wit, these guys are always looking to just run their routes with no one harrassing them. More and more, we see a lack of blocking technique.

The real problem for me is exactly what type of player Givens might turn out to be. Failing to fight through bumps, and fear of collision.

Labeling Givens the "Anti-Amendola" isn't a hard stretch. In this offense the number of fly patterns or open area shots called for Givens will be limited.

We'll see on Givens. He's got some tools to work with, but on this team there's not a lot of room for guys expecting to get the clean route.

...

Givens also had some other negatives.

Now granting all the negative stuff could be wrong, and naturally, I am hoping it is wrong.

A sampling of the positives

After watching tape, NFL Films' Greg Cosell believes Wake Forest WR Chris Givens is "just as explosive vertically as Kendall Wright" and has a chance to be a diamond in the rough in this year's draft. Cosell says Givens "played to his speed on almost every snap" while showing "dynamic acceleration on vertical routes." "He went from zero to 60 in a heartbeat," Cosell observed. "... I don't feel Givens should make it out of the second round."

NFL.com's Gil Brandt describes Wake Forest WR Chris Givens as "probably the best route runner" in the 2012 draft class. Givens isn't particularly big or physical, but crisp routes can get a rookie on the field quickly in the NFL. Givens' unofficial forty times at the Combine were 4.37 and 4.40 at 5-foot-11, 198. He has drawn some Mike Wallace comparisons.

Negatives

Note: It's interesting that people said the problem is "maturity." The difference between saying "maturity" and "character" is that the former implies someone can change. Character is character...it tends not to change.

There are a couple of red flag issues here that appear over and over.

Work ethic has been openly questioned by Wake Forest head coach Jim Grobe; reportedly showed up out of shape in 2011 and was limited during preseason workouts as a result. Catches with his body too often, likely a result of his small hands which measured as the second smallest among receivers at the combine. Does a poor job adjusting to the ball; needs to do a better job going up to pluck the ball out the air rather than waiting for it to come to him. Route running is adequate, but doesn’t make enough sharp cuts and relies too much on his pure speed.

Givens is more track star than wide receiver. He clearly has the speed to stretch the field, but he is very raw in other aspects of the game and, given his work ethic, there’s little reason to expect him to develop further at the next level. As a general rule, if a guy doesn’t work hard in college, he’s not going to suddenly develop a work ethic once he starts collecting NFL paychecks.

Weaknesses:

• Short arms, extremely small hands, little frame
• Lacks natural hands and will let balls into body
• Will have to work on refining route running skills
• Struggles to beat a jam at the line of scrimmage
• Soft and isn't very tough, physical or aggressive
• Offers little or nothing when it comes to blocking
• Might have minor character / maturity concerns

Weaknesses
Givens can get jammed at the line of scrimmage when he doesn't ignite a quick jab step or if an explosive corner quickly gets in his face. He often looks over his shoulder and gets alligator arms going across the middle. He is a tough player but far from physical. Givens gives little effort as a blocker in the run game and is only capable of being a decoy or running off his man.

Weaknesses: Hands are good, not great. Will drop some easy balls, and sometimes will body catch. Occasionally fails to high point. Was not overly productive against top competition.

Weaknesses
•Exceptionally small hands (8 1/4 inches) - allows too many passes into his body, resulting in a lot of drops
•Seems to hear footsteps over the middle of the field - leads to a lot of alligator-armed attempts
•Easily jammed at the line of scrimmage by larger cornerbacks
•One-year wonder?

 

[Angry Ram]

But the argument wasn't that having a great receiver makes you a winner. In fact it says nothing at all about the impact of top receivers.

It just went out and said "okay who are the best 5 receivers."

I hope he does a best 5 for every position.

I didn't see where Angry said there was an argument - period. Seemed to me he was just bringing up an observation. It would be like you responding to me with, "The point of the article wasn't that the Rams have one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL." I was just making a statement and I assume you took it as just that.

And you can look at things all sorts of ways but one aspect is that these receivers had to put up big numbers to be on this list. That means that they had someone throwing to them, a line capable of blocking for the QB, etc... In other words, there WERE some other pieces there. As you observed, most of these receivers went high in the draft. So a bad team took the elite receiver instead of building a team. How'd that work out for them?

Yet, there was a whole hell of a lot of griping (not by you that I can recall) over the Rams not going after the "elite" WR in this draft. Instead, the Rams went after more pieces to the puzzle most likely BECAUSE it takes more than that elite "weapon" in order to WIN.

Yeah that's exactly what I meant.

For all the praise these guys get (and again rightly so), their teams haven't been good. Whether it be D or QB or OL or anything else. Yet the Rams will always suck b/c they don't have 1 of these guys.

Yeah - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that even if Quick and Givens hit it big there will still be people (ahem... PD anyone?) whining about not having an "elite" receiver.

Yeah screw wins they need 2 be elite! #pdmentality

But the argument wasn't that having a great receiver makes you a winner. In fact it says nothing at all about the impact of top receivers.

It just went out and said "okay who are the best 5 receivers."

I hope he does a best 5 for every position.

I didn't see where Angry said there was an argument - period. Seemed to me he was just bringing up an observation. It would be like you responding to me with, "The point of the article wasn't that the Rams have one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL." I was just making a statement and I assume you took it as just that.

And you can look at things all sorts of ways but one aspect is that these receivers had to put up big numbers to be on this list. That means that they had someone throwing to them, a line capable of blocking for the QB, etc... In other words, there WERE some other pieces there. As you observed, most of these receivers went high in the draft. So a bad team took the elite receiver instead of building a team. How'd that work out for them?

Yet, there was a whole hell of a lot of griping (not by you that I can recall) over the Rams not going after the "elite" WR in this draft. Instead, the Rams went after more pieces to the puzzle most likely BECAUSE it takes more than that elite "weapon" in order to WIN.

Yeah that's exactly what I meant.

For all the praise these guys get (and again rightly so), their teams haven't been good. Whether it be D or QB or OL or anything else. Yet the Rams will always suck b/c they don't have 1 of these guys.

Ah. I wondered where this came from. Anyway the Rams WRs are getting steadily better (though I still have doubts about Givens). They're already better than opening day 2011. Don't know what the ceiling is...but they're climbing out of the ashes at WR.

Hope you are right.

Side note: Gilyard's disappointment was fueled by that Sports Science crap on BSPN before the draft. Everyone who saw that expected a lot more.

 

[BuiltRamTough]

Wish he was talking about OUR Steve Smith.

Lmao

 

[Lesson]

Gilyard failed due to his inability to learn the playbook. I saw some potential in him, but alas, he didn't work out well for the Rams.