Bernie: Rams fans don't owe Kroenke anything

[Selassie I]

I don't have a particular name to recommend right now, but I do have some thoughts on what would improve the leadership void.

Since Stan is Silent, there needs to be a Man-In-Charge at the Top. A proven football man, not someone from another sport (as rumors have suggested) or worse yet.... someone from the "sport" of Accounting or Practicing Law. Currently there is nobody leading the franchise on a predetermined path.

This new Face of the Franchise needs to be the person to put the rest of the staff in place.

Doing things like hiring a new OC who runs a complex offense, and then requiring him to use the previous OC's assistant coaches (who know NOTHING of the complex offense) is the "Shit on a Shingle" that I speak of. Follow the $ here.

 

[HeiseNBerg]

I've seen some sick conceptual drawings of that stadium, so I don't mind seeing them again - it's cool to look at. I have no horse in this race. If the Rams are rumored to be moving to Florida, then I'll be interested in all this relocation talk. The L.A./St Louis stuff? No offense to anyone else, but I simply don't care either way.

I'm in the same boat as you, X. Northern Delaware is my home, and I'll be a Rams fan wherever they go.

In 1994, I got a little excited when Baltimore was rumored to be in the running for the Rams -- that's only an hour's drive for me. But, alas, it wasn't to be.

 

[tagfeet]

I like so many others suggested on this site am a Rams fan. I am from Southern California and if they stay in St. Louis that's cool with me but if they move to LA even better. I would prefer they move back to LA where they belong. (I never bought any fan appeal that said anything St. Louis)

I like how Bernie said that the Rams were not selling out Playoff games when Dickerson was breaking records....that's funny! I had season tixs through the 80's and it seemed like they were all sell outs to me! Way to go Bernie! I get what you are saying, but don't print lies about the City of LA when they are not true! It just makes Bernie look bad!

 

[Ram Quixote]

I like so many others suggested on this site am a Rams fan. I am from Southern California and if they stay in St. Louis that's cool with me but if they move to LA even better. I would prefer they move back to LA where they belong. (I never bought any fan appeal that said anything St. Louis)

I like how Bernie said that the Rams were not selling out Playoff games when Dickerson was breaking records....that's funny! I had season tixs through the 80's and it seemed like they were all sell outs to me! Way to go Bernie! I get what you are saying, but don't print lies about the City of LA when they are not true! It just makes Bernie look bad!

Sorry, former LA Ram fan here, and in 1984, when Dickerson broke the single season rushing record, the Rams home playoff game against the Giants was not shown on local TV because it did not sell out in time. Perhaps it did by game time.

I'm not one to defend Bernie at all (if he weren't a PD columnist, his opinions would fit perfectly in RamStalk), but I'm sure he's referring to the TV blackout.

 

[Stranger]

I like so many others suggested on this site am a Rams fan. I am from Southern California and if they stay in St. Louis that's cool with me but if they move to LA even better. I would prefer they move back to LA where they belong. (I never bought any fan appeal that said anything St. Louis)

I like how Bernie said that the Rams were not selling out Playoff games when Dickerson was breaking records....that's funny! I had season tixs through the 80's and it seemed like they were all sell outs to me! Way to go Bernie! I get what you are saying, but don't print lies about the City of LA when they are not true! It just makes Bernie look bad!

Sorry, former LA Ram fan here, and in 1984, when Dickerson broke the single season rushing record, the Rams home playoff game against the Giants was not shown on local TV because it did not sell out in time. Perhaps it did by game time.

I'm not one to defend Bernie at all (if he weren't a PD columnist, his opinions would fit perfectly in RamStalk), but I'm sure he's referring to the TV blackout.

Well, I think Bernie misses the point, for it wasn't about fans turning away from record breaking seasons by Dickerson, it was more about numerous actions, over a period of time, that put the organization into a no-mans land of brand loyalty, which I think was pretty much self-imposed by an odd new owner.

If I recall that time in Anaheim, the Rams organization had already done considerable damage to its fanbase. For example, they had moved away from the Coliseum (where I had had season tix) to Anaheim, which was way too far to drive for most fans, especially due to the insane traffic (if you lived in LA, it became an all-day affair to attend a game). Further, they really hadn't done much, or at least weren't that successful, at building a new base of loyal fans in Orange County. Georgia had taken-over the team, fired the front office, and pretty much pissed-off everyone, and I don't think those relationships (including those with many fans) were ever rebuilt, even with the move to Anaheim. So, I think alot of people said F-you to the team. Further, the fan experience in Anaheim sucked, as the stadium never really worked well as football venue, and the gameday entertainment was obnoxious. Additionally, most of the icons that were associated with the LA team were now gone (names like Olsen & Youngblood, etc), and they weren't replaced with new players that achieved similar levels of fan awareness or loyalty (or, perhaps the Rams F.O. didn't do as good as a job marketing their players and turning them into icons).

I guess I could go on an on. The point is that a lot of damage had been done long before Dickerson arrived on the scene and started breaking records. So, there were plenty of reasons that fans stayed away.

Overall, It seems that St Louis is now getting a taste of some of the same treatment that SoCal received by Georgia after Carroll's death. It was pretty obvious that Carroll cared, and it showed up in every aspect of the team and its relationship with the fans. It is hard to put into words, but there was nothing better than watching a Rams win in the LA Coliseum sunshine, and eating those burnt-grilled hotdogs cooked by a lady who could be your mom, cooking a 100 dogs at a time on those old flat-tops. Prices weren't insane, everyone was nice, fans weren't treated just like ticket holders, and it seemed like everyone had fun, even with the 4th qtr fights in the stands.

Hopefully, Kronke gets it, and will develop a good product and create an atmosphere of respect for the fanbase. But given that there is so much talk about this team moving, there is most likely too much insecurity in the fanbase to generate the kind of mutual respect, and ultimate mutual loyalty, that is sought by the community.

 

[Anonymous]

I like so many others suggested on this site am a Rams fan. I am from Southern California and if they stay in St. Louis that's cool with me but if they move to LA even better. I would prefer they move back to LA where they belong. (I never bought any fan appeal that said anything St. Louis)

I like how Bernie said that the Rams were not selling out Playoff games when Dickerson was breaking records....that's funny! I had season tixs through the 80's and it seemed like they were all sell outs to me! Way to go Bernie! I get what you are saying, but don't print lies about the City of LA when they are not true! It just makes Bernie look bad!

Sorry, former LA Ram fan here, and in 1984, when Dickerson broke the single season rushing record, the Rams home playoff game against the Giants was not shown on local TV because it did not sell out in time. Perhaps it did by game time.

I'm not one to defend Bernie at all (if he weren't a PD columnist, his opinions would fit perfectly in RamStalk), but I'm sure he's referring to the TV blackout.

Well, I think Bernie misses the point, for it wasn't about fans turning away from record breaking seasons by Dickerson, it was more about numerous actions, over a period of time, that put the organization into a no-mans land of brand loyalty, which I think was pretty much self-imposed by an odd new owner.

If I recall that time in Anaheim, the Rams organization had already done considerable damage to its fanbase. For example, they had moved away from the Coliseum (where I had had season tix) to Anaheim, which was way too far to drive for most fans, especially due to the insane traffic (if you lived in LA, it became an all-day affair to attend a game). Further, they really hadn't done much, or at least weren't that successful, at building a new base of loyal fans in Orange County. Georgia had taken-over the team, fired the front office, and pretty much pissed-off everyone, and I don't think those relationships (including those with many fans) were ever rebuilt, even with the move to Anaheim. So, I think alot of people said F-you to the team. Further, the fan experience in Anaheim sucked, as the stadium never really worked well as football venue, and the gameday entertainment was obnoxious. Additionally, most of the icons that were associated with the LA team were now gone (names like Olsen & Youngblood, etc), and they weren't replaced with new players that achieved similar levels of fan awareness or loyalty (or, perhaps the Rams F.O. didn't do as good as a job marketing their players and turning them into icons).

I guess I could go on an on. The point is that a lot of damage had been done long before Dickerson arrived on the scene and started breaking records. So, there were plenty of reasons that fans stayed away.

Overall, It seems that St Louis is now getting a taste of some of the same treatment that SoCal received by Georgia after Carroll's death. It was pretty obvious that Carroll cared, and it showed up in every aspect of the team and its relationship with the fans. It is hard to put into words, but there was nothing better than watching a Rams win in the LA Coliseum sunshine, and eating those burnt-grilled hotdogs cooked by a lady who could be your mom, cooking a 100 dogs at a time on those old flat-tops. Prices weren't insane, everyone was nice, fans weren't treated just like ticket holders, and it seemed like everyone had fun, even with the 4th qtr fights in the stands.

Hopefully, Kronke gets it, and will develop a good product and create an atmosphere of respect for the fanbase. But given that there is so much talk about this team moving, there is most likely too much insecurity in the fanbase to generate the kind of mutual respect, and ultimate mutual loyalty, that is sought by the community.

Good post. Your last paragraph is gold. (Is the traffic in LA any better these days?)

 

[Ram Quixote]

Bernie almost always misses the point regarding LA Rams fans, but so do a lot of Stl fans.

It's like with the Dodgers this past season. The fans support the team, but not McCourt (the owner). Georgia made far too many missteps in LA, and basically gave up.

But the move to Anaheim was something Carroll Rosenbloom was considering before his death. Whether he intended to move or was just bluffing*, it's clear in hindsight that Georgia took every opportunity to distance herself from LA.

But the first nail in the coffin of the LA Rams was the move of the Raiders to LA. That effectively split the fan base.

*playing in the Coliseum was not a great option either, due to foot-dragging politics and the difficulty of selling out a 90K+ capacity venue. You can bet the TV networks didn't care to have the 2nd largest TV market blacked out 6 of 8 home games. The Coliseum Rams had a long history of first-round playoff games not selling out. I remember games against the Redskins, Cardinals and, of course, the Mud Bowl against the Vikings.

 

[Stranger]

Good post. Your last paragraph is gold. (Is the traffic in LA any better these days?)

I don't live in LA any longer, haven't for a long time, but last time I was there the traffic was far worse than I recall.

Bernie almost always misses the point regarding LA Rams fans, but so do a lot of Stl fans.

It's like with the Dodgers this past season. The fans support the team, but not McCourt (the owner). Georgia made far too many missteps in LA, and basically gave up.

But the move to Anaheim was something Carroll Rosenbloom was considering before his death. Whether he intended to move or was just bluffing*, it's clear in hindsight that Georgia took every opportunity to distance herself from LA.

But the first nail in the coffin of the LA Rams was the move of the Raiders to LA. That effectively split the fan base.

*playing in the Coliseum was not a great option either, due to foot-dragging politics and the difficulty of selling out a 90K+ capacity venue. You can bet the TV networks didn't care to have the 2nd largest TV market blacked out 6 of 8 home games. The Coliseum Rams had a long history of first-round playoff games not selling out. I remember games against the Redskins, Cardinals and, of course, the Mud Bowl against the Vikings.

Good point about the Raiders splitting the fanbase... I had forgotten about that very important point.

With regard to the Coliseum not selling out, I attended all of the home playoff games and I recall them putting up temporary stands in the open end of the field to significantly lower the sellout figures. Are you sure non of their playoff games sold enough tix to lift the blackout... I thought some had, but my memory is terrible.

Anyway, I loved the Coliseum, it was a 10 minute bus ride and those Hot Dogs, just like the old Dodger Dogs, were to die for, even tho they burnt the heck out of 'em.

I guess the bottom line was that the Georgia front office paid the fans no love, and it was more than obvious. And while I'm no longer in St Louis, it seems that the current administration may generating similar feeling in St Louis. If that is the case, than Bernie's stupid rant was totally misplaced. Instead of blasting our new owner he should call for mutual respect and understanding... and start rebuilding a community relationship rather than create this kind of childish division.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Good post. Your last paragraph is gold. (Is the traffic in LA any better these days?)

I don't live in LA any longer, haven't for a long time, but last time I was there the traffic was far worse than I recall.

It's worse, don't worry, especially around downtown where Staples (and the proposed stadium location) is. The layout of the freeways makes it even worse. Nobody ever takes the trains to lighter traffic areas and makes it easier, instead everyone packs in, pays 60-80 bucks for parking (for USC, right across the freeway it's 60, Laker games between 60-80 usually, Kings games it's 15 thankfully) and then crowds the streets. Then you have the other people there just downtown at LA live, etc etc. It's really a big pain to get in and out of the area.

It's smarter to go with your buddies and hangout somewhere else for a few hours (LA Live if you feel like spending 13 bucks for nachos, and 15 for beer) or take the metro. Metro is always empty.

 

[Anonymous]

Good post. Your last paragraph is gold. (Is the traffic in LA any better these days?)

I don't live in LA any longer, haven't for a long time, but last time I was there the traffic was far worse than I recall.

It's worse, don't worry, especially around downtown where Staples (and the proposed stadium location) is. The layout of the freeways makes it even worse. Nobody ever takes the trains to lighter traffic areas and makes it easier, instead everyone packs in, pays 60-80 bucks for parking (for USC, right across the freeway it's 60, Laker games between 60-80 usually, Kings games it's 15 thankfully) and then crowds the streets. Then you have the other people there just downtown at LA live, etc etc. It's really a big pain to get in and out of the area.

It's smarter to go with your buddies and hangout somewhere else for a few hours (LA Live if you feel like spending 13 bucks for nachos, and 15 for beer) or take the metro. Metro is always empty.

That's weird. Wherever I've been the mass transit route is the best for games. Is the LA Metro a war zone or something?

 

[superfan24]

Good post. Your last paragraph is gold. (Is the traffic in LA any better these days?)

I don't live in LA any longer, haven't for a long time, but last time I was there the traffic was far worse than I recall.

It's worse, don't worry, especially around downtown where Staples (and the proposed stadium location) is. The layout of the freeways makes it even worse. Nobody ever takes the trains to lighter traffic areas and makes it easier, instead everyone packs in, pays 60-80 bucks for parking (for USC, right across the freeway it's 60, Laker games between 60-80 usually, Kings games it's 15 thankfully) and then crowds the streets. Then you have the other people there just downtown at LA live, etc etc. It's really a big pain to get in and out of the area.

It's smarter to go with your buddies and hangout somewhere else for a few hours (LA Live if you feel like spending 13 bucks for nachos, and 15 for beer) or take the metro. Metro is always empty.

That's weird. Wherever I've been the mass transit route is the best for games. Is the LA Metro a war zone or something?

Same here squeaky. Except STL doesn't have a big transit system that I know of. People always tell me not to use it. :idk:

 

[brokeu91]

Good post. Your last paragraph is gold. (Is the traffic in LA any better these days?)

I don't live in LA any longer, haven't for a long time, but last time I was there the traffic was far worse than I recall.

It's worse, don't worry, especially around downtown where Staples (and the proposed stadium location) is. The layout of the freeways makes it even worse. Nobody ever takes the trains to lighter traffic areas and makes it easier, instead everyone packs in, pays 60-80 bucks for parking (for USC, right across the freeway it's 60, Laker games between 60-80 usually, Kings games it's 15 thankfully) and then crowds the streets. Then you have the other people there just downtown at LA live, etc etc. It's really a big pain to get in and out of the area.

It's smarter to go with your buddies and hangout somewhere else for a few hours (LA Live if you feel like spending 13 bucks for nachos, and 15 for beer) or take the metro. Metro is always empty.

That's weird. Wherever I've been the mass transit route is the best for games. Is the LA Metro a war zone or something?

Same here squeaky. Except STL doesn't have a big transit system that I know of. People always tell me not to use it. :idk:

I used mass transit in St. Louis for high school and college. The metro link is pretty nice if there's a stop near where you need to go. It's definitely faster than getting jammed up on the highway. When I'm in STL and go to a stadium downtown, I take the metro link to the game, it's faster, cheaper and easier to get out of. However, you can't really tailgate if you do it like that. So really there's pros and cons to either. I'm guessing other cities are like that too.

 

[Ram Quixote]

That's weird. Wherever I've been the mass transit route is the best for games. Is the LA Metro a war zone or something?

Old habits die hard. The LA culture for a long time was built around individuals getting around on their own. The Metro is only about 10 years old, compared to 50 years of freeways.

Inter--not all the playoff games were blacked out, but IIRC, only NFC Championship playoff games sold out at the Coliseum.

 

[superfan24]

Good post. Your last paragraph is gold. (Is the traffic in LA any better these days?)

I don't live in LA any longer, haven't for a long time, but last time I was there the traffic was far worse than I recall.

It's worse, don't worry, especially around downtown where Staples (and the proposed stadium location) is. The layout of the freeways makes it even worse. Nobody ever takes the trains to lighter traffic areas and makes it easier, instead everyone packs in, pays 60-80 bucks for parking (for USC, right across the freeway it's 60, Laker games between 60-80 usually, Kings games it's 15 thankfully) and then crowds the streets. Then you have the other people there just downtown at LA live, etc etc. It's really a big pain to get in and out of the area.

It's smarter to go with your buddies and hangout somewhere else for a few hours (LA Live if you feel like spending 13 bucks for nachos, and 15 for beer) or take the metro. Metro is always empty.

That's weird. Wherever I've been the mass transit route is the best for games. Is the LA Metro a war zone or something?

Same here squeaky. Except STL doesn't have a big transit system that I know of. People always tell me not to use it. :idk:

I used mass transit in St. Louis for high school and college. The metro link is pretty nice if there's a stop near where you need to go. It's definitely faster than getting jammed up on the highway. When I'm in STL and go to a stadium downtown, I take the metro link to the game, it's faster, cheaper and easier to get out of. However, you can't really tailgate if you do it like that. So really there's pros and cons to either. I'm guessing other cities are like that too.

Gotta look into that, but Rams games are not bad at all to get out of parking, etc...Usually pay $10 for the garage.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Good post. Your last paragraph is gold. (Is the traffic in LA any better these days?)

I don't live in LA any longer, haven't for a long time, but last time I was there the traffic was far worse than I recall.

It's worse, don't worry, especially around downtown where Staples (and the proposed stadium location) is. The layout of the freeways makes it even worse. Nobody ever takes the trains to lighter traffic areas and makes it easier, instead everyone packs in, pays 60-80 bucks for parking (for USC, right across the freeway it's 60, Laker games between 60-80 usually, Kings games it's 15 thankfully) and then crowds the streets. Then you have the other people there just downtown at LA live, etc etc. It's really a big pain to get in and out of the area.

It's smarter to go with your buddies and hangout somewhere else for a few hours (LA Live if you feel like spending 13 bucks for nachos, and 15 for beer) or take the metro. Metro is always empty.

That's weird. Wherever I've been the mass transit route is the best for games. Is the LA Metro a war zone or something?

No, it's a ghost town, it's cheap and easier, and you can be dropped off about two blocks from Staples, it's really really easy.

People just don't really know about it, and even those who do would rather take their own cars.