Bernie: Rams still too short of talent

[Athos]

Some of you are so blinded by your misguided hate of Bernie that you failed to see that he clear as day said he doesn't agree with with all of the evaluations.

...but yeah, Bernie obviously hates the team and doesn't realize how great this 6-10 really is.

Haven't read much Bernie, have ya?

This. I didn't read the article because it's from Bernie. And I have no respect for his football "knowledge"(or lack thereof).

And even his baseball articles, which is the sport he actually knows, are really nothing but click bait meant to antagonize.

 

[blue4]

Bernie is paid to stir the fans with his opinions and get people talking and clicking. Once again, mission accomplished. Bernie is inflammatory often, wrong often, right sometimes, and can be judgmental and condescending. All behavior I've been guilty of when I feel strongly about something, and some names on this board have been guilty of as well. I guess I just don't understand the fuss. Are we mad because he doesn't do like we do when we act like asses and apologize? Or is it jealousy because he gets paid to act like an ass and we have to do it just for fun?
Seems to me this was one of his mild articles where he had a few decent points regarding Quinn's bullshit rating and the team having problems utilizing the draft bonanza we had.

 

[Thordaddy]

Thordaddy with this:
Well if it's true it's true , and I'd call him that in private as well

I don't care what you call him or anyone else in private and it has nothing to do with this conversation. Or at least my part of this conversation.

refering to people as stooping and or having situational ethics is JUST as judgmental and inflammatory,if it offends you then you are free to say so, but IMO the imposition of right and wrong here or to establish a code of ethics is not a single persons pervue.

I didn't refer to anyone as having situational ethics or about anyone stooping to anything. I was referring to your statement that just because Bernie is a jerk it's OK to call him names. It's either OK to call someone else bad names in public or it isn't. If that shoe fits anyone then like all general statements, it is what it is but I'm not ascribing that to anyone per se, I'm just ascribing that to the behavior. I do judge that type of behavior though. As do we all.

Bernie is well known for carrying out vendetta's and ya know sometimes you can't say things better than a good old F U or STFU.

No, I don't know that. That's just an excuse for one's own bad behavior IMO.

FWIW if the mods have a problem with responses here they'll say so, if his articles raise ire among people adequately to disrupt this forum to the vast majority of members I respect their right to ban him or for anyone to boycott the forum of they don't like the decision but there are no ultimate truths here

I'm not talking about what the mods are doing, did or what they might do. I'm talking about each individual poster taking responsibility for their own actions. Many, if not most of the posts in the Demoff thread talked about how it was wrong to resort to name calling and I was merely reminding everyone one of that. Just because Demoff seems to be a stand up guy and many perceive Bernie to be lacking in that department is immaterial to the ethics and principles involved. IMO.

This isn't just about Bernie either. Florio often gets called names too. Basically it's just calling people you don't like names. Disagreeing with them is fine. Stating why you disagree with them is even better. Name calling and other verbal abuse IS NEVER FINE with me.

First of all Al could you see your way to quit shouting ? an old and dear friend was taken to task over using a colored font ,in what he I know well was innocuous on his part because he used it all the time,had for years ,clearly your use is meant to enhance your messages force. Which you don't need to do ,I read all your post and understand, consider and receive your points more if they aren't presented that forcefully.

I placed that emoticon as I did as a joke maybe I should have used blue font.

Bernie has gone as far recently as accusing Stan Kroenke of purposely torturing this fan base by playing his cards in an intelligent manner , that's the behavior he gets called out on , sorry I failed your standards here , but lambasting me for my behavior isn't going to change my stance and maybe if you want to make theses points you should eschew public chastising and say these things in private i. e. PM, yourself .

I take full responsibility for my actions I just don't happen to agree that they go beyond the tenor this board tolerates or should , nor that they constitute something reprehensible .

 

[-X-]

Agree. Everyone would like a superstar with the pick, but the alternative is to get a bust. Anytime you avoid a bust, you've won. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the sentiment of the article, the problem is we didn't get enough stars with the resources we were provided. But it's important to keep in mind that we only got two first round picks and a second. Would people be more satisfied if Snead didn't parlay that into multiple picks and instead just used them as they were? I'm going to venture a guess and say that that too would have been met with criticism.

 

[Sum1]

Haven't read much Bernie, have ya?



And even his baseball articles, which is the sport he actually knows, are really nothing but click bait meant to antagonize.

Read him every day.

I've said it before...the only thing that is a negative on this forum is the ridiculous hatred of Bernie Miklasz.

People act like if he isn't stroking the Rams for good effort he is just on some hate mission for the team.

Good god...I'm as die-hard as everyone else on this forum, but the team has sucked for a long time. We're excited that they are competitive now yet they haven't even gotten to .500...and all injury reasons aside, the team made a jump in year one of Fisher but has gone backwards in record the two following years.

This article specifically Bernie suggests that he doesn't even agree with the evaluations and people are on here making it out like these are his rankings. Further, something that the PFF ratings aren't even showing is that some of these players might be rated average but it doesn't show that a lot of these players are young and ascending. So is it really even outrageous to suggest that maybe guys like Greg Robinson wasn't very good last year but he's still going up?

It's just a childish way to act. And next someone will state that they only name call and bash Bernie's articles because of how his tone is or say he is acting childish...well great job, it surely shows him by stooping to that supposed level doing a drive-by bash post on a forum he isn't even a part of.

Pardon my rant...I just assume "ban" Bernie's columns because some people can't take criticism in stride when it is warranted...can't stand that media members aren't blind optimists...or simply can't admit that our team screws things up at times. Goodness, we're now upset because he wrote a column based on another groups evaluations and even said he doesn't necessarily agree with them?

It'd be one thing if there was legitimate discussion taken from the column...such as, "I disagree that the talent level isn't such and such..." or "Bernie's opinion here is way off base because..."....instead it's, "Bernie is short and fat (which is funny because the guy stands well over 6')..."

 

[-X-]

I agree that sometimes Bernie can be very condescending about the team and its fans when he's dissatisfied with the Organization. And then there are times that he's the biggest homer in the world; but he also uses that as a platform to be very condescending to the fans. So the issue, I guess, is that he's just too condescending. This is just one man's opinion, but I think maybe we should hold ourselves in higher esteem than Bernie holds both himself and us (the fans). If you don't like what he's saying, then destroy his argument. I don't really care for him, but I'd like to think we're above destroying the man ... no matter how much we think he deserves it.

 

[Angry Ram]

Isn't that the norm with most teams tho? I think a lot of fans place unrealistic expectations on 21, 22 year old rookies. They aren't gonna become superstars in a couple seasons.

 

[Alan]

Thordaddy seeing phantoms:
First of all Al could you see your way to quit shouting ? an old and dear friend was taken to task over using a colored font ,in what he I know well was innocuous on his part because he used it all the time,had for years ,clearly your use is meant to enhance your messages force.

If I'm going to answer someone with comments interspersed among the things they are saying I have to make sure what each of us say is clearly differentiated. I can just bold what I say or I can use a different color. If I use a different color I have to bold it too or I have great difficulty in seeing it. I only sometimes use italics because I can no longer read what I've wrote if the letters aren't in nice square block print. Any kind of fancy font is also, for the most part, unreadable for me as is anything written in longhand. That being the case, as I explained in a different post some time ago, I will capitalize all the letters of a word in lieu of italics. For the most part.

I'm not shouting. The exigencies of my condition require me to use these methods.

 

[ram007]

All of this for Bernie writing we could have drafted better? Yeah, the man deserves it. You go team ROD!

 

[Rmfnlt]

I agree that sometimes Bernie can be very condescending about the team and its fans when he's dissatisfied with the Organization. And then there are times that he's the biggest homer in the world; but he also uses that as a platform to be very condescending to the fans. So the issue, I guess, is that he's just too condescending. This is just one man's opinion, but I think maybe we should hold ourselves in higher esteem than Bernie holds both himself and us (the fans). If you don't like what he's saying, then destroy his argument. I don't really care for him, but I'd like to think we're above destroying the man ... no matter how much we think he deserves it.

The first part? I think you can associate that with most fans. When they lose... fans get upset. I know I do.

Food for thought:
Put yourself in Bernie's spot... get in the way-back machine (for those older cartoons fans) to 1995 when the Rams came to town (Bernie's been at the P-D since 1989)...

Try to imagine the first day he wrote something negative about the Rams. I wasn't there, but I'd guess maybe it wasn't nearly as "potent" as it is today... I'm guessing he wasn't all condescending and nasty to fans... just a guess.

Now, after a couple not-so-nasty articles where he's tough on the Rams, fans start getting nasty with him. I've never read his forum but I'm guessing he gets his fair share.

So, after 20 years of covering the Rams - mostly really bad teams - he's written more bad than good (of course he has). As a result, I suspect the negative escalation from fans toward him has increased.

I guess what I'm suggesting might have happened is... it all started off rather civil... the relationship between Bernie and the Rams fans... but - as the team got worse and his columns more critical,- is it possible the fans lashed out pretty hard on him? Afer all, it's thousands of fans vs. one columninst.

Maybe... after getting beaten down by fans for over 10 years, he's "developed" an attitude toward them as whole?

I'm not defending Bernie... I can take him or leave him... but he makes good points from time to time and still gets bashed... then fans wonder why he's condescending.

Maybe it's not that much of a mystery after all.

 

[Thordaddy]

I agree that sometimes Bernie can be very condescending about the team and its fans when he's dissatisfied with the Organization. And then there are times that he's the biggest homer in the world; but he also uses that as a platform to be very condescending to the fans. So the issue, I guess, is that he's just too condescending. This is just one man's opinion, but I think maybe we should hold ourselves in higher esteem than Bernie holds both himself and us (the fans). If you don't like what he's saying, then destroy his argument. I don't really care for him, but I'd like to think we're above destroying the man ... no matter how much we think he deserves it.

I posted on Bernie's boob board enough to know he gets called more names there than here,I don't think the criticism he gets here comes close to destroying him, he plays rough he gets what he gives ,in fact much of what he says is to get the reactions he does.
Yes he is condescending and demands from the Rams "kiss my ring" treatment , let him come here and post unprotected as we do and I'll wager he gets banned and his antagonists don't.
Like I said before I wouldn't vote to ban him but I'm not gonna kiss his ring or any other part of his uh well ,you get the picture . If my input about Bernie is unwelcome as presented then I might be willing to see him banned ,he was before and IMO the forum didn't suffer from it ,he is , in addition, as or more divisive as the Rams moving can be and anyone who wants to read his drivel doesn't have to read it here ,it's available elsewhere.
As long as what he writes is held to the standard we hold our posters to fine but giving him space here behaving the way he does ,HE doesn't deserve to be here IMO,so just by not advocating he be banned IS holding ourselves to a higher standard .
I'll give anyone the last word on this ,but in the end Bernie isn't worth calling each other out over.

 

[RamFan503]

The title should read.

Bernie: I'm too short on talent

 

[-X-]

To whom it may concern:

I just wanted to say my piece. I'm really not inclined to debate it.
I can only control my own actions, so that's what I'm gonna do.

 

[RamBill]

Did the Rams miss an opportunity to draft elite talent? Bernie Miklasz joins Randy Karraker and D’Marco Farr on 101ESPN’s The Fast Lane.
(Bernie Talks Rams at 6:32)

Listen to Bernie Talk Rams Drafts

 

[FrankenRam]

You make a compelling case about many of PFF's rankings and I agree with many of them. However, I wasn't addressing that part of your post, I was addressing the part where you said that Bernie was relying on their rankings to make his point. How do you write about a set of rankings without using the rankings? I don't call that relying on them and furthermore, he specifically said you can throw them out completely and made his own case for why the Ram brain trust has not done a great job with the resources at their disposal. I still think you're misreading him in this article.
Here's what I read:

He publishes their rankings for our players.

He goes out of his way with this to say this about thier rankings: "Of course, this is only PFF's assessment. (Click here to see the chart.) The Rams internally may have different (and better) grades on their players. The same could be said of other independent evaluators — as is always the instance in subjective analyses."

He immediately goes on to say that he disagrees with many of them: "As much as I respect the crew at Pro Football Focus for their excellent and diligent work, I don't agree with all of their opinions. Two quickie examples: I think defensive endRobertQuinn is an elite player — not a "very good" player. I don't see how QB SamBradford can receive an "average" grade when he's missed the last 25 regular-season games. Bradford hasn't played in a real game since Oct. 20 of the 2013 season. So how do we know? "

He then goes on to analyze what he thinks those rankings say about the Rams personnel.

He adds in many of his own stats, not having to do with their evaluations at all, and comes to some conclusions.

He then ends with his final comments that specifically address your concerns about PFF's rankings: "You can quibble over these PFF rankings _ or throw them out completely. It doesn't matter to me. But if you put much stock in these independent Pro Football Focus evaluations, then you'd have to conclude that Snead-Fisher have missed a chance to fully exploit the bonanza of draft picks they had at their disposal over the past three years. There's no doubt that Snead-Fisher have upgraded the Rams roster. They just didn't improve it as much as they should have."

Where is the "laziness"?

I'm with you all the way on the point you've been trying to make. After reading the first page and a half of this thread, one might have thought Bernie had defended Ray Rice or something equally heinous.

IMO, his biggest crime in this article is using the PFF stats at all. That is assuming PFF is the 'ratings' site I think they are...the ones that base all their ratings on a handful of guys watching tape and deciding if player A did what he should have done for each play, and coming up with a grade from that 'analysis'. IMO, that is such a HIGHLY subjective and flawed methodology, I'm stumped anyone would take their ratings even remotely seriously.

 

[FrankenRam]

This isn't just about Bernie either. Florio often gets called names too. Basically it's just calling people you don't like names. Disagreeing with them is fine. Stating why you disagree with them is even better. Name calling and other verbal abuse IS NEVER FINE with me.

Unfortunately, it's become the internet way. Look at what transpired with Curt Schilling's daughter on Twitter recently. It's not good enough for too many people these days to just disagree with someone.....it's become all too common to have to degrade them (to varying degrees) as well.

 

[FrankenRam]

Brockers, Quick, Jenkins, Johnson, Austin, Ogletree, McDonald, Robinson, Donald, Zuerlein, Hekker, Gaines, and Mason are all starters.
Givens, Bailey and Joyner are rotational starters.

So that's 16 players in 3 drafts who see a bunch of playing time - over 80% of whom start in actual NFL games.

Sorry, Bernie, if they're not all elite yet.
And sorry, Bernie, that Spagnuolo/Devaney only left us less than half a dozen players.

Sixteen starters on a 6-10 team. I'm not sure that's something to get terribly excited about.

 

[Thordaddy]

If I'm going to answer someone with comments interspersed among the things they are saying I have to make sure what each of us say is clearly differentiated. I can just bold what I say or I can use a different color. If I use a different color I have to bold it too or I have great difficulty in seeing it. I only sometimes use italics because I can no longer read what I've wrote if the letters aren't in nice square block print. Any kind of fancy font is also, for the most part, unreadable for me as is anything written in longhand. That being the case, as I explained in a different post some time ago, I will capitalize all the letters of a word in lieu of italics. For the most part.

I'm not shouting. The exigencies of my condition require me to use these methods.

Sorry to hear about your vision ,mine is getting worse from all the drugs viruses bacterial infections busted blood vessels too.
FWIW when the entirety of the text is red it comes off as shouting ,maybe you could just differentiate by typing Me: and Thor: ahead of the comments ,but let me say this about the style , I hardly use the interspersed tac because I see it as an effort to destroy in total the other guys argument, not gonna comment on Bernie anymore for this thread except to say we all have strong feelings here , if one isn't willing to take it then they need to refrain from dishing it.

 

[FrankenRam]

While I agree with the basics of this, and you've been around me long enough to know that I don't do the name calling thing, there's a difference between Bernie and Kevin Demoff and how they're treated here.

KD is a member of ROD and part of the Rams staff. Bernie is not. KD is polite. Bernie is not. The snide remarks he makes about Rams fans in almost every one of his articles, leaves him wide open for the type of vitriol he gets. There's a reason his articles were banned here for awhile. The responses created a bad vibe. Maybe it's time to do that again and this time permanently.

I guess I'm fortunate to not have read much Bernie stuff in quite some time. I pretty much quit reading his stuff when I quit buying print media. My Bernie exposure these days comes exclusively from the radio segments I hear him do with The Fast Lane on my way home from work. And I don't recall having heard 'snide remarks' about fans in those.

I'm neither a fan nor a hater of him. Of course, I find it rather bizarre that anyone would find themselves in either category when it comes to sportswriters. But judging by the vitriol in some of the posts in this thread, he must have said some utterly horrendous stuff about fans at some point.