BARRON>OLGETREE??

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I guess tree was playing pretty good before he was hurt but 1 thing that jumped out at me when watching him Vs barron is overrunning plays and not wrapping up. Plus barron seems to have more tfl than I can remember tree having
 
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jjab360 said:
Barron is a stud, but defensive MVP on a team with Aaron Donald? C'mon man...
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When i use the term MVP i'm using it in terms of it's literal meaning(most valuable player) not in terms of the best player, which is how pro sports has handed out these trophies for for decades. Donald is obviously our best player on defense, so i understand why you might have questioned my post. IMO Barron has been more valuable, especially since Tree went down(the leading tackler).
 
Mojo Ram said:
When i use the term MVP i'm using it in terms of it's literal meaning(most valuable player) not in terms of the best player, which is how pro sports has handed out these trophies for for decades. Donald is obviously our best player on defense, so i understand why you might have questioned my post. IMO Barron has been more valuable, especially since Tree went down(the leading tackler).
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Can't agree with that. Donald is so ridiculously disruptive on almost every other play that sometimes it can be taken for granted. Donald definitely has the most value of anyone on this D imo.
 
I do think right now the defense is better with their current configuration than when AO was in there. Barron has great instincts and always seems to be in the right place at the right time. He is also downright nasty in his play style which is a better fit for a Williams defense due to the intimidation factor.

Not taking anything away from AO but Barron is a must-sign for this team. Williams is at his best with lots of fast secondary pieces he can mix and match, and a guy like Barron is a natural fit. Can't have enough big safety types nowadays that can cover or play near the LOS. Get 'er done Snead.
 
From where I sit, it's hard to honestly judge Barron v 'Tree, esp when you consider strength of opponent and the fact that we only have a small sample size with Barron. 'Tree has clearly had the tougher assignments and the longer track record. But did anyone notice the 49ers running O?? No?? Well THAT'S BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED!! 15 rushes for 10 yards?!? Embarassing!! The Browns did only slightly better with 19 rushes for 56 yards, but not much. That's just a miserable all-day-long FAIL.

So let's thrown some PFF and their imaginary stats into this to see if that clarifies anything.
  • PFF has Ogletree rated at -1.8 for the year, which puts him right at 50% of 4-3 OLBs. This is pretty consistent with his career performance, where he was -3.5 last year which is honestly not that bad. He has 15 "stops" (a tackle which constituted an offensive failure) in 266 snaps and 4 missed tackles.
  • Mark Barron, on the other hand, is at +6.0 in only 201 snaps which ranks him as the #6 4-3 OLB. More remarkably, if you do this on a per-snap basis (statistically valid), Barron would be 2nd only to NE's Dont'a Hightower. Not bad for a guy just learning the position. Dig in a bit more, in Barron's 201 snaps, he's had 19 stops and only 1 missed tackle. That's having a serious impact on defense!!
If everyone sees what I see, this consistent with how you'd rate them. Barron is FLASH + IMPACT (and PFF loves FLASH players). Ogletree is PURSUE + PUNISH. But with the small sample size, one could reasonably argue that Barron is having more of an impact.

Can Barron keep this up against better opponents, teams that run for a living (read: Vikes!)? That's the question of the day. If the answer is yes, then you kinda wonder if Ogletree will get his WIL back when he returns (see what I did there?).
 
jjab360 said:
Can't agree with that. Donald is so ridiculously disruptive on almost every other play that sometimes it can be taken for granted. Donald definitely has the most value of anyone on this D imo.
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Real quick question, if you had to choose between Quinn and Donald, who would you choose?
 
when Ogletree is healthy again they should keep it just the way it is, primarily playing that big nickel. get Ayers off the field more, no offense to him but having Tree, JL and Barron playing the wild card all over the field is obviously the most potent mix. it really doesn't matter if they're playing run D or pass D, he's the Tavon of the defense, throw him wherever you want just to fuck with the offense and wreak havoc.
 
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jjab360 said:
Donald, without thinking twice.

Quinn is a monster, top 3/5 DE but Donald is the best DT and one of the best players in the entire league.
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Not disagreeing with you either of your statements, I am just of the opinion that value wise a top 3/5 DE has more impact than the top DT would have.

That being said, I love that we have both of them for quite some time and that decision won't be made any time soon.
 
If Mark Barron continues to star for the rest of the season I am looking very hard for a way to have both Tree & Barron here in 2016 and beyond. The 29 yr old JL is due nearly 15 million the next two seasons (2016/2017) so I going there to see if I can get some of that to help me keep Barron. Having Tree/Barron playing on the outside LB'er posts is a must.

This is by far the best of Barron's 3 1/2 seasons. Its like Gregg built this defense to fit Barron. I believe Barron knows that the normal safety positions he will play elsewhere does not fit him well. I think Barron has some of the best defensive football instincts of this team. You do not let him walk off.

Ayers may be better playing inside than outside. Bates & Lynch are wonderful back ups. Bryce Hager has shown he has a bright future @ MLB post too. You must make every attempt to keep your play-makers & Barron is a sure play-maker!
 
Jorgeh0605 said:
Not disagreeing with you either of your statements, I am just of the opinion that value wise a top 3/5 DE has more impact than the top DT would have.

That being said, I love that we have both of them for quite some time and that decision won't be made any time soon.
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DT has the fastest path to the QB/RB. DEs are easier to gameplan with a TE and RB blocking, but a DT who can routinely beat a double team and has the speed to chase down any QB in the NFL? Basically your only choice is running and rolling the pocket away from him like teams have been doing. And pull blocks? Lolno.
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That's an entire section of your playbook that you will never be able to use against the Rams because of one player. That, 7 step dropbacks, hell 5 step dropbacks, and any runs up the middle in general are entirely ineffective.
 
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Mojo Ram said:
When i use the term MVP i'm using it in terms of it's literal meaning(most valuable player) not in terms of the best player, which is how pro sports has handed out these trophies for for decades. Donald is obviously our best player on defense, so i understand why you might have questioned my post. IMO Barron has been more valuable, especially since Tree went down(the leading tackler).
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This^ is a very debatable point!!!:argue: I think I'll stay out of it! I love them all!!:homercrawl:
 
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/11/05/colin-kaepernick-benching-ken-whisenhunt-fired-nfl

I think one of the most overlooked players in the NFL is Rams safety Mark Barron. Or, more accurately, Rams linebacker Mark Barron, as that’s where the ex-Buc has been in the wake of Alec Ogletree’s injury. Barron has excellent quickness in the box and the flexibility to cover running backs and tight ends one-on-one. He’s a great fit in Gregg Williams’ multifaceted system.
 
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Good god if ourselves 4 years ago could see us now.... arguing over who is more dominating at a position and should get more playing time and it being a hard argument to have.

Something we've been dreaming of for a long time to have again..... quality depth. A good sign the hump has almost been gotten over.

:)
 
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