Aug-05 Camp Thread

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Florida_Ram

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lockdnram21 said:
Check out @MylesASimmons's Tweet:
View: https://twitter.com/MylesASimmons/status/761725556815650816?s=09
Click to expand...


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Ram65

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LACHAMP46 said:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...uld-begin-on-bench-hue-jacksons-rgiii-project
  • By Bucky Brooks
  • NFL Media analyst

But first, we begin with an in-depth look at how the No. 1 overall pick is faring in his first training camp ...

Patience is a virtue -- in virtually all aspects of life. But it is rarely found in NFL locker rooms.

In a league where production and performance are paramount, general managers and scouts frequently fall prey to the outside noise and rush players onto the field to justify lofty draft-day selections. This happens with most top picks, but quarterbacks are especially susceptible to microwave treatment when they are selected in the first round -- and even more so when they're taken with a top-10 pick.

That's why I'm paying close attention to how the Los Angeles Rams are bringing along Jared Goff.

The football world will be clamoring to see the No. 1 overall pick when the Rams open their season in front of a national television audience at San Francisco in the final game of Week 1 on Monday, Sept. 12. While I've heard all of the rhetoric from coach Jeff Fisher and his staff on resisting the urge to put the rookie out on the field before he is ready, we've seen nearly every quarterback selected with a top-five pick over the past five years take the ball as the team's starter very early in the season. Thus, I traveled to Rams camp fully expecting to see Goff primed and ready to supplant Case Keenum as the team's starter.






I mean, on paper, this shouldn't be a fair fight: Goff boasts prototypical physical dimensions (6-foot-4, 215 pounds), A+ arm talent and a polished game, while Keenum has a smallish stature (6-1, 205 pounds), an average arm and a lack of cachet as a former undrafted free agent and current NFL journeyman. Sure, Keenum led the Rams to a 3-2 record as the team's part-time starter a season ago, but Fisher wouldn't seriously consider using the fifth-year pro as a legitimate starter this season. Right?

To my surprise, Goff isn't anywhere close to being ready to play as a starting quarterback at this stage of training camp. Now, this isn't a direct knock on him or his future potential. It can be a process. Having been around some of the best quarterback developers in the game (Mike Holmgren, Andy Reid, Jon Gruden, Steve Mariucci, Dan Henning, Kevin Gilbride, Mike McCarthy and Mike McCoy), I know that young signal callers must check the boxes in three key areas before they are primed to step on the field as a starter:

» Communication
» Coverage identification
» Judgment

Watching Goff over a full workout, I sensed that -- despite widely reported improvement since the end of OTAs and minicamps -- the Cal product still has a long way to go before he reaches the standard needed to wrestle the starting job from Keenum.

After spending his formative years directing a spread offense (Sonny Dykes' "Bear Raid"), Goff is still mastering the verbiage and communication skills to own the huddle. The lengthy play calls and at-the-line adjustments require far more verbal communication than the no-huddle system he ran in Berkeley. In addition, the constant chatter and identification require complete mastery of the playbook to make split-second decisions at the line. While I'm not privy to the Rams' playbook or their audible system, I can say that the offense operated with better tempo and pace when Keenum was at the helm. Goff had his moments directing the two-minute offense in team drills, but the pauses between plays were noticeably longer with the rookie in charge.






Moving on to some of Goff's post-snap responsibilities, I believe he is still adjusting to the complex coverages routinely employed by NFL coordinators. Rams DC Gregg Williams is one of the most creative tacticians in football, and his carefully crafted pre-snap disguises frequently mask the designated coverage. Thus, opposing quarterbacks must be in tune to the depths of linebackers and safeties in order to get a bead on the blitz or coverage. Keenum efficiently sorted out the myriad disguises and blitzes from the Rams' starters to find the hot route or open receiver down the field. He was rarely flustered by the constant movement, and his efficiency certainly surprised me, based on the complexity of the defensive looks.

Meanwhile, despite facing a more static look, Goff struggled a bit against the defense in team drills. Williams frequently aligned his defense in a Cover 2 shell (two deep safeties with corners aligned at 6 to 7 yards) and used a variety of simple zone (Cover 2, Cover 3) or zone-blitz (five-man rush with three deep and three under) concepts against the rookie. These defenses are the equivalent of what you would see in an NFL 101 class, yet Goff routinely had a tough time finding the open guy. And when he did identify the open man, he was frequently late with his throw, resulting in a contested catch or off-target toss down the field. At the NFL level, quarterbacks must throw with timing and anticipation to consistently complete passes in tight windows between multiple defenders.

Now, I don't want to be too critical of a young passer in the opening stretch of his first NFL training camp, but judgment is arguably the most important part of playing the position, and Goff seems so overwhelmed by the speed of the game that he's been inconsistent with his decisions. Some of his poor determinations are understandable, due to the uncertainty that plagues every young QB, but he also has been prone to making some "hero" throws in traffic. In the workout I attended, Goff threw four passes that should've been intercepted, each the result of a forced throw at intermediate range despite the fact that a checkdown was available underneath.

To be fair, most quarterbacks are reluctant to take the open checkdown when they believe they can make a "hero" throw. But Goff is in line for a number of turnovers off tips and overthrows until he develops the patience and poise to settle for a short completion instead of gambling on a "wow" play. He might foster these characteristics after a few preseason games, but I believe it will take him some time to learn the management skills needed to start for a competitive team.

Taking all of this into account, I think it's sensible for Fisher to officially name Keenum the starter and stick with him through at least the first half of the season. The veteran not only gives the Rams the best chance to win right now, but the team believes in his talent and leadership skills. Speaking to several offensive players, I repeatedly heard the word "gamer" and "winner" in reference to the 28-year-old Keenum. In fact, one Rams receiver said the offense would thrive in 2016 with Keenum at the helm, even though everyone expects Goff to eventually become a "baller" at the position.






To get a management perspective, I talked to several team officials who suggested Keenum can succeed because he has a clear understanding of his limitations and won't try to do too much with the ball in his hands. Unlike some quarterbacks who shrug off the "game manager" label, Keenum seemingly has embraced the approach -- and everyone in the building believes he won't mess it up if he gets the chance. Given that Los Angeles has a budding superstar in Todd Gurley who can pound the football, savvy game management from the quarterback position could work quite well for this team.

For the past several months, I thought the prospect of Keenum taking the field with the starting unit was simply the product of coachspeak. But after spending time at Rams camp, I believe the team should play the veteran quarterback until the youngster proves that he is ready to handle the job. This is the blueprint Fisher successfully used with a young Steve McNair during his time heading the Oilers/Titans.NFL Draft, McNair didn't become a full-time starter until 1997. He went on to make three Pro Bowls and earn NFL MVP honors in 2003. Fisher should keep this in mind, to help Goff eventually reach his full potential as the Rams' franchise quarterback
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Thanks for posting Champ. That was a good read. Seems like Case is growing some in the Rams offense. If he is better at the start of the season then of course he starts.

I'm getting the the Eli Manning rookie season feeling. Not the same situation as Eli but, the same growing pains coming for Goff. I have stated that the Rams can win with CK at QB. Stay tuned. I was thinking Goff could be the starter at the beginning of the season but, that could prove too much to ask.
 
LACHAMP46

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Ram65 said:
I was thinking Goff could be the starter at the beginning of the season but, that could prove too much to ask.
Click to expand...
Me too...I still think he can...it's early...but his air-raid offense is so far from pro-style...unless they modify Boras W-Coast offense, he'll struggle with some basic stuff....
And, I wish Wentz was in a similar circumstance just to compare...I argued in here a guy coming from a pro-style offense, no matter the division, would be more pro ready...goes for Wentz, Cook, Hackenberg. or Kessler...I think Hogan from stanford is the same too....Calling plays in a huddle is different....Taking snaps is different...Playaction passes....Reading coverages...All very different than a bear-raid, shotgun-type spread offense..I expect a vast difference in his ability by preseason game 3....

Florida_Ram said:
QUICK-BEAST is going to thrive in the RedZone
Click to expand...
Fixed it for ya Florida!!!!!
 
WestCoastRam

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@Ram65, Nice comparison to Eli. Think he might have been one of the last rookie QBs besides Bortles to sit for part of a season. Heck, he might have been the last #1 pick to do it.

If the SF game was today, I don't see how you start Goff. It seems like he's got a ways to go in consistency, I'm not sure that gets fixed in 4 or so weeks. I'll keep my fingers crossed. I do think that after the scrimmage on Saturday all the big storylines will be set for the rest of camp.

1) Who's starting at FS... looks like this storyline is already done.
2) Will Goff start the 1st game of the season? I'm pegging him at 30/70 starting right now and be it will remain that way through Saturday. I don't see those numbers changing all that much after Sat's scrimmage. Though I think some would argue the preseason games will play a role in the odds of him starting.
3) What WR's are getting 1st team reps? That's right, not what WR's are gonna make it but who's getting 1st team reps. I think by Sat will really see people getting the bulk of reps. Britt will get a lot of rest this camp so it will be interesting to see who takes his spot for the rest of the 1st team reps. Does anyone steal reps from Marquez for the slot??

The only two storylines that doesn't really get set after the 1st week is injuries and the bottom of roster which really gets played out in last two games of preseason.
 
Dodgersrf

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Even if Goff doesn't start. I'm more comfortable with out QB squad than I've been in years.
 
Ram65

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LACHAMP46 said:
Me too...I still think he can...it's early...but his air-raid offense is so far from pro-style...unless they modify Boras W-Coast offense, he'll struggle with some basic stuff....
And, I wish Wentz was in a similar circumstance just to compare...I argued in here a guy coming from a pro-style offense, no matter the division, would be more pro ready...goes for Wentz, Cook, Hackenberg. or Kessler...I think Hogan from stanford is the same too....Calling plays in a huddle is different....Taking snaps is different...Playaction passes....Reading coverages...All very different than a bear-raid, shotgun-type spread offense..I expect a vast difference in his ability by preseason game 3....

Fixed it for ya Florida!!!!!
Click to expand...

Earlier this week Wentz has been struggling with his passes. The Eagles have been working on his mechanics and he is throwing some out passes that actually wobble. This is from local radio ESPN. As of now Wentz will not be active for games. Hard to apply your theory here. I think all rookie QBs are going to have troubles early with NFL defenses.

WestCoastRam said:
@Ram65, Nice comparison to Eli. Think he might have been one of the last rookie QBs besides Bortles to sit for part of a season. Heck, he might have been the last #1 pick to do it.

If the SF game was today, I don't see how you start Goff. It seems like he's got a ways to go in consistency, I'm not sure that gets fixed in 4 or so weeks. I'll keep my fingers crossed. I do think that after the scrimmage on Saturday all the big storylines will be set for the rest of camp.

1) Who's starting at FS... looks like this storyline is already done.
2) Will Goff start the 1st game of the season? I'm pegging him at 30/70 starting right now and be it will remain that way through Saturday. I don't see those numbers changing all that much after Sat's scrimmage. Though I think some would argue the preseason games will play a role in the odds of him starting.
3) What WR's are getting 1st team reps? That's right, not what WR's are gonna make it but who's getting 1st team reps. I think by Sat will really see people getting the bulk of reps. Britt will get a lot of rest this camp so it will be interesting to see who takes his spot for the rest of the 1st team reps. Does anyone steal reps from Marquez for the slot??

The only two storylines that doesn't really get set after the 1st week is injuries and the bottom of roster which really gets played out in last two games of preseason.
Click to expand...

I leaning 30-70 as well. CK knowing and having experience being in the system makes the decision sitting Goff much easier. Looking forward to seeing how shines in the scrimmage at WR and QB.
 
So Ram

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Legatron4 said:
Something to add to the watch list today: the battle at FS. I really want to know how Alexander looks.
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When I saw him he looked good.He lives to hit . Just imagine a LBer playing FS.
He is going to make his presence felt for WR's making plays in front of him.
-/There was a rookie WR who caught a pass at the end of 11 drills.He was going out of bounds ,or taking it easy. Then BAM like a Pitt Bull, he lit him up & rattled his teeth.
 
RamBall

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biggame1190 said:
Hamstrings can linger though! But better than worst case scenario! Lets hope we give him time to heal up
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Fisher seems to do a very good job at letting players heal up before letting them return. I know he has done a lot of research on soft tissue injuries and seems to be ahead of the curve in this area.
 
So Ram

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So Ram

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DR RAM said:
He's the real deal. Don't know how long it will take him, but he will be a star.
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Yeah could be right. How about Copper though ??
-- I seems like Mike Thomas can do it all though. He is still working hard to get better. His attitude is excellent. Liked his interview on The Rams site. He talks about how he was playing to fast.
 
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