Bradford "wont take" paycut

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Elmgrovegnome

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If Sam is really unwilling to take a paycut, then he is as good as gone...eventually, because next offseason, if Sam has a healthy and successful season, some team will outbid the Rams for his services and with his injury history the Rams are not likely to Franchise tag him.

Can they transition tag him next offseason? Won't they get a first round pick if a team offers him enough money and the Rams don't want to match? If so that is the way to go.

No way I would just release him.

I know it is a business but if you consider how much money Sam has already made and how few games he has played, then it is obvious that he is not worth the big contract that other QBs are getting. And knowing that he already raped the team, he should be willing to sign a prove it deal in good faith. Hell, Kaepernick did that and he isn't even injured. Is Sam just all about more money and Collin is just more about winning? I hate to think that.
 

SaneRamsFan

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The only real information out there is Sam said he was leaving all the business ends of his contract in the hands of his agent (Condon) His agent wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't floating these rumors and creating false interest etc in Sam. The Rams and Sams representatives will come to a fair settlement. Neither side will just sit there and concede to the other. Now I wish someone could come up with a thought provoking football thread.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Thanks.

I don't think any team would be willing to give up two first round picks for Bradford. Which one is it that they sometimes do a sign and trade agreement?
 

Fatbot

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he should be willing to sign a prove it deal in good faith. Hell, Kaepernick did that and he isn't even injured. Is Sam just all about more money and Collin is just more about winning? I hate to think that.
The relationship of "winning" to SB's contract situation is interesting. We fans assume pay cut => more cap space => sign more quality players => win.

But the Rams current cap situation is probably fine without changing SB's cap number. They will get space from trimming the fat or otherwise dealing with the usual list of suspects (Jake Long, Scott Wells, Langford) and could restructure C.Long or others instead of Bradford if they hit a cap emergency.

So the Rams already have the cap space to grab a top free agent, or gather some vet OL depth in free agency. It's more likely that they won't play the free agent market because of the wisdom to build thru the draft, not free agency, rather than cap space scarcity.

Further, any SB "pay cut" (meaning less guarantee traded for earned incentives) would push a big cap hit to 2016. There's a huge list of crucial guys hitting free agency in 2016. If SB's cap hit explodes for 2016, we might not be able to re-sign our own young guys like Brockers, Tru, Quick, JJ...

So "winning" becomes a question of, how much short term impact does a SB pay cut really mean for 2015? For 2016 cap and beyond?

As far as Krapperdouche contract being more about "winning", I think that's totally wrong. The crazy thing about his contract is not any "selfless" cap space savings, but that the team can cut him any year if things go sour and not face the usual dead money hell involved. Any time he's still with the team he carries a large salary cap hit, so he's not sacrificing for the good of the team.

His contract had more to do with his agent sucks ballz and he's a narcissistic moron -- or as overthecap.com put it more softly, "Kaepernick gave up $27 million in full protection. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you are confident in your abilities ... This is a risky move for the player and a big bet on himself." I think we're already seeing how that bet on himself is playing out.
 

Mikey Ram

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In that it's totally blue sky fodder at this point, I would wonder why the Cheatriots would be in any way shape or form interested in trading Sam for Garappolo..He's been working in their system for a while, is a bit younger and hasn't shredded one, let alone 2, ACLs...I really think this kind of stuff is in the air simply because it's the time of year to see who can come up with the most convincing smoke and mirrors dog and pony show...
 

jsimcox

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Jsimcox - I posted somewhere else that I thought we could do a trade for Garappolo for Sam. Don't get me wrong, I love Sam and I think he has the ability, but I have been thinking he (as well as the Rams) need a fresh start. Sam would have a season or two behind Brady to get healthy, and as you mentioned become the heir apparent, the reuniting with Amendola and McD would also work for him and we'd get a healthy keen QB in return...

Cue tirade of abuse ;)
That would definitely be an interesting solution. I think Garoppolo could be a very good QB, I guess the only issue I would have with this suggestion would be that I have already seen a LOT of things that I like from Sam, both on and off the field, whereas with Garoppolo, as much as people seem to like him, how do we know he doesn't end up another Ryan Mallett? He just hasn't shown enough in the NFL to convince me otherwise yet. Unlikely maybe, but would you want to take the chance given we already know that Sam can succeed in the NFL?
I know health is a major concern but if he went somewhere else and had success, I don't know how I would feel about that.
 

Mikey Ram

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I agree that we're probably beating this horse to death, but until some other media type puts some made-up stuff out there to consume our interest this weill be the norm until the draft gets to the real interesting time...(In fact, the horse has probably been dead for a while and the carcass is beginning to compost)...
 

Mikey Ram

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That would definitely be an interesting solution. I think Garoppolo could be a very good QB, I guess the only issue I would have with this suggestion would be that I have already seen a LOT of things that I like from Sam, both on and off the field, whereas with Garoppolo, as much as people seem to like him, how do we know he doesn't end up another Ryan Mallett? He just hasn't shown enough in the NFL to convince me otherwise yet. Unlikely maybe, but would you want to take the chance given we already know that Sam can succeed in the NFL?
I know health is a major concern but if he went somewhere else and had success, I don't know how I would feel about that.

I really agree with this...I know many don't, but I think his health is the ONLY issue with me...In my mind Sam healthy can certainly take the Rams to the playoffs...Just my opinion, of course...
 

jsimcox

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Buffalo or Houston would pay him A LOT more than NE and Sam would be the starter at those places so Sam wouldn't even consider NE.
You're probably right, which is why I said its a remote chance, but still the chance is there.
Given his familiarity with certain members of their organisation and the success* that they have had over the last few years, I don't think it would be that hard of a sell for them to convince him that it would be worth the wait to start.

But as you say, I would imagine money would talk and I can't see them offering anywhere near the same as some of the QB desperate teams out there. It's just the even slight possibility, no matter how remote, that scares me.
 

Memento

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Until I see Bradford or his agent go on record as validating this assertion I will not believe it. Also, your quote..."and actually help our team for once in his freaking life" isn't helping sell your opinion. In fact, this is why I posted my somewhat sarcastic response. I wasn't trying to make an excuse for Bradford as much I was trying to point out how over the top your point was regarding Bradford.
Bradford's time with the Rams goes back to 2010, before Snisher. Between 2010 and 2013, the Rams drafted 5 D-lineman and 3 O-lineman. Of those 3 O-lineman, only Saffold has ever made it to the playing field. They paid some FA's to come to St Louis, but they have been mediocre at best. I also think what you say has been a benefit at receiver is debatable. Quick took a season or two to become effective and reliable. Bailey hardly gets on the field....who's fault is that? Britt was just acquired this past off season and hasn't even played a game yet with Bradford.
I will finish by saying that when Bradford has had reliable receivers, he throws the ball down field. He makes the money he does due to the old system ; not his fault, not the Rams fault. It's just business. If he is asked to restructure and declines, I will not hold it against him. He owes the Rams nothing and vice versa.

Oh, he may not owe the Rams anything, but Snisher and Demoff and Kroenke have defended him for years. Oh, and out of those five defensive linemen? Sims, Quinn, and Brockers were three of them. Not to mention Donald. That team needed help everywhere. The fact that they drafted one receiver in the top ten, signed a former first round pick with arguably the best talent/production we've had since Holt left, drafted Quick with the very first pick in the second round, double-dipped two years in a row with Bailey and Givens, signed Cook to a lucrative four-year deal, drafted Kendricks in the second round, drafted guys like Mason, Stacy, and Pead highly (even though they didn't work out), signed guys like Wells and Long to long-term contracts (even if they didn't work out, it at least showed effort on the front office's part). And you neglect to mention that they drafted a left tackle of the future with the number two overall pick in last year's draft.

It isn't Bradford's fault that he makes money via the old system. It is his fault that he has not restructured that contract to help with our cap, especially since he hasn't played a full season since 2012.

If he declines to restructure, then if we do hold him to his original contract, we could easily lose key players like Brockers, three other starters on defense (Jenkins, Johnson, and Barron), one of our cogs on the defensive line (Hayes), a starting receiver (Quick), our number two running back (Cunningham), and a key special teams player and backup (Bates). And that's just talking about unrestricted free agency. We would likely have to cut players as well to keep Bradford on board with his current contract. If he declines to restructure, then I will happily trade him to a team in the AFC, against his wishes. After all, it's only business.

wow.

relax man. go outside and take a few deep breaths of fresh air.

nobody knows what is true and what is false. if you're relying on the clowns from the media to peddle rumours for information best of luck to you. i'll wait until i see some real news. even then i won't get worked up like that.

.

If you see real news about Bradford refusing to restructure, why wouldn't you be absolutely furious? He is sticking it to our team while holding us in a barrel with a shotgun over our heads. I find that incredibly insulting after everything this team has done to publicly support him.

To take and drastically alter a quote from Tyrion Lannister in GoT in the fourth season? I will not go into this season with Bradford as my only option at quarterback, and I know that this team will not make the playoffs with an injured starting quarterback, so I will let the front office decide our fate. ...I demand a trade.
 
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HometownBoy

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If you see real news about Bradford refusing to restructure, why wouldn't you be absolutely furious? He is sticking it to our team while holding us in a barrel with a shotgun over our heads. I find that incredibly insulting after everything this team has done to publicly support him.

To take and drastically alter a quote from Tyrion Lannister in GoT in the fourth season? I will not go into this season with Bradford as my only option at quarterback, and I know that this team will not make the playoffs with an injured starting quarterback, so I will let the front office decide our fate. ...I demand a trade.

Yeah, IF we see real news of Bradford not wanting to take a paycut.

You're already talking like it's a done deal, the only thing Sam's camp has actually said is that he's leaving the talk up to his agent. Nothing more, nothing less, everything else is filler that bored pundits have made up on their own.

What's the point of getting furious at a rumor that has all the same validity of if I walked up to you and told you that Bradford has read our forum and personally hates you the most?
 

Memento

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Yeah, IF we see real news of Bradford not wanting to take a paycut.

You're already talking like it's a done deal, the only thing Sam's camp has actually said is that he's leaving the talk up to his agent. Nothing more, nothing less, everything else is filler that bored pundits have made up on their own.

What's the point of getting furious at a rumor that has all the same validity of if I walked up to you and told you that Bradford has read our forum and personally hates you the most?

Haters gonna hate. :D
 

Fatbot

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It isn't Bradford's fault that he makes money via the old system. It is his fault that he has not restructured that contract to help with our cap, especially since he hasn't played a full season since 2012.
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't recall any mentions of "The Rams could have had x player if only Bradford's cap number wasn't so high". I'm not sure what kind of help you expected. Unless you are talking about him simply saying "I made too much money for being hurt so much so I'll give back $10 million" -- which is a fantasy -- then there's not much other "help" he could have done.

When a player helps make salary cap room, it's simply delaying the cap hit. The piper eventually has to be paid, at some point the team has to absorb the cap hit at a larger amount later on down the line. In recent years the Rams didn't mortgage their future on restructuring Bradford because he's too much of an injury risk, had nothing to do with SB wanting to help or not.

If he declines to restructure, then if we do hold him to his original contract, we could easily lose key players like Brockers, three other starters on defense (Jenkins, Johnson, and Barron), one of our cogs on the defensive line (Hayes), a starting receiver (Quick), our number two running back (Cunningham), and a key special teams player and backup (Bates). And that's just talking about unrestricted free agency. We would likely have to cut players as well to keep Bradford on board with his current contract.

I don't follow this at all. SB has no cap hit for 2016 and beyond so those future contracts are fine; if anything not having a cap commitment to SB will make it easier to sign more of those guys.

If you are talking about extension talks entered into during this season, again maybe i'm ignorant but I don't think that's ever a big problem. Somehow they would be able to meet the cap while getting extensions done with creative contract language.

If you see real news about Bradford refusing to restructure, why wouldn't you be absolutely furious. He is sticking it to our team while holding us in a barrel with a shotgun over our heads. I find that incredibly insulting after everything this team has done to publicly support him.

I just don't see it as he's sticking it to the team I guess. I can envision a worse scenario if he "helps" the current cap. Imagine he converts his entire 2015 salary to incentives so his cap hit is like $5mil for 2015, frees up $10+ million of cap space. He then leads the team to playoffs, earning $15 million in incentives. Then he signs as a free agent for some other team in 2016. That's $15million dead money on our 2016 cap. Which is sticking it to the team worse, his $16million of cap now or possible dead money in the future?
 

Zaphod

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What scares me the most about the possibility of Sam being cut, as remote as that chance may be (I think the Rams, right or wrong, would go into the season with Sam on his current contract) is that I have a horrible feeling he would be picked up by New England as Brady's heir apparent. I know they already have Garoppolo, and there are a lot of people that are very high on him, but Sam would fit as a perfect replacement IMO.

Similar style to Brady in that he works well from behind a good O-line, and is seen as an accurate passer. Likes throwing to his slot receivers and TE's and he would have all of those things in NE.
Not to mention being re-united with Amendola and Josh McDaniels, so he would already know the offense.
The comfort of knowing he wouldn't be rushed into starting again right away so he could let the knee heal properly.
It would all make sense in my mind at least, in a horrible, twisted kind of way.

Can you imagine Sam going to NE, and taking them to a SB? I don't think my heart could take it...
So basically, FO, please don't cut Sam.

DISCLAIMER: I am fully aware that I have a much higher opinion of Sam's abilities than a lot of people around here, so please don't shout at me :p
It's an interesting thought and I would agree with everything you said ... except for his knee.

No matter how good NE's line is, he'll get hit.

So I kind of wonder if he'd have they would seriously want to invest in him, for the dollars he makes to back up Brady.
 
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Mikey Ram

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Yeah, IF we see real news of Bradford not wanting to take a paycut.

You're already talking like it's a done deal, the only thing Sam's camp has actually said is that he's leaving the talk up to his agent. Nothing more, nothing less, everything else is filler that bored pundits have made up on their own.

What's the point of getting furious at a rumor that has all the same validity of if I walked up to you and told you that Bradford has read our forum and personally hates you the most?

I'd be pretty damned upset at that news !!!!