Clemons SHOULD BE our #2

[The Rammer]

IMO, Clemens is the kind of guy who may not do it the "conventional" way, but he just seems to find a way to make a play when he needs to. It is frustrating watching him throughout training camp, "scramble" in a 7 on 7 drill to extend a play, but this is who the guy is. The TD pass was a perfect example of what the guy does. When he was pressed into duty in 2011, that's exactly what he did. Maybe not the prettiest thing to watch, but he finds a way to move the team.

I see a lot of the same qualities in Austin Davis, although he is not as "patient". When he leaves the pocket, its usually to just tuck and run, without looking to extend a play to actually THROW the ball downfield. Which, IMO, is pure inexperience. The bigger concern for me this year, has been his lack of accuracy when he does in fact try to throw the ball. All too often his throws are either behind guys, or just not even in the area for a guy to try to make a play on the throw. Lack of confidence in his reads? Maybe, but he showed more LAST YEAR throughout training camp, and in Preseason games.

Good eye, Coach. Clemens reminds me of a lesser man's Jake the Snake. He's (like you said) going to do whatever he can to get the job done. And it's odd that Austin looked almost entirely different in preseason this year as opposed to last year. I think we all figured he was going to leapfrog Clemens on the depth chart because of the additional year in the system and his (what appeared to be) higher ceiling. This past game doesn't instill a lot of confidence in fans about the prospects behind Bradford, but I'm gonna reserve judgement until I see a couple more of these things under his belt.

Wow Guys a lot of really good posts and thoughts on this subject! This is why I love this site compared to some that Shall Not Be Named! You can state your thoughts and not get blind sided by some guy that thinks he's Vince Lombardi reinvented. Anyways, when I posted this thread it wasn't because I was trashing Davis, I had HUUUUGGGE hopes for him after seeing him last year and was disappointed what I seen Thursday. That being said obviously it's one game and that doesn't mean he'll suck for life but I hope he can get it together these next few weeks and like the idea of Clemons being our 3rd stringer...... however if he puts up a performance like he did against the Browns I'll be pulling for Clemons whole heartedly to be our #2.

 

[-X-]

Anyways, when I posted this thread it wasn't because I was trashing Davis, I had HUUUUGGGE hopes for him after seeing him last year and was disappointed what I seen Thursday.

Yeah, we know that man. I think we were all on the same page there.

 

[Yamahopper]

Weren't we all in UDFA man love with Davis last year? What changed?
Neither back up looked good. Both indecisive and confused. Oline play a just being so vanilla didn't help.
I give them both a 2 on the Keith Null scale.
Thing is this is Bradfords baby, any back up is going to look like a huge drop off since it was built for Sam. If these guys could run it well they would be starting for another team.
If they are ever pressed into duty in the reg. season the offense will change to what they can do well not what Bradford can do well.
Yeah, this a concern big time.
I'm all for drafting a backup next year, but here's the catch, If you want a very small drop off, gonna have to be a high pick. Skins really suck, high pick,.....Bridgewater would be the guy. Still a noticeable step down but he might be able to run it close to Sams level.

 

[The Rammer]

Weren't we all in UDFA man love with Davis last year? What changed?
Neither back up looked good. Both indecisive and confused. Oline play a just being so vanilla didn't help.
I give them both a 2 on the Keith Null scale.
Thing is this is Bradfords baby, any back up is going to look like a huge drop off since it was built for Sam. If these guys could run it well they would be starting for another team.
If they are ever pressed into duty in the reg. season the offense will change to what they can do well not what Bradford can do well.
Yeah, this a concern big time.
I'm all for drafting a backup next year, but here's the catch, If you want a very small drop off, gonna have to be a high pick. Skins really suck, high pick,.....Bridgewater would be the guy. Still a noticeable step down but he might be able to run it close to Sams level.

What changed is he looked like Ass out there Thursday. Like it was his first season, first game, first series. I can say this for myself I think we just expected to see way more from him out there.

 

[Yamahopper]

Weren't we all in UDFA man love with Davis last year? What changed?
Neither back up looked good. Both indecisive and confused. Oline play a just being so vanilla didn't help.
I give them both a 2 on the Keith Null scale.
Thing is this is Bradfords baby, any back up is going to look like a huge drop off since it was built for Sam. If these guys could run it well they would be starting for another team.
If they are ever pressed into duty in the reg. season the offense will change to what they can do well not what Bradford can do well.
Yeah, this a concern big time.
I'm all for drafting a backup next year, but here's the catch, If you want a very small drop off, gonna have to be a high pick. Skins really suck, high pick,.....Bridgewater would be the guy. Still a noticeable step down but he might be able to run it close to Sams level.

What changed is he looked like Ass out there Thursday. Like it was his first season, first game, first series. I can say this for myself I think we just expected to see way more from him out there.

The point is I'm not sure how he got worse after a year. He looked competent at least last preseason. If he played like this last year he wouldn't have made the team.
So what happened, is he have trouble with the offense? Is it nerves? I've seen a couple practices and no he hasn't looked like the same player.
Who knows maybe next game he impresses.
Clemons is Clemons, a very basic game manger that tries to minimize mistakes and that's abot it.

 

[CoachO]

What changed is he looked like Ass out there Thursday. Like it was his first season, first game, first series. I can say this for myself I think we just expected to see way more from him out there.

What you saw on Thursday is what I have been seeing everyday since training camp started. Even more than his indecisiveness, is his lack of accuracy when he does in fact throw the ball. He definitely has taken a step backwards from last year.

But lets not forget, the guy we saw last year was the guy no one had ANY expectations for. He was last years (dare I say it) Thaddeus Lewis. Looked great and exciting (against 3rd units and player who had no chance of playing in the NFL)

 

[biggame1190]

Like I said in my post. Davis played better than is given credit for. Two catches (which were drops) by Quick and Johnson and his drives would have kept going. The Oline had some issues too during his enter. Clemens played ok but the job is long from taken. Davis will win #2.

 

[CoachO]

Like I said in my post. Davis played better than is given credit for. Two catches (which were drops) by Quick and Johnson and his drives would have kept going. The Oline had some issues too during his enter. Clemens played ok but the job is long from taken. Davis will win #2.

BG.... so you aren't concerned by Davis' obvious lack of confidence within this system? His reads are SLOW, and like many young QBs, his first instinct is to tuck and run. The difference between him and Clemens at this stage, is Clemens runs to extend plays, ie. the TD pass to Radway. That was all Clemens, and any HS WR would have scored on that play.

Also, seeing them practice everyday, the other thing that stands out to me about Davis, is his lack of accuracy on what should be simple throws. Whether its from not being confident in "where" he is throwing, or just an overall lack of accuracy, I can't say. But yesterday in practice, during one drill in particular, throwing routes to the WRs WITH NO DEFENSE, he literally threw it at the feet of the receiver. It was on a 10 yard stop route, and he BOUNCED it.

Is this what you want from your backup QB?

Let me make sure I'm clear about this. I am not saying I love the idea of Kellen Clemens being the backup. But at this point, its pretty clear to me, he is the BETTER of the two. Bottom line, the drop off after Bradford is dramatic. regardless of which guy "wins" the job, I will not have a whole lot of confidence in either of them.

 

[albefree69]

CoachO explaining why he doesn't like what he's seeing in Davis:
BG.... so you aren't concerned by Davis' obvious lack of confidence within this system? His reads are SLOW, and like many young QBs, his first instinct is to tuck and run. The difference between him and Clemens at this stage, is Clemens runs to extend plays, ie. the TD pass to Radway. That was all Clemens, and any HS WR would have scored on that play.

Also, seeing them practice everyday, the other thing that stands out to me about Davis, is his lack of accuracy on what should be simple throws. Whether its from not being confident in "where" he is throwing, or just an overall lack of accuracy, I can't say. But yesterday in practice, during one drill in particular, throwing routes to the WRs WITH NO DEFENSE, he literally threw it at the feet of the receiver. It was on a 10 yard stop route, and he BOUNCED it.

I've yet to see him throw a single pass but as I'm reading what you're saying in the first paragraph I'm asking myself a question. Are you describing Kapernoodle, Wilson or Austin? Cause that's exactly what I see them doing. It's also eerily reminiscent of Vick in the early part of his career. The real difference between him and Clemens in this regard is that Clemens knows he wouldn't pick up positive yardage running and Austin thinks he can.

Now the second paragraph does bother me. He MUST do something about his accuracy. Although to be fair, throwing one into the dirt is sooooo normal for every QB. I haven't seen any QB not do that on occasion.

 

[CoachO]

CoachO explaining why he doesn't like what he's seeing in Davis:
BG.... so you aren't concerned by Davis' obvious lack of confidence within this system? His reads are SLOW, and like many young QBs, his first instinct is to tuck and run. The difference between him and Clemens at this stage, is Clemens runs to extend plays, ie. the TD pass to Radway. That was all Clemens, and any HS WR would have scored on that play.

Also, seeing them practice everyday, the other thing that stands out to me about Davis, is his lack of accuracy on what should be simple throws. Whether its from not being confident in "where" he is throwing, or just an overall lack of accuracy, I can't say. But yesterday in practice, during one drill in particular, throwing routes to the WRs WITH NO DEFENSE, he literally threw it at the feet of the receiver. It was on a 10 yard stop route, and he BOUNCED it.

I've yet to see him throw a single pass but as I'm reading what you're saying in the first paragraph I'm asking myself a question. Are you describing Kapernoodle, Wilson or Austin? Cause that's exactly what I see them doing. It's also eerily reminiscent of Vick in the early part of his career. This real difference between him and Clemens in this regard is that Clemens knows he wouldn't pick up positive yardage running and Austin thinks he can.

Now the second paragraph does bother me. He MUST do something about his accuracy. Although to be fair, throwing one into the dirt is sooooo normal for every QB. I haven't seen any QB not do that on occasion.

Ok, I get it, you like Austin Davis, based on what you saw him do last year. I am just telling you what I see from watching him practice everyday. He does NOT look like the same QB that earned a job on the roster last year. If he would have played like this a year ago, no one here would even know his name this year.

And please tell me you are not trying to compare Austin Davis to Wilson, Kaepernick, or Michael Vick.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I'm one of those pushing(hoping) for Davis to win the job. Most of us would probably say the same,but based on the 1st preseason game(which i watched twice),i came away with Clemons as the guy who i would want coming into an emergecy situation on Sundays.

Why? Again, just based on their performance the other night(not training camp) it was clear to me that both QB's were trying to execute behind bad OLine play and subpar weapons on the field...Clemons fought through all that stuff better than Davis IMO. Probably because he's a veteran. Fine.

The bottom line for me is as a backup, when you're thrown into a game situation its because Sam went down and you're going to be dealing with adversity from the get go. It'd be nice if the situation was that we were just ahead by 50 points and Sam could just sit down... :lol: Rarely does that happen anywhere.


This #2 QB battle will likely flip flop from one preseason game to the next. As much as i want Davis to win the job,it comes down to which guy can create something from nothing(which so often is the case late in preseason games),and which guy can show some leadership and grit when things aren't going well.
Again i felt Clemons responded better than Davis the other night.

 

[Pancake]

And please tell me you are not trying to compare Austin Davis to Wilson, Kaepernick, or Michael Vick.

They are similar players. It's a natural comparison IMO. All 4 guys tend to run for it when a play breaks down.

 

[albefree69]

CoachO making a couple of incorrect assumptions:
Ok, I get it, you like Austin Davis, based on what you saw him do last year. I am just telling you what I see from watching him practice everyday. He does NOT look like the same QB that earned a job on the roster last year. If he would have played like this a year ago, no one here would even know his name this year.

And please tell me you are not trying to compare Austin Davis to Wilson, Kaepernick, or Michael Vick.

That would not be a correct assumption. I read your (and others) stuff about him and assume that you're correct in what you're seeing. As I listen to others like biggame talk about him I get the impression that you differ only in degree. Why would I not think he's been sucking bilgewater since the start of training camp? I've yet to hear any posters not saying that. Some haven't been as critical as you but that's just a question of degree. The same can be said of Clemens.

Of course I'm comparing Austin to those other three QBs or I wouldn't have said it. Just don't try and extrapolate the one small area where they exhibit the same characteristics (IMO) to my opinion of their overall levels of competence as a QB or anything else for that matter.

Having said that, here's how I really feel about Austin. I'm worried that he's regressed big time from last years level and he didn't impress me all that much last year either. I do think that he's a better option than Clemens because we know Clemens is not going to get any better and Austin might. He's also much cheaper. Let's face it, if Sam goes down we're toast and as it stands right now, neither one of them is the answer.

 

[CoachO]

CoachO making a couple of incorrect assumptions:
Ok, I get it, you like Austin Davis, based on what you saw him do last year. I am just telling you what I see from watching him practice everyday. He does NOT look like the same QB that earned a job on the roster last year. If he would have played like this a year ago, no one here would even know his name this year.

And please tell me you are not trying to compare Austin Davis to Wilson, Kaepernick, or Michael Vick.

That would not be a correct assumption. I read your (and others) stuff about him and assume that you're correct in what you're seeing. As I listen to others like biggame talk about him I get the impression that you differ only in degree. Why would I not think he's been sucking bilgewater since the start of training camp? I've yet to hear any posters not saying that. Some haven't been as critical as you but that's just a question of degree. The same can be said of Clemens.

Of course I'm comparing Austin to those other three QBs or I wouldn't have said it. Just don't try and extrapolate the one small area where they exhibit the same characteristics (IMO) to my opinion of their overall levels of competence as a QB or anything else for that matter.

Having said that, here's how I really feel about Austin. I'm worried that he's regressed big time from last years level and he didn't impress me all that much last year either. I do think that he's a better option than Clemens because we know Clemens is not going to get any better and Austin might. He's also much cheaper. Let's face it, if Sam goes down we're toast and as it stands right now, neither one of them is the answer.

Fair enough.

 

[Rambitious1]

I'm not so sure yet.

I think the jury is still out on that one.