BPA

[Limey]

Both Donald and Gurley were "luxury picks" for 2 of the few areas of the team that we thought were strengths going into their respective drafts, and both picks got a certain amount of criticism at the time because of the holes we still had. I doubt if many on here would change either pick. I certainly wouldn't. I hope that next year we are picking very late in the first round, but wherever we pick, I hope we draft the BPA.

 

[jjab360]

Those two picks changed the entire direction of this franchise.

 

[ztoben]

1st round should almost always be BPA. If you draft you fill a position in the 1st you usually end up over reaching and getting someone that doesn't live up to expectations. There are obvious exceptions, but this seems to be the case most of the time.

Very happy with Donald and Gurley so far. I love what this front office has done for our team.

 

[Ram_Rally]

Gurley wasn't a luxury pick to a lot of posters. Just like Stacy, mason left so much to be desired as a back. I remember being okay with the Donald pick because we had an extra lol. Glad Donald far exceeded my excitement.

 

[Alan]

Limey remembering differently:
Both Donald and Gurley were "luxury picks" for 2 of the few areas of the team that we thought were strengths going into their respective drafts, and both picks got a certain amount of criticism at the time because of the holes we still had. I doubt if many on here would change either pick. I certainly wouldn't. I hope that next year we are picking very late in the first round, but wherever we pick, I hope we draft the BPA.

I'll just make a few comments about this Limey.

I don't remember anyone complaining about the Donald pick. My memories of the reaction to that pick are subdued euphoria. Not so subdued with some people. Many of us discussed this possibility when we were doing our mock draft and the consensus was almost unanimous in wanting to draft him if he fell to us. Not with our first pick as we all wanted to draft one of the top LTs (not BPA IMO).

As for the Gurly pick, I was probably the most vocal in my dislike of the pick among the small group who shared my viewpoint. My view has not changed in the slightest. Our biggest needs were all associated with the the O-line and guess what, we have the worst offense in the NFL and that's with Gurley. So clearly my concerns in this area were well justified and also clearly, not addressed sufficiently. Though of course it's still early and the O-line players we drafted after Gurley might develop into decent starters. As of now however, they, as a group, need to improve greatly just to become mediocre.

More importantly though, is my primary and tertiary reasons for not liking the Gurley pick. At no time did I contend that Gurley, were he to remain healthy, would not be a great RB. I saw the same things everyone else saw in his college career. My primary reason for not liking the pick had everything to do with my fears he would not remain healthy. Excuse me if I remain unimpressed with the fact he has gone a whole 3 1/2 games without re-injuring either the same knee or his other knee. Both of those knees are still at a high risk, as the data I provided made very clear. The increased chance of injury (due to their small stature) is also one of primary reasons I had no confidence in the Gaines and Joyner picks (even though I wanted us to draft Joyner due to the fact I felt he was the best FS/CB option left). Where is Gaines right now? Why do many of us feel so happy we were able to trade SB for good value even though we all felt he had a good future in the NFL based on skill level alone?

The tertiary reason for me not liking the pick was due to my perception that we had good options at the RB position already on our team. I still think that. How many teams in the NFL successfully rely upon a Gurley/Lynch/Peterson on offense to win? The Shehags? We have had the benefit of three great games by Gurley and yet we still have the worst offense in the NFL and while we probably wouldn't have won any of those games without him, it was our Defense that won those games IMO. The RB position has been devalued for very good reasons.

More importantly though, your post is the result of hindsight. It was a risky move that may or may not work out for us. If I had to do it over again I would still not have drafted him. Or at least tried to trade down first and try to get him later. I hope that in future drafts we will draft the BPA available at a position of need unless a low risk (no injury history) gem like Donald drops in our lap.

 

[Ballhawk]

You have a problem with drafting Gaines with a late round pick?

 

[Athos]

Damn.

@Alan still frosty about the Todd pick.

What exactly was left as far as lineman as concerned?

Sorry dude. Not a lineman left on the board worth the tenth overall.

 

[OntarioRam]

If the best player available when the Rams pick in 2016 is a RB, do any of us really want the Rams to select him? We already have Gurley on the roster. The dude might be the best RB in the NFL already. Let alone as he gets more experience.

It's always circumstantial. Generally, BPA is a fine strategy. Particularly when gems like Gurley and Donald fall into your lap. But I would never follow it blindly.

 

[F. Mulder]

I'll be fine with the BPA WR orr TE next year

 

[RamFan503]

As for the Gurly pick, I was probably the most vocal in my dislike of the pick among the small group who shared my viewpoint. My view has not changed in the slightest. Our biggest needs were all associated with the the O-line and guess what, we have the worst offense in the NFL and that's with Gurley. So clearly my concerns in this area were well justified and also clearly, not addressed sufficiently. Though of course it's still early and the O-line players we drafted after Gurley might develop into decent starters. As of now however, they, as a group, need to improve greatly just to become mediocre.

Off the top of your head Alan - what O-lineman would you have taken with that pick? You can say you would have traded up or down but Snead is famous for that and by all accounts was getting not takers at #10. I remember talk of them trying to trade that pick. So that pretty much leaves us with any O-lineman after Flowers. I think I'll take Gurley in a run away.

I admit I was surprised by the pick, but RB talent like that is not something you are in a position to and get a chance to draft very often.

And plenty of people complained about the Donald pick. Not @jrry32 of course. I think he carried a picture of him in a locket around his neck.

@Alan still frosty about the Todd pick.

What exactly was left as far as lineman as concerned?

Sorry dude. Not a lineman left on the board worth the tenth overall.

This^^^

 

[RamFan503]

If the best player available when the Rams pick in 2016 is a RB, do any of us really want the Rams to select him? We already have Gurley on the roster. The dude might be the best RB in the NFL already. Let alone as he gets more experience.

It's always circumstantial. Generally, BPA is a fine strategy. Particularly when gems like Gurley and Donald fall into your lap. But I would never follow it blindly.

Short answer - no. Probably not going to be the case this year though. What RB that is that good is going to fall to #32?

 

[GabesHorn]

I'll just make a few comments about this Limey.

I don't remember anyone complaining about the Donald pick. My memories of the reaction to that pick are subdued euphoria. Not so subdued with some people. Many of us discussed this possibility when we were doing our mock draft and the consensus was almost unanimous in wanting to draft him if he fell to us. Not with our first pick as we all wanted to draft one of the top LTs (not BPA IMO).

As for the Gurly pick, I was probably the most vocal in my dislike of the pick among the small group who shared my viewpoint. My view has not changed in the slightest. Our biggest needs were all associated with the the O-line and guess what, we have the worst offense in the NFL and that's with Gurley. So clearly my concerns in this area were well justified and also clearly, not addressed sufficiently. Though of course it's still early and the O-line players we drafted after Gurley might develop into decent starters. As of now however, they, as a group, need to improve greatly just to become mediocre.

More importantly though, is my primary and tertiary reasons for not liking the Gurley pick. At no time did I contend that Gurley, were he to remain healthy, would not be a great RB. I saw the same things everyone else saw in his college career. My primary reason for not liking the pick had everything to do with my fears he would not remain healthy. Excuse me if I remain unimpressed with the fact he has gone a whole 3 1/2 games without re-injuring either the same knee or his other knee. Both of those knees are still at a high risk, as the data I provided made very clear. The increased chance of injury (due to their small stature) is also one of primary reasons I had no confidence in the Gaines and Joyner picks (even though I wanted us to draft Joyner due to the fact I felt he was the best FS/CB option left). Where is Gaines right now? Why do many of us feel so happy we were able to trade SB for good value even though we all felt he had a good future in the NFL based on skill level alone?

The tertiary reason for me not liking the pick was due to my perception that we had good options at the RB position already on our team. I still think that. How many teams in the NFL successfully rely upon a Gurley/Lynch/Peterson on offense to win? The Shehags? We have had the benefit of three great games by Gurley and yet we still have the worst offense in the NFL and while we probably wouldn't have won any of those games without him, it was our Defense that won those games IMO. The RB position has been devalued for very good reasons.

More importantly though, your post is the result of hindsight. It was a risky move that may or may not work out for us. If I had to do it over again I would still not have drafted him. Or at least tried to trade down first and try to get him later. I hope that in future drafts we will draft the BPA available at a position of need unless a low risk (no injury history) gem like Donald drops in our lap.

ME:::::
Alan Everyone here LOVES you to death. you are The BEST. Would'nt wanna be here with out you and I still want your Pick-em trophy. (Think I took a step up this week.)......BUT........ My DEAD Grandmother would have seen how RIDICULOUS Todd Gurley was as a Freshman at the Geargia bulldogs. I see every SEC game here at FSU Florida right dead center of SEC World.

You have lost your draftnik man card for not seeing and knowing this past trackstar/Hurdler Champion headed for Olympics and more Highlights than the GSOT all by himself without much blocking. It continued the next year also. If uninjured Gurley is taken around 4-5 at lowest. Possible trade up. In a year it will be #1 and a STEAL Of EPIC Proportions.

I agree with EVERYTHING you say about our needs but the lack of high OL talent this past season was laughable. Name one success besides a number 5 pick on an OG for the skins who are not as good as the team that beat us. Donald beat that Iowa OL like a drum in that loss. Peat who went to saints #11 is an embarrassment as NEED over BPA. Flowers was an option but giants took him at pick 9. We could NOT Force a NEED OL pick as Fisher only takes OL that play many positions so pure OG's like Tomlinson (Duke) A.J. Cann (South Carolina) were probably not on our board. Both would start over who we have. I could go on about so far horrible returns on this past years OL draft. Expected after 6-7 games THO.

I played 8 years on the OL and I wanted the Penn State OT over the pure ORT Havenstein we took but both he and Jamon Brown from Louisville had 40-50 Consecutive starts with many awards and trying to judge them 6 games into their NFL career is LUDICROUS. I;m purely in Love with them and Cody Wichmann who I see starting in the spot Reynolds is now playing. It was'nt really genious moving Brown again as he had his second poor game after the move yet he has had games this season that showed him as our best OL. Consistancy will be our key. Can we have another Bye week please. If injuries stay away these next 10 TOUGH ASS games will grow these young men and we will be better for it till EVERYONE of their first contracts come due the same year .

This years draft is one of the most AWESOME stacked talent laden drafts I have seen in forever. As the college year goes on I see more cream rising and just pray no injuries to any of these future NFL players. HERE COMES MY SHOCKER STATEMENT Alan. This is NOT our year due to the time this offensive line WILL take and more importantly after HC Jeff Fisher said "Anyone who thinks we need wr help here is out of their minds" I Paraphrase but it said exactly that. Fish was delusional but he had no clue Brian Quicks recovery would take a MAJOR twist. The Balls that would be dropped(lead the league). Our WR's are a HOT MESS. Tavon Austin is lastly a WR and more overall player we haave built offensive Jet Sweep SERIES on him with fakes, throws and all kinds of trickery built off that large set of plays featuring the Threat of Tavon Austin with the ball in his hands with blockers and -SPACE-. Yet TA has some receptions and a beautiful slant crossing pattern for TD in Arizona. Yet we have NEVER seen that successfull play again..

Alan : back to you and your belief we had the running backs that could get the job done. Mason first has missed major to all time from a pre-season hamstring injury to an ankle injury that kept him out of uniform AGAIN. Can you imagine who would run behind this OL??? Even Gurley had almost no yards till his 27 yarder just before halftime. We were 1-9 on 3rd down. We NEEDED a WR picked before the 6th round we would eventually cut. Cook is a QB killer and a total practice player.Shame Needs to be sat down to make a point :deadhorse:.

Just chalk it up to a MAJOR MISS on NOT taking Todd Gurley as he will possibly (with Health) be a HOF. We won't be drafting RB again Alan so you can check that and possibly CB if we CAN sign both JJ &TJ and Barron in FA'cy.

Must have a MAJOR Wide Reciever BREAKOUT in Whiners game or we lose in Minnesota. (Hate Them). We can beat whiners tho if we prepare like its the Super Bowl only.:yess: Doubt we can play with Bengals in their jungle. I mean we let Kirk Cousins have a Pro Bowl Sunday as we stop Aaron Rodgers interception streak with 2 and a fumble and McCown was getting his balls out much quicker than Foles who looked uninspired. McCown actually had AWESOME numbers in completions and NO ONE has mentioned it because he was hurried 18 times hit 7 times sacked twice and just got his ass beat . Yet he completed most everything. This IS NOT GOOD GOING FORWARD with Much Better QB's and teams that will stack up the points. It could go soth any given Sunday till our OL steps up to the mediocre level.

 

[Alan]

Athos digging in:
Damn.

@Alan still frosty about the Todd pick.

What exactly was left as far as lineman as concerned?

Sorry dude. Not a lineman left on the board worth the tenth overall.

You (and @RamFan503) should read my post again since you missed some of what I said and somehow, the way I worded it maybe (?), misconstrued what I did say. I'm not "frosty" about us making that pick. As I said at the time and again in my last post, it was a risky pick IMO that may or may not work out great. As I've said many, many times, there are many ways to skin a cat and many drafting strategies that have been proven to work. That pick was not emblematic of mine.

The part that slipped by you, "Or at least tried to trade down first and try to get him later." wasn't just thrown out there because I like to type. I wanted us to trade down but barring any reasonable offers I'd have taken Andrus Peat. Here's what ESPN had to say about the pick taken only 3 picks later:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft/rounds/_/round/1/year/2015
Andrus Peat
What he brings: He has all the physical tools to be a successful NFL left tackle, with good length and upper-body strength to go with quick feet. He's a very good run-blocker with good power and a quick first step, and he generally shows good recognition skills. We would have liked to have seen more of a nasty side from him at Stanford.

How he fits: Offensive tackle doesn't appear to be a pressing need at first glance, but left tackle Terron Armstead has had some problems staying healthy and Peat is an excellent value at this point. The Saints could also kick Peat or one of their other tackles inside to guard, where they have a pressing need.

We remember that conversation about the Donald pick differently @RamFan503 .

 

[RamFan503]

The part that slipped by you, "Or at least tried to trade down first and try to get him later." wasn't just thrown out there because I like to type. I wanted us to trade down but barring any reasonable offers I'd have taken Andrus Peat. Here's what ESPN had to say about the pick taken only 3 picks later:

You're talking about the Peat that has played so so in the three starts he's been available? I guess we'll see but I didn't think he was worth a high #1 and Snead had said that they had been working the phones on the #10 pick. I'm guessing that if they really liked Peat, they could have traded down for him. If not, then maybe there's a reason.

That move also would have been made under the guise that they were already giving up on Grob at LT as Peat is not considered a fit for moving inside.

I'd rather have a true weapon like Gurley. We've already seen how tiny creases are running lanes for a back like Gurley when they are not for other backs - including those decent other backs we have on the roster.

I love the idea of improving our O-line and always have. I just don't see a lineman like Peat giving us near the upside that Gurley has and will into the future. Haven't wee seen the crap shoot that O-linemen have been? Peat was just not one I would consider a top of the draft player.

We remember that conversation about the Donald pick differently @RamFan503 .

I wasn't referring to you not liking the Donald pick. Just saying there were plenty of people that didn't like that we took the guy when it was supposedly a position of strength already. Hell - until @jrry32 started pounding the table for him, I had no idea who the heck Donald even was. And even after we picked him, I didn't buy into the hype as I thought his size would be a problem in the NFL. So yeah - that plenty kind of included me.

 

[Athos]

Peat blows. Hard. I was a fan..... And then I saw the light. Especially when he showed up to camp way way way out of shape pretty much. That's a cardinal sin and I want no part of that kinda player.

 

[RamFan503]

From another thread "What the Browns Fans were saying....

Individually, the Browns have a top-notch offensive line. Joe Thomascould be a Hall of Famer one day. Joel Bitonio has outstanding potential.Alex Mack is a Pro Bowler and anchor of the line. Joel Greco is a solid guard. Mitchell Schwartz received solid grades six games. Cameron Erving is a stout rookie.

As a unit, however, the offensive line looks awful. The Rams defensive line dominated at the point of attack against the run and swarmed McCown on the edges on passes.

What I take from observations like this is that you can grab top talent along the O-line and it doesn't necessarily translate to coming out of the gates being a good O-line. I think we have some talent on ours and it will take some time to gel. But I don't see us in much worse (if worse at all) shape than several teams that have gone all in on their O-line.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it @Alan :boxing::shooting:

 

[Stel]

If the best player available when the Rams pick in 2016 is a RB, do any of us really want the Rams to select him? We already have Gurley on the roster. The dude might be the best RB in the NFL already. Let alone as he gets more experience.

The reality: Gurley is always one hit from IR.

If a RB is clearly the best player on the board when we pick in 2016, I wouldn't complain if we took him. The remaining RBs become trade material.

 

[Alan]

[QUOTE]GabesHorn with this:
My DEAD Grandmother would have seen how RIDICULOUS Todd Gurley was as a Freshman at the Geargia bulldogs.

You have lost your draftnik man card for not seeing and knowing this past trackstar/Hurdler Champion headed for Olympics and more Highlights than the GSOT all by himself without much blocking.

I agree with EVERYTHING you say about our needs but the lack of high OL talent this past season was laughable. Name one success besides a number 5 pick on an OG for the skins who are not as good as the team that beat us. Donald beat that Iowa OL like a drum in that loss. Peat who went to saints #11 is an embarrassment as NEED over BPA.

Must have a MAJOR Wide Reciever BREAKOUT in Whiners game or we lose in Minnesota. (Hate Them). We can beat whiners tho if we prepare like its the Super Bowl only.:yess: Doubt we can play with Bengals in their jungle. I mean we let Kirk Cousins have a Pro Bowl Sunday as we stop Aaron Rodgers interception streak with 2 and a fumble and McCown was getting his balls out much quicker than Foles who looked uninspired. McCown actually had AWESOME numbers in completions and NO ONE has mentioned it because he was hurried 18 times hit 7 times sacked twice and just got his ass beat . Yet he completed most everything. This IS NOT GOOD GOING FORWARD with Much Better QB's and teams that will stack up the points. It could go soth any given Sunday till our OL steps up to the mediocre level.[/QUOTE]

What I really like and part of the reason I'm here, is the discussions/debates/arguments. Sometimes, just between you and me, I take a position that I don't really favor just to see if I can defend it. Though that's not the case this time. My point here is whenever you disagree with something I write you always say a bunch of nice things about me which makes me blush. When I blush, the blood rushing from my brain always makes me light headed and trust me, I need all the blood swirling around up there that I can get. Anyway, feel free to start out by be saying "You snotty faced piece of parrot droppings" and end with "you stupid git!"

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y


Sorry about your grandmother. Although it's always good have an angel on your side when drafting.

I am in mourning after losing my draftnik card in 2014. I subsequently made a New Year's resolution to never, ever, draft anyone named Jadeveon Clowney again no matter how many times people whose evaluations I trust say he's a can't miss all world player.:headexplosion: Especially if they have an injury history. I agree with you and RamFan503 about the dearth of O-line talent available in the upper half of the first round. That's why I wanted to trade down. I mentioned Peat but that's only in response to "what O-lineman would you have taken with that pick" at #10 if forced. Here's the thing though, I'm not going to use hindsight as a reason why my choice was good or bad. That leads us to what seems to be lost here about what I'm saying. I have a draft philosophy and when you have a draft philosophy you either follow it or, you don't really have a draft philosophy. Like any good strategy or philosophy you should always remain flexible but there are can't miss players in most drafts who don't make it either because of a lack of skill or injury and while I was confident that the player evaluations made by experts such as yourself are good ones, I simply felt that the chance of Gurley suffering another injury and our dire needs on the O-line, needs that were forced upon us by the inaction of Snisher prior to the draft, outweighed the possible gain. Whether Gurley becomes all world or goes down with a career ending *^&%$# my philosophy will remain unchained. Now, if, in hindsight, my drafting strategy proves itself to be less than optimal over a long period of time I'll modify it in whatever way seems most appropriate. Because continued failure is math and I never go against the math.

Going forward, I remain positive about the progress our O-line acquisitions will make whether it's this year or later. Of course I don't really have a choice unless I want to be depressed all the time. I'm actually fairly positive about this year and while I don't think we have any chance to win the SB, I am hopeful we might win the suddenly less than scary NFCW or at the very least have a winning record.

We're all very glad you decided to make the ROD your home BTW.

 

[Alan]

RamFan503 with this:
You're talking about the Peat that has played so so in the three starts he's been available? I guess we'll see but I didn't think he was worth a high #1 and Snead had said that they had been working the phones on the #10 pick. I'm guessing that if they really liked Peat, they could have traded down for him. If not, then maybe there's a reason.

That move also would have been made under the guise that they were already giving up on Grob at LT as Peat is not considered a fit for moving inside.

I'd rather have a true weapon like Gurley. We've already seen how tiny creases are running lanes for a back like Gurley when they are not for other backs - including those decent other backs we have on the roster.

I love the idea of improving our O-line and always have. I just don't see a lineman like Peat giving us near the upside that Gurley has and will into the future. Haven't wee seen the crap shoot that O-linemen have been? Peat was just not one I would consider a top of the draft player.


I wasn't referring to you not liking the Donald pick. Just saying there were plenty of people that didn't like that we took the guy when it was supposedly a position of strength already. Hell - until @jrry32 started pounding the table for him, I had no idea who the heck Donald even was. And even after we picked him, I didn't buy into the hype as I thought his size would be a problem in the NFL. So yeah - that plenty kind of included me.

First of all, take it easy on me cause I've got a head cold and I'm totally baked.

I don't do hindsight and if I did and he had turned out great would that have made you think it was a good decision?

If you read what ESPN said about him "The Saints could also kick Peat or one of their other tackles inside to guard, where they have a pressing need." you can see where I'm going with that.

That's certainly one way to do it. I like watching him run too. He's gooood.

Well, again, that's completely ignoring what I said about why I didn't like the pick. The injury history. But I see why you like the pick and I sure hope he plays for us for a long time.

 

[OntarioRam]

The reality: Gurley is always one hit from IR.

If a RB is clearly the best player on the board when we pick in 2016, I wouldn't complain if we took him. The remaining RBs become trade material.

There aren't enough snaps to have two bell cows, however, and if the plan would be to build Pro Bowl quality depth at all positions the simple answer is that the cap just won't allow for teams to be that stacked. The team is best served to find quality RBs outside the 1st round, that are still good enough to start in this league even if they are a notch below Gurley's prowess. E.g. Tre Mason. At least in my opinion. I'd be pretty furious if we used our first rounder on another RB this year.