Can Jeff Fisher Develop a QB? --ESPN

[LACHAMP46]

Who picked the damned OC?

Tomato...TOE-MATO! LOL....Chicken and egg thing here....Yeah, he did pick the OC's....But I still think Schotty wasn't the problem....QB was...namely a quality backup...

Give Fisher a QB...then I'll say he's overrated too....I think a bunch of these HC's are overrated. But they have a QB...They drafted well...
http://ramblinfan.com/2016/02/02/ca...ly&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email

January 3, 2016; Santa Clara, CA, USA; St. Louis Rams quarterback Case Keenum (17) looks for a receiver during the third quarter against the San Francisco 49ers at Levi


Can Los Angeles Rams Head Coach Jeff Fisher Develop A Quarterback?
by Blaine Grisak

Its been said over and over, and it will continue to be said. The Los Angeles Rams are in need of a quarterback. While Jeff Fisher thought he had his answer in Sam Bradford, due to back to back torn ACL’s the team traded him away for Nick Foles. The Foles trade turned into a disaster as the former Philadelphia Eagles quarterback ended up being benched halfway through the year.

As much as Fisher may not want to admit it as Case Keenum was a couple of plays away from being 5-0, he is not the answer at quarterback. In order for this team to take the next step, they must find their quarterback of the future whether that be in free agency or the draft.

The common agreement is that the Rams should explore their options in the draft whether that be Carson Wentz, Paxton Lynch or Jared Goff. With two second round picks, the Rams have the ammunition to move up and get one of those guys if need be. This could definitely become a scenario if Wentz makes it past the Browns at two.

The problem with drafting a quarterback is, especially in this draft, that quarterback would need developed. With the need at quarterback can Jeff Fisher even develop one? Since Steve McNair with the Tennessee Titans, he hasn’t found someone to quarterback his team and actually progress.

A great example of this is Vince Young. Young was awarded the NFL Rookie of the Year honors for 2006, yet, it has always been said, that because of Fisher, the former Texas star was no longer a starter by the 2008 season and was off the team after the 2010 season.

This was a quarterback that had star potential, yet, after his incredible rookie season in which he had a record of 8–5 as a starter and four of those wins were fourth quarter comebacks. Young was an incredible athlete that essentially Fisher wasted.

Instead Fisher preferred the more controllable and more predictable Kerry Collins who had already played in a Super Bowl with the New York Giants and was nearing the end of his career. There was no developing to be done with Collins, he was a quarterback in his mid-30’s that had signed on the team to be a backup.

Granted, Fisher had success with Collins going 13-3, losing in the divisional round of the playoffs. Collins was nothing special, but he was a prototypical Jeff Fisher quarterback. Someone he probably hoped Nick Foles would be.

Now moving to Los Angeles, formerly St. Louis with the Rams, the same thing could be said. He did run into some bad luck with Sam Bradford, but even still, the only quarterback Fisher drafted was Garrett Gilbert in the sixth round.

The Rams had opportunities to draft decent quarterbacks sooner. They traded away the chance to draft RGIII, they could have drafted Brock Osweiler instead of Isaiah Pead, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, AJ McCarron, the list goes on as to how many non-first round quarterbacks the Rams could have drafted.

Instead we had to suffer through Kellen Clemens, Shaun Hill, and Austin Davis when we could have seen a young drafted quarterback possibly take the reigns of the franchise and run with it.

Gilbert, drafted in the 6th round, wasn’t on the team later that year, and eventually won a Super Bowl with the Patriots. The jury is yet to be decided on Sean Mannion, drafted in the third round, but given Fisher’s history and Mannion’s scouting report suggesting he is Matt Schlub 2.0, he is going to need to be developed. He has similar characteristics to Nick Foles and he wasn’t a first round pick for a reason. In fact, while he was drafted in the third round, he wasn’t projected to be drafted until the 5th or 6th.

After the Bradford experiment ended, Fisher traded for Foles who was going to be the new quarterback of the future and was entering just his fourth year in the league. Snead and Fisher had so much confidence in him that they went as far as extending the newly acquired quarterback. The 26 year old quarterback went from looking like a serviceable starting quarterback to the worst quarterback in the league.

Taking away his ridiculous 2013 season, in Foles’ 15 other gams as a starter he threw for 3,835 yards, 19 touchdowns with 15 interceptions, completed 60.3% of his passes, and on top of that had a 80.3 quarterback rating.

With the Rams, Foles had 2,052 yards, seven touchdowns with ten interceptions, completed just 56.4% of his passes, and had a quarterback rating of 69. That’s a significant drop in production. Is it Fisher’s offense, did the league figure out Foles? In the end, it may have been a little bit of both.

At some point we have to look at Jeff Fisher and wonder how this coach who has been mediocre, average at best throughout his career, continues to keep a job and have the faith of organizations. The Rams need a quarterback more than ever, and to be honest, there isn’t a lot of hope that Fisher will be able to give us one especially when he has already named Keenum next year’s starter.

I put this in here because the writer sounds like a bunch of ROD members....Fisher knows how important the QB position is...he tried to make it work with Sam... I'm sure they looked forward to this draft. I'm also positive Mannion is a backup...

I'm with @Ramfansince79 I think Mannion is being underrated by a lot of people, he reminded me of Drew Breese when I was watching his tape and I think if he was in this year's draft he'd definitely be on people's radar. I would have liked to have seen more of him on the Rams playing field tbh this past season

agree with everything but this...If Mannion was ANY good at all, he would have played a game last year...At least that one game when Keenum was hurt, and Foles looked godawful vs Cinnci.....

 

[shaunpinney]

agree with everything but this...If Mannion was ANY good at all, he would have played a game last year...At least that one game when Keenum was hurt, and Foles looked godawful vs Cinnci.....

True - I'm looking at my glass half-full not half-empty if you know what I mean

 

[bomebadeeda]

Fisher's 21 year record speaks for itself. Most overrated HC in the league. Sigh...

So was Vermiel, (classified by most fans......) until he put it all together. All it takes is one year....to change everything.

 

[Ramlock]

agree with everything but this...If Mannion was ANY good at all, he would have played a game last year...At least that one game when Keenum was hurt, and Foles looked godawful vs Cinnci.....[/QUOTE]


IMO the same reason that Foles regressed, college offenses, is the same reason Mannion did not play.

Mannion may have played in a Pro Style offense but it's grade school compared to Grad school.

Give him another off-season and training camp and let's see what he's got. My knee doesn't jerk!

 

[HitStick]

I just want to point out that Jeff Fisher obviously had McNair, got more out of Kerry Collins than anyone AND had Bradford off to the best start of his career until the ACL thing.

Finding a franchise QB is not as easy as everyone seems to make it out to be. If it were, everyone would have one. Think about how many coaches take over a team and go their entire time with that team trying to find one. Andy Reid had McNabb, and couldn't find anything after him. In fact, if not for Jim Harbaugh, he wouldn't even have a good game manager in Alex Smith right now.

I think the problem with Fisher is that he seems to promote people rather than making a real effort to snag an established coach. There's a lot of learning on the job when it comes to the offensive side of the ball.

 

[FrantikRam]

Nope, he can't. And that's the most troubling thing going forward.

 

[Merlin]

I'm tired of hearing people in the media traipsing his overall record out there like it's some sort of undeniable proof that he's a bad coach. He's not a bad coach. He's not an idiot. The dude dealt with a lot of BS in Houston/Tennessee with good grace and he did win when he had the talent on the field and on his offensive staff. Yeah, he's not perfect, but I'm really getting tired of all the knocks on the guy in the media not to mention the other coaches like Zimmerman who whine like little b!#ch3$ about him and Williams doing the same stuff they do.

That said when the fans here on the board knock him, hey, no prob, it doesn't bother me because I've posted the very same question on this board and I know everyone here bleeds blue and gold. I've beat Fish up plenty of times too. But you know, he's our coach now, and he's a long time Rams fan and there are some good things he's done like winning 7 games with a garbage roster while coaching in the league's best division his first year. Or him still managing to keep this team respectable despite losing his starting QB two years in a row, I mean look what happens to Dallas when Romo goes down. It's not like every team can bounce back from a QB injury, we can say he's accountable for the lack of roster depth but you just don't know what you're going to get past your starter.

Not making excuses for him here, just calling it what it is: he does some things well. It's not a stretch to think that if his OC can step the F up and give him a good, consistent offensive product that he will win a lot of games. So even though I have from time to time wanted to string him up and light him on fire like some others here, at this juncture I am solidly in his corner. I'm willing to allow myself hope that he can get it done this year.

IMO there are some good strong pieces in place to believe this season will be different. There is a chance that Boras can do the job. There is a chance that they can get a QB in here who can give this team some solid production which is all we need to win a lot of games. This team is close, and if Fish doesn't get it done then we'll see a new coach come in here and we'll all start over.

 

[Merlin]

The problem with drafting a quarterback is, especially in this draft, that quarterback would need developed. With the need at quarterback can Jeff Fisher even develop one? Since Steve McNair with the Tennessee Titans, he hasn’t found someone to quarterback his team and actually progress.

The article is correct that a QB drafted needs to be developed. But that does not preclude them from drafting the position. The new stadium opens in 2019. Draft a QB NOW and he will be ready to hit 2019 on all cylinders even if he's a spread offense guy. It makes sense for the Rams as an organization, even if it doesn't make sense for Fisher to save his job.

So IMO there are two elements at work here: who will start this season, and who will be the QBotF.

Fish loves Keenum, but is he willing to bet his job on him? That's his call. He might be. Or would he prefer to try to trade for someone, or sign a FA. But either way, I don't see those options as removing the need to draft a QBotF.

What if Fish wins 9 or 10 games next season and gets into the playoffs and is rewarded with a 3 year extension? If he doesn't draft a QB now he is going to be stuck with a guy who is even more green the longer he puts it off. Why not take the plunge now, when there are three guys and a trade up should be possible to get one of them?

 

[drasconis]

I just want to point out that Jeff Fisher obviously had McNair, got more out of Kerry Collins than anyone

Huh???
I guess you can say Collins made it to the probowl in 2008 - but that was after several others backed out....and more based being on a team that won 13 games.

Collins best years were clearly with the NYG and OAK. His best year with Ten was 2008 and in 16 games he had 2700yrd, 12TD, 7 INT, and a 58.3% completion percentage and a QBR of 80.
In NY his best year was probably 2002 in 16 games 4000yrd, 19TD, 14 INT, 61.5% completion and a QBR of 85.
In OAK his best year was 2005, in 15 games 3750yrds, 20TD, 12INT, 53.5% completion and a QBR of 77.3

 

[JUMAVA68]

In a word. No

 

[HitStick]

Huh???
I guess you can say Collins made it to the probowl in 2008 - but that was after several others backed out....and more based being on a team that won 13 games.

Collins best years were clearly with the NYG and OAK. His best year with Ten was 2008 and in 16 games he had 2700yrd, 12TD, 7 INT, and a 58.3% completion percentage and a QBR of 80.
In NY his best year was probably 2002 in 16 games 4000yrd, 19TD, 14 INT, 61.5% completion and a QBR of 85.
In OAK his best year was 2005, in 15 games 3750yrds, 20TD, 12INT, 53.5% completion and a QBR of 77.3

Putting up huge numbers doesn't necessarily mean that someone is more developed than someone with lesser stats. Troy Aikman only threw 20 or more (23) TDs once in his career, and never once reached 3500 yards in a season.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I'm tired of hearing people in the media traipsing his overall record out there like it's some sort of undeniable proof that he's a bad coach. He's not a bad coach. He's not an idiot. The dude dealt with a lot of BS in Houston/Tennessee with good grace and he did win when he had the talent on the field and on his offensive staff. Yeah, he's not perfect, but I'm really getting tired of all the knocks on the guy in the media not to mention the other coaches like Zimmerman who whine like little b!#ch3$ about him and Williams doing the same stuff they do.

That said when the fans here on the board knock him, hey, no prob, it doesn't bother me because I've posted the very same question on this board and I know everyone here bleeds blue and gold. I've beat Fish up plenty of times too. But you know, he's our coach now, and he's a long time Rams fan and there are some good things he's done like winning 7 games with a garbage roster while coaching in the league's best division his first year. Or him still managing to keep this team respectable despite losing his starting QB two years in a row, I mean look what happens to Dallas when Romo goes down. It's not like every team can bounce back from a QB injury, we can say he's accountable for the lack of roster depth but you just don't know what you're going to get past your starter.

Not making excuses for him here, just calling it what it is: he does some things well. It's not a stretch to think that if his OC can step the F up and give him a good, consistent offensive product that he will win a lot of games. So even though I have from time to time wanted to string him up and light him on fire like some others here, at this juncture I am solidly in his corner. I'm willing to allow myself hope that he can get it done this year.

IMO there are some good strong pieces in place to believe this season will be different. There is a chance that Boras can do the job. There is a chance that they can get a QB in here who can give this team some solid production which is all we need to win a lot of games. This team is close, and if Fish doesn't get it done then we'll see a new coach come in here and we'll all start over.

 

[drasconis]

Putting up huge numbers doesn't necessarily mean that someone is more developed than someone with lesser stats. Troy Aikman only threw 20 or more (23) TDs once in his career, and never once reached 3500 yards in a season.

even more huh????
No one is comparing Collins to Aikman, the question is what was the best point of Collins Career. You stated that JF "got more out of Kerry Collins than anyone"...what are you basing that on?

Collins 2002 stats are far better than his 2008 stats...by EVERY conceivable measure. Worse yet by 2008 the league was full swing into being a passing league, one would think that his stats would have gone up due to that (assuming he was actually better in 2008, which he wasn't)...you can't say he gave up big stats to be more accurate or reduce turnovers, he was less accurate in 2008 his percentage was lower and he threw more INT (so he wasn't protecting the ball better).