Brian Thomas on the board at 19 and Bills calling

[Elmgrovegnome]

Has everyone forgot about Cooper DeJean? I'm not a huge proponent of taking him at #19, but I wonder what the Rams think of him. The kid seems to produce big time, and the Rams could use a stud in the secondary. He might be there at #19 and we know McSnead would pay mightily for a great corner. Especially if the 3 top Edges or the top 2 DT are gone (and Quinyon Mitchell).

DeJean doesn’t look fluid enough to be an outside corner imo. He made up for it with great instincts in college but will that work in the NFL? Could he be used like Kyle Hamilton? If so, he may be worth a late first round pick.

sure for a 3rd round pick, going by analytics makes sense.
For a 1st? The stats are not showing a guy that does in fact make tackles or sack the qb
Gets pressure but can’t get the sack? Consistently?
Verse and Latu statistically blow his numbers away, and show the production of a 1st rounder.
In any event, the argument here has never really been about Chop, it’s more about whether it’s legit to question his lack of actual results.
11.5 sacks in 30 career games surely lends itself to questioning why he’s so highly regarded.
Trusting analytics over that lack of results is a different debate, and frankly not one I’m invested in.

Penn Ssate rotated their pass rushers regularly. Manny Diaz runs a fast paced attack and PSU had some good players to mix into that scheme. But constant penetration/pressure can wear players out. So Chop didn’t play as many snaps. Plus he was injured for 1.5 games.

Finally. Something to chew on. Chop only had 303 snaps. Was Chop more of a situational player? Was he hurt and played less as a result? I’m hungry for info beyond his (dare I say anemic tackles/sacks/qb hits/tfl/ff/fr) 2023 stats.

Exactly. And as @Memphis brought up, he’s nearly the same size and has similar metrics to Byron Young. So his size may not be an issue for Snead. I’m sure he loves his first step.

Chop was the leader of that defense which was top two in the country. He made a huge play against Ohio State before being injured. They had a lot of players making plays with so many people rushing the QB. Abdul Carter, Adisa Isaac, Dani Dennis-Sutton, Amin Vanover, Hakim Beamon, Devon Ellies, Zane Durant and DB Johnny Dixon.

It was a fun defense to watch. I’m going to miss it.

 

[dang]

DeJean doesn’t look fluid enough to be an outside corner imo. He made up for it with great instincts in college but will that work in the NFL? Could he be used like Kyle Hamilton? If so, he may be worth a late first round pick.

Penn Ssate rotated their pass rushers regularly. Manny Diaz runs a fast paced attack and PSU had some good players to mix into that scheme. But constant penetration/pressure can wear players out. So Chop didn’t play as many snaps. Plus he was injured for 1.5 games.

Exactly. And as @Memphis brought up, he’s nearly the same size and has similar metrics to Byron Young. So his size may not be an issue for Snead. I’m sure he loves his first step.

Chop was the leader of that defense which was top two in the country. He made a huge play against Ohio State before being injured. They had a lot of players making plays with so many people rushing the QB. Abdul Carter, Adisa Isaac, Dani Dennis-Sutton, Amin Vanover, Hakim Beamon, Devon Ellies, Zane Durant and DB Johnny Dixon.

It was a fun defense to watch. I’m going to miss it.

Leadership. Check
Twitch. Check
Intelligence. Check
Age. Check
NFL Readiness. Will likely take 1-2 years to acclimate.

Ive put Chop on the dang big board (actually chicken scratch on the back of envelope) as an option should the Rams trade down to R1.28. He won’t be there at R2.52.

 

[Flatlyner]

DeJean doesn’t look fluid enough to be an outside corner imo. He made up for it with great instincts in college but will that work in the NFL? Could he be used like Kyle Hamilton? If so, he may be worth a late first round pick.

Would a Kyle Hamilton like impact/player really only be worth late 1st? I'd argue he's worth at least a mid 1st, perhaps higher. Hamilton was very good on a very good D last year.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Would a Kyle Hamilton like impact/player really only be worth late 1st? I'd argue he's worth at least a mid 1st, perhaps higher. Hamilton was very good on a very good D last year.

Not to mention, Dejean is a fantastic punt returner.

Not my favorite pick for us but would still be a good pick at 19 if he's there.

 

[DzRams]

sure for a 3rd round pick, going by analytics makes sense.
For a 1st? The stats are not showing a guy that does in fact make tackles or sack the qb
Gets pressure but can’t get the sack? Consistently?
Verse and Latu statistically blow his numbers away, and show the production of a 1st rounder.
In any event, the argument here has never really been about Chop, it’s more about whether it’s legit to question his lack of actual results.
11.5 sacks in 30 career games surely lends itself to questioning why he’s so highly regarded.
Trusting analytics over that lack of results is a different debate, and frankly not one I’m invested in.

I definitely agree that it's legit to question his lack of sacks/tackles. It's a concern of mine with him. I also agree that Verse and Latu statistically blow his numbers away. I would add though that Turner doesn't statistically blow his numbers away and he's widely regarded as the EDGE defender that will go off the board first.

My issue is the dismissal of some of his stats. You've been going back and forth with the words "analytics" versus "stats." In an earlier post you said stats are measurable. So if the definition of stats is something that can be measured, hurries are stats. Several high profile coaches, including Belichick, have said that getting pressure on the QB (hurries) is more important than getting sacks. Moving a QB off of his spot is an actual result that can be measured.

Likewise, PRWR is a stat. We can measure how quickly someone defeats their block. Both hurries and PRWR are stats just like sacks/tackles. Right? Basically, I don't know what your definition is or why you are regarding some measurable criteria and disregarding others.

 

[Merlin]

I think he projects more as a Safety given that he's not that fast.

He's fast. Just going off his film there is zero doubt in my mind he can play corner. To me he's one of the safer picks in this draft if you want him as a corner. Not sure what he'd be at safety but if we see him as that then he's round 2 at best (if we take a safety round 2 then Nubin is my huckleberry). So if he goes round 1 he's gonna play corner.

Also his returns ability doesn't factor in for me. I don't want any important player taking returns. Draft a dedicated fucking returner mid to late rounds Les. Do it.

 

[blackbart]

I'll let you go on with the psycho analyzing me and I'll enjoy my absolute favorite time of year.

NFL draft and free agency
Premiere League is down to the last 7 or 8 games of the year depending on the team
NHL is in the same spot
Baseball is just getting going

There is so much sports activity going on how can a sports nerd not enjoy it This is a great time to be a nerd and I'm enjoying the heck out of it!

Actually an edit
Other than just sneezing popcorn all over my monitor it's been a great day. This is gonna be fun to clean up

I can’t believe you left out bowling!! Just had the Masters with 465 people entered, Simo giving JR the double bird and Belmo blowing it in the 10th gor a shot at his 5th Masters title.

 

[OldSchool]

Pff is an opinion
Statistics are at least measurable.
It’s completely fair to evaluate a pass rusher by his sacks & tfl, which are actual stats.
And his stats, or production based on actual stats, is not impressive.
You are the one who referred to that as a myth, but can only counter with PFF which is made up.
Hypocrisy at its finest.

I'll keep that pff is made up in mind. And only sacks and tfl matter. Here so many tout pff as valid evaluation tools I had no idea it was so bad especially with how much people trust it around here.

 

[Merlin]

I can’t believe you left out bowling!! Just had the Masters with 465 people entered, Simo giving JR the double bird and Belmo blowing it in the 10th gor a shot at his 5th Masters title.

 

[blackbart]

Leadership. Check
Twitch. Check
Intelligence. Check
Age. Check
NFL Readiness. Will likely take 1-2 years to acclimate.

Ive put Chop on the dang big board (actually chicken scratch on the back of envelope) as an option should the Rams trade down to R1.28. He won’t be there at R2.52.

Robinson is one of the most fascinating prospects in the 2024 NFL Draft, given his sudden, explosive athleticism off the edge could be the best in the class. Yet, his production (sacks) is below the level you would expect to see. Remember, Danielle Hunter had 4.5 sacks in his college career.

Robinson possesses elite athleticism with the kind of twitch you do not often see from edge pass rushers in college football. While his athleticism did not result in a high sack total, there were many examples where his explosive burst off the ball, speed and bend off the edge overwhelmed the offensive tackle.

Robinson is by no means a finished product and needs to learn the craft of working an OT and stringing together moves and counters. However, his lightning quickness off the ball, combined with his motorcycle lean, balance and body control to flatten his rush path and close with an extra gear to the quarterback, makes him the best in this draft class. He can make an immediate impact as an edge pass rusher in his first NFL season.

Is there a Micah Parsons comparison to be made given that no one knew Parsons was the level of pass rusher he would become with the Cowboys? A strong comparison and somewhat inexact, but the bottom line is Robinson is the most explosive edge pass rusher in the class.

Chop Robinson NFL Draft 2024: Combine Results, Scouting Report For Penn State DE

As the 2024 NFL Draft approaches, Greg Cosell offers an in-depth scouting report on Penn State defensive end Chop Robinson.

www.the33rdteam.com

 

[Memento]

Robinson is one of the most fascinating prospects in the 2024 NFL Draft, given his sudden, explosive athleticism off the edge could be the best in the class. Yet, his production (sacks) is below the level you would expect to see. Remember, Danielle Hunter had 4.5 sacks in his college career.

Robinson possesses elite athleticism with the kind of twitch you do not often see from edge pass rushers in college football. While his athleticism did not result in a high sack total, there were many examples where his explosive burst off the ball, speed and bend off the edge overwhelmed the offensive tackle.

Robinson is by no means a finished product and needs to learn the craft of working an OT and stringing together moves and counters. However, his lightning quickness off the ball, combined with his motorcycle lean, balance and body control to flatten his rush path and close with an extra gear to the quarterback, makes him the best in this draft class. He can make an immediate impact as an edge pass rusher in his first NFL season.

Is there a Micah Parsons comparison to be made given that no one knew Parsons was the level of pass rusher he would become with the Cowboys? A strong comparison and somewhat inexact, but the bottom line is Robinson is the most explosive edge pass rusher in the class.

Chop Robinson NFL Draft 2024: Combine Results, Scouting Report For Penn State DE

As the 2024 NFL Draft approaches, Greg Cosell offers an in-depth scouting report on Penn State defensive end Chop Robinson.

www.the33rdteam.com

If we're taking an unpolished, raw edge, let it be Jalyx Hunt in the fifth. I'm not a fan of Chop Robinson in the first round, even if we trade down.

 

[Flatlyner]

Robinson is one of the most fascinating prospects in the 2024 NFL Draft, given his sudden, explosive athleticism off the edge could be the best in the class. Yet, his production (sacks) is below the level you would expect to see. Remember, Danielle Hunter had 4.5 sacks in his college career.

Robinson possesses elite athleticism with the kind of twitch you do not often see from edge pass rushers in college football. While his athleticism did not result in a high sack total, there were many examples where his explosive burst off the ball, speed and bend off the edge overwhelmed the offensive tackle.

Robinson is by no means a finished product and needs to learn the craft of working an OT and stringing together moves and counters. However, his lightning quickness off the ball, combined with his motorcycle lean, balance and body control to flatten his rush path and close with an extra gear to the quarterback, makes him the best in this draft class. He can make an immediate impact as an edge pass rusher in his first NFL season.

Is there a Micah Parsons comparison to be made given that no one knew Parsons was the level of pass rusher he would become with the Cowboys? A strong comparison and somewhat inexact, but the bottom line is Robinson is the most explosive edge pass rusher in the class.

Chop Robinson NFL Draft 2024: Combine Results, Scouting Report For Penn State DE

As the 2024 NFL Draft approaches, Greg Cosell offers an in-depth scouting report on Penn State defensive end Chop Robinson.

www.the33rdteam.com

Parsons is probably not a good comparison. Parsons was insanely productive in college. Even though its a bit of helmet scouting, I still think Oweh is a fairly similar comps for Chop.

 

[Merlin]

Robinson is one of the most fascinating prospects in the 2024 NFL Draft, given his sudden, explosive athleticism off the edge could be the best in the class. Yet, his production (sacks) is below the level you would expect to see. Remember, Danielle Hunter had 4.5 sacks in his college career.

Robinson possesses elite athleticism with the kind of twitch you do not often see from edge pass rushers in college football. While his athleticism did not result in a high sack total, there were many examples where his explosive burst off the ball, speed and bend off the edge overwhelmed the offensive tackle.

Robinson is by no means a finished product and needs to learn the craft of working an OT and stringing together moves and counters. However, his lightning quickness off the ball, combined with his motorcycle lean, balance and body control to flatten his rush path and close with an extra gear to the quarterback, makes him the best in this draft class. He can make an immediate impact as an edge pass rusher in his first NFL season.

Is there a Micah Parsons comparison to be made given that no one knew Parsons was the level of pass rusher he would become with the Cowboys? A strong comparison and somewhat inexact, but the bottom line is Robinson is the most explosive edge pass rusher in the class.

Chop Robinson NFL Draft 2024: Combine Results, Scouting Report For Penn State DE

As the 2024 NFL Draft approaches, Greg Cosell offers an in-depth scouting report on Penn State defensive end Chop Robinson.

www.the33rdteam.com

It would not surprise me. Edge is a huge need so maybe they decide to roll the dice on the talent and coach him up hard. I am certainly prepared for that.

But Parsons is in a different class I think.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Bills need to completely restock WR room with Diggs trade. Let's say Thomas is on the board at 19. Bills draft at 28. What would it take for you to trade down.

Let's say Murphy, Latu, DeJean and Verse are on the board.

Struggling to come up with a mock draft where those 5 players are still on the board at #19.

Anyway, I wasn't a fan of this idea awhile back, but after listening to Steve Smith talk about the guy, maybe the Rams should just hang up the phone and select Thomas Jr. themselves.

 

[dieterbrock]

Parsons is probably not a good comparison. Parsons was insanely productive in college. Even though it’s a bit of helmet scouting, I still think Oweh is a fairly similar comps for Chop.

Totally agree. Parsons was a middle linebacker who in his final game had 14 tackles while Chop had 15 tackles in his entire final season.
I can see where folks will point to Danielle Hunter as a college comp, as despite low sack production he became a sack machine in the pros. But he also played inside his first 2 seasons, and played end his final season where he had 73 total tackles, 13.5 tfl and was drafted in the 3rd round
That seems to be where Chop belongs 2-3 round due to his potential

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Would a Kyle Hamilton like impact/player really only be worth late 1st? I'd argue he's worth at least a mid 1st, perhaps higher. Hamilton was very good on a very good D last year.

Yes. Hamilton was the 14th pick.

However, I think it is in part about scheme fit. Would the Rams use DeJean in a similar way that the Ravens use Hamilton, despite running a different defense.

It as is sounds like the Rams signed Curl to be in a movable role. So does that mean they aren’t interested in DeJean? In general would they draft a safety in round one?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

He's fast. Just going off his film there is zero doubt in my mind he can play corner. To me he's one of the safer picks in this draft if you want him as a corner. Not sure what he'd be at safety but if we see him as that then he's round 2 at best (if we take a safety round 2 then Nubin is my huckleberry). So if he goes round 1 he's gonna play corner.

Also his returns ability doesn't factor in for me. I don't want any important player taking returns. Draft a dedicated fucking returner mid to late rounds Les. Do it.

What I keep hearing about DeJean being a corner is that he’d most likely have to play in the slot. He’s lacks hip flexibility to play on the outside .

 

[Merlin]

What I keep hearing about DeJean being a corner is that he’d most likely have to play in the slot. He’s lacks hip flexibility to play on the outside .

Well if he's a slot corner then he'll probably slide into round 2. But in his film I don't see anything to worry about. He plays with his head up and is smart, which honestly can trump a lot of things and often does. Thing is he is athletic though. Best compliment I can give him is he's got "easy speed" which is my term for guys who can haul ass without looking like they're running hard. And he plays the ball, great awareness of it in coverage, which is hard to teach. Some guys never learn that.

So I would be completely fine with them taking him at 19 and playing him outside the hash.

 

[blackbart]

Parsons is probably not a good comparison. Parsons was insanely productive in college. Even though its a bit of helmet scouting, I still think Oweh is a fairly similar comps for Chop.

Cosell sets the bar pretty high with the comparison but gives a good evaluation. If the Rams think he has that kind of ceiling, I’d be good with him at 19.

We don’t need to relive the Bobby Wagner draft.

 

[Memphis Ram]