Bonsignore: With preseason games upon us, and Aaron Donald’s holdout lingering, what is his end game

[WvuIN02]

Suh money is stupid for anyone at that position, and Suh isnt carrying his teams to championships or playoff wins.

Sorry AD, love ya, but everything has a price.

 

[jrry32]

Suh money is stupid for anyone at that position, and Suh isnt carrying his teams to championships or playoff wins.

Sorry AD, love ya, but everything has a price.

Suh isn't Aaron Donald good. Yet, he helped the Lions reach the playoffs twice in five years and the Dolphins once in two years. The Dolphins had last made the playoffs in 2008 when Suh joined in 2015. The Lions had last made the playoffs in 1999 when Suh joined in 2010.

No player outside a QB carries a team to championship or playoff wins, but elite pass rushers are as valuable as you can get outside of franchise QBs.

It's strikes me as silly to refuse to pay an elite pass rusher because he's not a QB. If we aren't going to pay Donald what he's worth, who can we justify paying?

 

[Loyal]

Suh isn't Aaron Donald good. Yet, he helped the Lions reach the playoffs twice in five years and the Dolphins once in two years. The Dolphins had last made the playoffs in 2008 when Suh joined in 2015. The Lions had last made the playoffs in 1999 when Suh joined in 2010.

No player outside a QB carries a team to championship or playoff wins, but elite pass rushers are as valuable as you can get outside of franchise QBs.

It's strikes me as silly to refuse to pay an elite pass rusher because he's not a QB. If we aren't going to pay Donald what he's worth, who can we justify paying?

I'm pizzed at Donald for holding out this way, but he should get a huge contract. NO ONE IS BETTER at what he does. If the Ram's try to go cheap, which I don't think they will, then I know this organization is not serious about keeping it's own stars nor serious about winning.

 

[Merlin]

It's strikes me as silly to refuse to pay an elite pass rusher because he's not a QB. If we aren't going to pay Donald what he's worth, who can we justify paying?

That's the rub though isn't it? What is he worth?

Suh didn't put those teams into the playoffs single handedly like a QB sometimes does, either. He was a really nice piece, but I'll bet if the Dolphins could go back and not pay him what they did they would.

Donald was dominant and is on a Hall of Fame trajectory. And yet our teams have sucked. Last year's defense couldn't get off the field and was in the teens in points allowed.

Everyone wants to say "Pay AD." But there's a lot more depth to the issue than just that IMO.

 

[WvuIN02]

Suh isn't Aaron Donald good. Yet, he helped the Lions reach the playoffs twice in five years and the Dolphins once in two years. The Dolphins had last made the playoffs in 2008 when Suh joined in 2015. The Lions had last made the playoffs in 1999 when Suh joined in 2010.

No player outside a QB carries a team to championship or playoff wins, but elite pass rushers are as valuable as you can get outside of franchise QBs.

It's strikes me as silly to refuse to pay an elite pass rusher because he's not a QB. If we aren't going to pay Donald what he's worth, who can we justify paying?

Shrug, it strikes me silly to overpay a guy who isn't a QB and is making Tom Brady or elite QB kinds of money. The Dolphins thus far have paid Suh 3.5 million dollars for each sack. Not a quality return on an investment. Its actually laughable.

Go look at the teams competing for Super Bowls.......NE, Pittsburgh, Atlanta etc from last year. No surprise that none of them are taking 19 mil cap hits on those positions. It's absolutely crazy. The teams that are? The Jets with Wilkerson, Eagles with Fletcher Cox, Dareus for the Bills, the list of bad teams goes on and on. Not saying AD isnt worth a hefty pay day, but when you look at the production coming from guys making 5-8 mil a year, I'd take 2-3 of those for my team than 1 guy any day.

Example: Just a few months ago with a new contract D'onta Hightower will be taking close to 1/4 the cap (5.3m) hit a guy like Suh does, and thats why that team continues to win like they do. Hmm, you can have Suh (19mil) or I can have Hightower (5.3m), Julian Edelman(7.4m), and Gronk(6.7m) for the same amount of money. I know where the smart money goes.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Last year's defense couldn't get off the field and was in the teens in points allowed.

It's not his fault the coaches had the corners playing 10 yards off on 3rd and 7. It's not his fault the offense finished dead last the last 2 years.

I'm on ad's side but he has to give something up to get his money early. Maybe the haggling over that is holding things up.

.

 

[jrry32]

Shrug, it strikes me silly to overpay a guy who isn't a QB and is making Tom Brady or elite QB kinds of money. The Dolphins thus far have paid Suh 3.5 million dollars for each sack. Not a quality return on an investment. Its actually laughable.

Suh helped the Dolphins go 10-6 and make the playoffs for the first time since 2008. But go ahead and evaluate ROI using one limited stat.

Paying an elite player elite money isn't an overpay. It's market value. This is just so silly to me. You're basically advocating never paying elite players. That's completely the opposite of sound reasoning. You don't pay huge money to merely good players. Elite players are the ones worth the large price tag.

Go look at the teams competing for Super Bowls.......NE, Pittsburgh, Atlanta etc from last year. No surprise that none of them are taking 19 mil cap hits on those positions. It's absolutely crazy. The teams that are? The Jets with Wilkerson, Eagles with Fletcher Cox, Dareus for the Bills, the list of bad teams goes on and on. Not saying AD isnt worth a hefty pay day, but when you look at the production coming from guys making 5-8 mil a year, I'd take 2-3 of those for my team than 1 guy any day.

Yea, New England, Pittsburgh, and Atlanta aren't paying big money to their top players who aren't QBs. It's not like Pittsburgh gave Antonio Brown $17 million per year. It's not like New England paid big money to Stephon Gilmore (and Darrelle Revis before that). It's not like Atlanta gave Julio Jones a massive contract.

But wait, we both know that they did. The Falcons also just gave a very good but not elite CB, Desmond Trufant, $13.75 million per year. Smart teams retain their top talent.

As the cap goes up, the contracts are going to get bigger. Donald is an elite player. He's arguably the best defensive player in football. Like J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Ndamukong Suh, Richard Sherman, Josh Norman, etc., we're going to end up paying him big money. And if we don't, we're fucking stupid.

You don't pay guys like Ogletree, Barron, Trumaine, etc. at the expense of Aaron Donald. You pay Aaron Donald and then do your best to keep others. Look at Seattle for that model. They paid their elite defenders and did their best to keep what others they could.

Example: Just a few months ago with a new contract D'onta Hightower will be taking close to 1/4 the cap (5.3m) hit a guy like Suh does, and thats why that team continues to win like they do. Hmm, you can have Suh (19mil) or I can have Hightower (5.3m), Julian Edelman(7.4m), and Gronk(6.7m) for the same amount of money. I know where the smart money goes.

Dont'a Hightower is getting paid $8.875 million per year. When you add in Stephon Gilmore, that's $21.875 million between those two players. I'd rather have Aaron Donald and $2 million per year than those two players.

Of course, you neglect to mention that massive contract that New England gave Stephon Gilmore, who isn't even an elite CB.

 

[jrry32]

That's the rub though isn't it? What is he worth?

Somewhere between $19 million and $20 million per year.

Suh didn't put those teams into the playoffs single handedly like a QB sometimes does, either. He was a really nice piece, but I'll bet if the Dolphins could go back and not pay him what they did they would.

I doubt the Dolphins would agree with you on that. They need an impact player like Suh more than they need that cap space.

QBs don't put a team into the playoffs single-handedly either. Look at Drew Brees and the Saints. Brady and Manning are the only two guys whom I think could make that claim, but even then, it's a stretch because football is still a team sport.

No, Suh and Donald don't have the impact of a franchise QB. But franchise QBs aren't getting paid 90% of the cap. You can pay a franchise QB and still have plenty of money left to pay your supporting cast. Luckily, our QB is going to be on a rookie contract for a few more years. That's an even better reason to pay Donald now. If you can't pay an elite player at the second most important position, you aren't doing your job properly.

Donald was dominant and is on a Hall of Fame trajectory. And yet our teams have sucked. Last year's defense couldn't get off the field and was in the teens in points allowed.

Drew Brees, a HOF QB, has led his team to three straight 7-9 records. Why? Shitty defenses. It's not a surprise that Aaron Donald can't lead the Rams to the playoffs when we can't field a competent NFL offense.

The defense was among the top defenses in the NFL until the team gave up over the last 6 or so games. And in the two years prior to that, the defense was top 10 in the NFL in points allowed per drive and points allowed per game. Of course, there wasn't much the defense could do when the offense couldn't score (and managed to cough up pick sixes and fumble sixes like crazy).

Everyone wants to say "Pay AD." But there's a lot more depth to the issue than just that IMO.

There isn't more depth to the issue. Pay the man. He's exactly the type of player you pay. Figure out how to structure the contract to make it work, find the right price, and then pay him.

I'm not saying it's easy. It'll take some time to hammer out the details. But you pay the man what he's worth. He has no business playing for another team.

 

[WvuIN02]

We could go back and forth on this all day, and like every other argument with you, it would be pointless. Paying Donald Suh money (ie QB money) is flat out insanity.

 

[jrry32]

We could go back and forth on this all day, and like every other argument with you, it would be pointless. Paying Donald Suh money (ie QB money) is flat out insanity.

It would be pointless. That's the going rate for a player like Aaron Donald. Von Miller set the market. The salary cap rises each year. That means bigger contracts each year. We'll pay Donald what he deserves. And midway through that deal, there will likely be 3-5 other defenders getting paid more than Donald per year. That's how it goes.

So yes, this argument is pointless. The Rams are going to pay Donald. They know what he's worth. They know how valuable he is. They know how rare he is. Like any other elite player, he's going to get paid his market value. We both know what that is.

The Steelers (your example) made the same hard choice with Antonio Brown. But they recognized what an elite player is worth.

As I stated in the other thread, I will never agree that trading or not paying Donald is the right way to go about it. We've waited too long to get our hands on another HOF caliber talent. We'd be stupid to piss it away.

 

[WvuIN02]

I would trade Donald and the 2m in savings for Antonio Brown as quickly as you could say done deal.

 

[jrry32]

I would trade Donald and the 2m in savings for Antonio Brown as quickly as you could say done deal.

I wouldn't. $2 million is chump change. Donald is 3 years younger and better. He plays a more valuable and impactful position.

I think it's silly to say, "Oh no, we can't pay him $19 million per year, but $17 million per year is perfectly acceptable."

 

[WvuIN02]

It has to do with the position. And the Steelers could afford to pay him because they already have a championship caliber team. The Rams do not, not even close.

Hes arguably the best WR in the NFL, and most importantly he would help the guy you just sold the farm to get at #1.

 

[jrry32]

It has to do with the position. And the Steelers could afford to pay him because they already have a championship caliber team. The Rams do not, not even close.

Hes arguably the best WR in the NFL, and most importantly he would help the guy you just sold the farm to get at #1.

And we're going to build a championship team by getting rid of the best defensive player in football?

Brown would help Goff tremendously but losing Donald would tremendously hurt our defense. With Donald, we have the talent and coaching to have a top 10 defense. Do we have the talent and coaching to have a top 10 offense with Brown? Maybe. That depends on Goff. But if Goff is that good, it will benefit the team more to have a great defense behind him than a great WR.

If anything, the position is exactly why I wouldn't consider the trade. Pass rushers are the second most valuable position in football. WRs aren't that valuable.

Anyways, we simply don't see eye to eye on this one. Agree to disagree. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[WvuIN02]

Agreed. You too bud

 

[shaunpinney]

Does anyone actually know HOW much money AD99 is asking for and how much money the Rams have offered him? I doubt the Rams have gone in cheap...

What irks me is that he is under contract and is not fulfilling that contract by holding out like this. I guess I'm just a little disappointed at the whole situation.

 

[Faceplant]

You don't pay huge money to merely good players.

Tavon and Tru would like a word with you.......

 

[~lyser]

I would think they could afford him considering the QB is on just the second year of his rookie contract. However, considering they could keep him four more years and not bust the cap, maybe that makes more sense? Tough choice, but the Rams are in the drivers seat on this one.

 

[drasconis]

The rams hold all the cards. AD has no leverage whatsoever, literally the rams could make his life a living hell if they wanted to play hardball. 2 more years on his rookie contract then can RFA for 2 more years after that.

I assume you actually mean franchise tag him? Yes he has lost a year of free agency due to hold out, but it is a meaningless year. The rams aren't going to give him a RFA tag, he can then negotiate with another team, yes rams can match maybe, otherwise they only get a first round pick. RFA in reality gives him free agency he wants.

 

[Faceplant]

It would be pointless. That's the going rate for a player like Aaron Donald. Von Miller set the market. The salary cap rises each year. That means bigger contracts each year. We'll pay Donald what he deserves. And midway through that deal, there will likely be 3-5 other defenders getting paid more than Donald per year. That's how it goes.

So yes, this argument is pointless. The Rams are going to pay Donald. They know what he's worth. They know how valuable he is. They know how rare he is. Like any other elite player, he's going to get paid his market value. We both know what that is.

The Steelers (your example) made the same hard choice with Antonio Brown. But they recognized what an elite player is worth.

As I stated in the other thread, I will never agree that trading or not paying Donald is the right way to go about it. We've waited too long to get our hands on another HOF caliber talent. We'd be stupid to tick it away.

The Steelers originally made that offer to Mike Wallace didn't they? As I recall, Wallace tried to play hard ball and the Steelers pulled the $ off the table and asked AB if he wanted it. He did, and the rest is history. Wallace has never been the same since leaving Shittsburg. I think that may have been AB's first contract extension, but still....ya gotta love how the Steelers play the $ game. The sad thing is that I can see AD going back home to that team in PA in an old school, Ram screwing trade. Shades of Bettis.