Can the media dictate who wins elections?

[CGI_Ram]

I am not wanting to turn this into a political debate... Because, this thread will get locked or deleted quickly.

But... I get that Trump is polarizing...

His comments on Mexicans...

Now... His comments on McCain. The media is jumping on his words in a way I find very troubling. Suggesting he disrespected all veterans.

Trump has some issues with McCain, but disrespecting veterans seems like the media is looking to bury him.

 

[DaveFan'51]

I pay no attention to the Libral Biased media at election time! They always have an influence on public opinion!

 

[bluecoconuts]

Trump won't win the invisible primary, so its unlikely he gets the nod.

So far 2016 seems like it is shaping up like 2012 in the sense of the Republican candidates. Theres a few polarizing figures and one pretty obvious choice that people are somewhat warm on. My guess is like 2012 you'll see the discovery, scrutiny and fall. Trump is probably just the first.

Jeb Bush is likely the insider choice (although they might be iffy on the Bush name) and likely gets the Republican nod. Similar to Hillary Clinton being the likely insider choice for the Dems, even though Bernie Sanders is polling high with young persons and is popular among that age.

How that match up shapes up in the general election, who knows.

Its not really the media that'll be Trumps undoing, it'll be the insiders. There is no way they'll let him win, he'd get smoked in a general election because he's polarizing and already pissed off two big demographics. Insiders like the safer bets, ones who can win on the big stage.

 

[OldSchool]

The media has been dictating social and political policy for decades now. They long since stopped being reporters of the news and now just push an agenda.

 

[-X-]

Of course they're looking to bury him. That's what the media does to all candidates when they fuck up. I don't think political affiliation has anything to do with the media's agenda of dominating the headlines with the most provocative storyline they can invent, which in turn is a race to get the most re-tweets. It's a contest between all of the media outlets from blogs to prime time news. Remember when Dean said "YEAHHH!"? That was the end of that "lunatic's" ambitions.

That's just the world we live in now.

And here's a sad commentary. If Trump wins the Presidency, we're pretty much fucked.
And if Hillary wins the Presidency, we're pretty much fucked.

 

[RamzFanz]

X is dead on. It's not bias so much, especially in the more mainstream with less agenda, it's ratings, likes, retweets, and the such.

However, the MSM is being played. I don't think Trump has any real aspirations to the presidency. He's there to clear the minefield.

Trump says unfortunate things about hispanics? Jeb is a contrast in his own spanish speaking tolerance:

"Jeb Bush, whose wife is Mexican and three children were raised to celebrate their bicultural roots, showed a flash of anger on Saturday as he said that he “absolutely” took personal offense when Donald Trump recently described Mexican immigrants coming to the United States as “rapists” and criminals."

Trump attacks McCain's hero status? Jeb is there to be the voice of reason:

"Jeb Bush condemned Donald Trump's attack today on Sen. John McCain, saying "enough with the slanderous attacks.""

Trump is an insider. He is listened to by the conservatives because he parrots the extreme right's media. He will lead the headlines as the extreme we don't want, to pave the way for the tolerant Bush bringing the fringe and the left leaning moderates into the fold as the best available option.

"Since announcing his presidential bid last month, Donald Trump has thrown haymakers at a variety of candidates, but he’s gone after Jeb Bush with particular zeal. He has called the former Florida governor a “total disaster,” has asked “How the hell can you vote for this guy?” and has even gone after Bush’s Mexican-born wife on Twitter."

Jeb Bush girds for debate smackdown with Donald Trump

"Now, those close to his campaign say, Bush, who has taken on the mantle of front-runner, is bracing for the possibility of a presidential debate pile-on — with Trump leading the charge."

Back to the media. They are not controlled or bought and sold outside of the easily manipulated ideological extremes like MSNBC and FOX, they are simply easily led into the storyline the political powers choose. Here is the right's headlines as I see it coming into the debates:

Hate trump, not the tolerant Bush. Wow, Bush is a moderate, Trump is an extreme.

They are simply resetting the line because the media perception of the teaparty set the line too far right. It's the Republican party leading the media horse by the bridle.

The left won't do the same thing to the media. They can't. Obama set a record they can't run from. All moderate and even right with war, guantanamo, economy, and not coming down on banks until this year, riding an exiting agenda of ended wars, gay marriage (he had nothing to do with), legalization of marijana (he had nothing to do with), and freeing prisoners for non-violent extreme sentencing (which everyone agrees with).

Obama leaves no ground for the Democrats to lead the media. They used Clinton in the last election as the same old tired capitulation vs hope and change, which never materialised UNLESS they can claim in the minds of the public that Obama was the force behind gay marriage etc.

I see the Media being huge on Bush or another canidate simply because they aren't Trump.

I don't see Clinton as the heir apparent. WAY too much history that she can't defend. They will lead the media to a new candidate and use Clinton as the whipping horse, again.

The weird thing? Get this people because I'm 50 years old:

In my entire adult voting life, other than when McCain ran against Obama, a Bush or Clinton has been on the ticket, and a Bush or Clinton won. That's media manipulation. That's the two party system. When I had a single chance to legitimately vote 3rd party, I did, and that's how Clinton took power.

No sides here, other than to say the left media like MSNBC is whacky left, the right like FOX is wacky right, and the media is lead by the nose by far smarter people paid vast sums to lead them.

The people follow because it's easy. Anyone who believes FOX or MSNBC are being lead, like a donkey. ALL MSM doesn't lie, and all tell some truth, but the extremes are a joke.

 

[jrry32]

To a degree, they can. In Trump's case, the media are actually helping him by giving him attention. They're treating him like a serious candidate.

And I apologize for the "political" talk but if Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton are the two candidates, you can count me out. I don't vote to vote. I am not voting for that shit. There is no lesser evil. They both suck. I really hope that Bernie Sanders beats out Hillary but I don't think the Democrats will let him.

Say what you will about his politics and leanings but the guy stands for something. You don't see his party's hand shoved up his ass every time his mouth is moving. Or worse, his stance on issues changing each time the audience changes.

 

[LesBaker]

IMO Trump carries little weight with anyone other than the media and they only like him because he is a celebrity with a big mouth and a small filter. I don't know one single person that cares even slightly what he says. Pretty much everyone I come in contact with, on the left and right, thinks he is a cartoonish personality that isn't to be taken seriously.

In fact I would argue that if Trump supported you it could hurt your campaign.

Trump is a blowhard who throws his hat in the ring every election because if he doesn't how else can his face get on camera? Remember this is a guy who is SO delusional that he said he wished he had stayed in the last Presidential race because he would have "easily beaten Obama" (his words not mine)..........even though polls show only about 20% of American take him seriously.

This type of thing is indicative of how low the media has sunk, and how crappy reporting has become. Everyone is racing to the bottom, trying to be entertaining rather than informative.

Like I have said for years. Americans are the least informed and best entertained people in the world.

 

[PA Ram]

Yeah--I just do not truly believe Trump himself is serious about winning this thing. It's all about his ego and getting his product(his name) out there. He's probably more amazed than anyone at his poll numbers.

I'm not a John McCain fan, but that was an idiotic thing to say.

Trump deserves any backlash he gets.

I still think that the Republican nomination will go to Walker or Bush.

I think the Democratic nomination will go to Hillary but I sure am pulling for Bernie.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Well; okay I'll say it. I happen to like Trump. Mostly because I'm pretty bummed at the state of American politics.

We certainly need a new approach.

 

[Zombie Slayer]

How long have democrats and republicans been running this country now? As I see it politics in this country will never change for the better for really any reason short of a public revolt. But our citizens don't care enough so that'll never happen either. I'm turning 30 next month and have voted in every election I've been able to. I've never been more depressed about the state of politics or of this country in general as I am now. I'm genuinely very concerned about our future. I don't think there are nearly enough people who actually care about the people or the wellbeing of this country in politics. Any politician I do like will never have the chance to be president. The media really doesn't help anything either.

 

[CGI_Ram]

How long have democrats and republicans been running this country now? As I see it politics in this country will never change for the better for really any reason short of a public revolt. But our citizens don't care enough so that'll never happen either. I'm turning 30 next month and have voted in every election I've been able to. I've never been more depressed about the state of politics or of this country in general as I am now. I'm genuinely very concerned about our future. I don't think there are nearly enough people who actually care about the people or the wellbeing of this country in politics. Any politician I do like will never have the chance to be president. The media really doesn't help anything either.

I'm with you, Zombie.

Too many politicians care about their position in politics and/or loyalty to their party than doing what's best for the country.

I hope Trump is able to make some noise. He certainly is making the other candidates look like politicians.

 

[Ramhusker]

Whomever ends up being the nomination, you can rest assured it won't be anybody good for the average citizen. It's usually the best fraud available. I don't think Trump wants to be President. Why would he? He already has money and power. His ego will be fulfilled soon and he will drop out. As far as bias in the media, it is nauseatingly so. Different outlets of the media would sell their grandmother in to prostitution to find the story with the angle they'd like to push. Bubble-headed bleach blonde comes on at 5 to air somebody's dirty laundry if it's true or not.

 

[Angry Ram]

Sure media is a part of it, but people running in them are responsible for giving them material.

To me it really skyrocketed since the 2008 elections. Yes we can, Joe the plumber, etc all these little things added up. And the media swooned, especially social media.

Now, I think people in the elections are purposely saying stupid political nonsense trying to get votes and attention.

Donald Trump tho, is making a mockery of it. He's making the elections into a joke. He deserves all the shit he gets, media or not.

 

[Athos]

Well; okay I'll say it. I happen to like Trump. Mostly because I'm pretty bummed at the state of American politics.

We certainly need a new approach.

That's basically saying any change is good change. And it's just not true. You think that meglomaniac gives a shit about the average American? That he could fight his way out of a paper bag in foreign policy?

Yeah. Trump is pure filth.

Sadly, the candidate I want isn't running and likely won't but I do believe in lesser Devils and the lesser evil has never been a republican. Not that true conservative candidates exist anymore and haven't since Eisenhower.

But...to the subject line...yes, to an extent...just look at how many sad Americans believe what they read and hear on Faux News.

 

[Mackeyser]

How long have democrats and republicans been running this country now? As I see it politics in this country will never change for the better for really any reason short of a public revolt. But our citizens don't care enough so that'll never happen either. I'm turning 30 next month and have voted in every election I've been able to. I've never been more depressed about the state of politics or of this country in general as I am now. I'm genuinely very concerned about our future. I don't think there are nearly enough people who actually care about the people or the wellbeing of this country in politics. Any politician I do like will never have the chance to be president. The media really doesn't help anything either.

Well, here's the dilemma.

The founding fathers set up a democracy.

Democracy with checks and balances. However, and this is a BIG however, it REQUIRED a vigilant, vibrant and vociferously involved citizenry.

REQUIRED.

That wasn't a problem in the early days.

It's a problem now.

Democracy can't work when the people don't want to participate. And, frankly, more than HALF of the people in this country do NOT want to participate. They don't want to vote in local elections. They don't want to vote in state elections. They don't want to vote in federal elections. They don't want to partake in civic functions like jury duty.

These are ESSENTIAL functions that are MANDATORY for our system to function and the people don't want to do it. We don't have a system that we contract out. Our government really and truly was designed to be OF, BY and FOR the people. Homegrown. WE, THE PEOPLE are supposed to BE the g0vernment.

So, what this means is that we have exactly the government we deserve because as a whole people we've not done more to change it. When we wanted more, we got more. We've had movements... Abolitionist Movement, Women's Suffrage, the Civil Rights Movement, etc. When we as a people really and truly WANTED something, man... we got it done. We got our butts off the couch and we made it happen and it didn't matter what the danged paper said or what the Mayor said or the Governor said or even the President of the USofA said.

So, we have to ask ourselves a VERY hard question: do we still want democracy?

That may seem like a slam dunk, but I don't think it is. Democracy is BY FAR the hardest of the methods of governance because it relies on the population to essentially govern themselves and requires a constant reinvestment of time and energy as well as having that check and balance so that power does not swing too quickly and that every citizen can be an equal citizen.

Do we still want democracy?

I dunno.

I'm discouraged by the social behaviors which paint for me an answer that does not engender a resounding, "yes". I'm further discouraged by behaviors which lead me to believe that given even the facade of promises of fairness, masses of Americans would abandon democracy if they could be rid of the responsibilities that come with it.

Discouraged? Yes. I can see that. I am as well. But, the candidates are merely the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the problem.

WE are the problem, to speak the plain truth and unless WE fix the problem, our collective situation will only get worse.

 

[Mackeyser]

That's basically saying any change is good change. And it's just not true. You think that meglomaniac gives a crap about the average American? That he could fight his way out of a paper bag in foreign policy?

Yeah. Trump is pure filth.

Sadly, the candidate I want isn't running and likely won't but I do believe in lesser Devils and the lesser evil has never been a republican. Not that true conservative candidates exist anymore and haven't since Eisenhower.

But...to the subject line...yes, to an extent...just look at how many sad Americans believe what they read and hear on Faux News.

Is it safe to say that Intelligent Conservatism died with William F Buckley, Jr?

I wish I could say George Will tried to carry a corner of the mantle, but reading his silliness since WFB passed disabused me of that notion...

 

[BonifayRam]

Can the media dictate who wins elections?
100%

The main stream Media is nothing more than the mouth piece :coach:wing of the left. If the news does not move forward the lefts agenda.....its simply not reported.......

 

[Mackeyser]

believing that "left" and "right" are real is akin to believing that the Matrix is real.

The corporate owned media produces "content".

How that relates to what we knew as news in the past...well, it's complicated.

But the idea that the corporate owned media is "left" or "right" or any of that is just... well, it's not.

It's corporate. It's wherever the MONEY is right that minute. And they've less shame than a crack addict on a 5 day bender...

 

[RamFan503]

And here's a sad commentary. If Trump wins the Presidency, we're pretty much fucked.
And if Hillary wins the Presidency, we're pretty much fucked.

That's a fact Jack.

they only like him because he is a celebrity with a big mouth and a small filter.

Well put.

Now.... not to get too political but can anyone tell me what Bernie Sanders stands for that people who support him like? What is the vision that he brings and the laws he will push for that would be good for this country. Sorry but I really hate the idea of ignoring what someone believes in for the sake of liking that he believes. I always say to look at what the person has done. The one thing that is a pretty good constant is that they will do it again.

A politician will stand strong on the campaign trail. They will say what they "believe" as they know how to garner votes. All you have to look at is what they have tried to pass before or actually been instrumental in getting passed. That is almost all you have for information as to if they are in line with your thinking.

As to Trump and Hillary. Trump is a blow hard clown who wants to show he can fire everyone in America - a serious douche as far as I can see. He is good for one thing and that is to say the shit that no one else will say. Unfortunately for him, it is mostly shit that shouldn't be said regardless.

Hillary will lie about ANYTHING and for some of the most stupid reasons I have ever seen. The idea of that skank becoming President makes me want to puke. She wouldn't be just a bad President but very damaging to this country in a way Obama and GW only dreamed.