Are the Seahawks in Decline?

[oldnotdead]

The Hawks aren't in decline, but it's hard to ignore their issues. They are trying to stay competitive in the NFCW which is undergoing a weapons race within the division. Besides DJ and Lockett they now have a true possession type receiver in Aaron Fuller. Add in Dissly and Everett at TE and Wilson has weapons. They still have a strong run game with Carson and Penny.

On defense, they have decent edges with Dunlap and Hyder and a great LB in Wagner and Bur-Kirvin a good developmental player beside him. But they have a long way to go in their secondary and OL. Those two areas are what will limit the Hawks and why I think they are #3 in the NFCW depending upon who the QB is in SF.

SF is a pretty good team as is. They got hurt by injuries last year like the Rams did the year before. When healthy they are almost a complete team. Why almost? I have questions about their OL and their secondary. They might be good, mediocre, or bad it's hard to say. That said I think those two units are probably better than the Hawks which is why I personally rank them higher in the division.

AZ has added pieces but IMO not enough for this division. Their season will only be as successful as Murray's health. I saw an article ot here in AZ that made me laugh. It said that Kyle Murray is now getting to understand the offense! HUH? Kingsbury went to great lengths to import his collegiate offense to allow him to get off to a fast start which he pretty much did. But one read and run QBs simply don't work in the NFL. If Murray is only now getting to understand that add another 2 years to his development timeline. He will be a FA before they know if he can play that style and Kingsbury will be long gone. If AZ doesn't finish 2nd in the division I think Kingsbury will get fired. His record of 13-18-1 ain't gonna cut it. Let's face it he got hired because of Mahomes and he convinced the Cards FO that Murray was the second coming.

Unless the Hawks and Niners totally collapse I don't see the Cards finishing better than 3rd. Looking at their schedule they might not even make it as a wildcard. They have desperately tried to upgrade their roster via a bunch of one-year deals to second-tier vets. It's testimony to their poor drafts. When teams do that, IMO its a sign that everyone including the FO is on shaky ground with ownership. Bidwell must be pretty frustrated after not gaining ground in the division after 3 years.

 

[Loyal]

We are built to kill the Seahawks and we do, more often than not. Oompa Lumpa is afraid of #99, and he should be.

 

[thirteen28]

The Shehawks had a good run. It’s time for them to start sucking. I’m interested to see if the 12th man continues to show up when they decline.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFknxgSHRfY

 

[Merlin]

I love that video. That was a great day.

 

[Ramstien]

I am quite frankly shocked and pleased that they have made little effort to improve their poor OL play.

 

[snackdaddy]

I don't know how much of a decline they are in, if any. They haven't been a Superbowl contender for a few years now. But they've been a playoff contender since Wilson has been quarterback. I don't see that changing. I think they will be what they've been for a while. A team that makes the playoffs in the wild card round. They may or may not win a playoff game.

 

[oldnotdead]

I'm not sure what the premise is for this thread. Here's their record the last 3 years. Remember being in the same division we play pretty much the same teams.

2020 12-4 NFCW Champs
2019 11-5 Second NFCW
2018 10-6 Second NFCW

That doesn't look like a team in decline. If so the same case could be made about the Rams. What you have to do is take the long view and look at their roster and roster turnover. I don't see them in decline, simply needing to improve in some areas. Offensively, they have a strong run game with Carson and Penny, good WRs with Metcalf and Lockett, and decent TEs with Dissly and Everett. But their OL is mediocre (ranked in the mid-teens) and because of their secondary issues, their defense is similarly ranked.

They only had 3 picks this year:

Tre Brown CB: Undersized at 5'10" but good speed timed at 4.3-4.4 ranges. Needs work on his technique, particularly as he had a rep in college for being "handsy" which will get flagged in the NFL. That is a symptom of a player who got beat. He also struggles to contest catches, i.e. he doesn't play beyond his length as Darious Williams does. Scouts say he's best playing downhill, i.e. a zone CB which explains his grabby nature. Drafted for his speed, but IMO a 2-year project at least.

Dwayne Eskridge WR: Taken right before Tutu and I can see why McVay was relieved. Undersized at 5'9" (shorter than Tutu) but with a similar 4.3 speed. Very raw with his route running, and his injury history is a concern. Inconsistent with his ability to track the ball, just average acceleration, inconsistent hands, and doesn't seem to play well in traffic. The primary impact IMO this year will be as a returner. His long-term is in doubt, as acceleration and inconsistent hands are the biggest flags on him.

Stone Forsythe OT: Like all late-round OTs he has work to do. That said if he can correct his issues they might have a decent OT. I think he projects as a LT because of his length and film. His length works against him in run blocking and it shows, which is why I say they might be looking at him as their LT at some time in the future. He's at best a 2-year project.

If a team had a poor draft I would have to add the Hawks to the list. But as long as they have Wilson and their core offense they will have a chance to win their share of games. I think it's more a matter of them not keeping up in the NFCW improvement much like AZ is struggling to do more than a real decline.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm not sure what the premise is for this thread. Here's their record the last 3 years. Remember being in the same division we play pretty much the same teams.

2020 12-4 NFCW Champs
2019 11-5 Second NFCW
2018 10-6 Second NFCW

That doesn't look like a team in decline. If so the same case could be made about the Rams. What you have to do is take the long view and look at their roster and roster turnover. I don't see them in decline, simply needing to improve in some areas. Offensively, they have a strong run game with Carson and Penny, good WRs with Metcalf and Lockett, and decent TEs with Dissly and Everett. But their OL is mediocre (ranked in the mid-teens) and because of their secondary issues, their defense is similarly ranked.

They only had 3 picks this year:

Tre Brown CB: Undersized at 5'10" but good speed timed at 4.3-4.4 ranges. Needs work on his technique, particularly as he had a rep in college for being "handsy" which will get flagged in the NFL. That is a symptom of a player who got beat. He also struggles to contest catches, i.e. he doesn't play beyond his length as Darious Williams does. Scouts say he's best playing downhill, i.e. a zone CB which explains his grabby nature. Drafted for his speed, but IMO a 2-year project at least.

Dwayne Eskridge WR: Taken right before Tutu and I can see why McVay was relieved. Undersized at 5'9" (shorter than Tutu) but with a similar 4.3 speed. Very raw with his route running, and his injury history is a concern. Inconsistent with his ability to track the ball, just average acceleration, inconsistent hands, and doesn't seem to play well in traffic. The primary impact IMO this year will be as a returner. His long-term is in doubt, as acceleration and inconsistent hands are the biggest flags on him.

Stone Forsythe OT: Like all late-round OTs he has work to do. That said if he can correct his issues they might have a decent OT. I think he projects as a LT because of his length and film. His length works against him in run blocking and it shows, which is why I say they might be looking at him as their LT at some time in the future. He's at best a 2-year project.

If a team had a poor draft I would have to add the Hawks to the list. But as long as they have Wilson and their core offense they will have a chance to win their share of games. I think it's more a matter of them not keeping up in the NFCW improvement much like AZ is struggling to do more than a real decline.

I say in decline because they are no longer dominating the league with their defense. The offense still has the same problems its had for the last three years too. They beat on the bad teams and crumble against good teams that play disciplined football. They are still good enough to compete but are nowhere near the Super Bowl contending team each year, that they were 2013 - 2016.

 

[oldnotdead]

We have different interpretations of decline. 1st to worst is a decline. Failure to dominate IMO isn't a decline if they are still winning. Good teams find different ways to win, while bad teams find different ways to lose.

Have they kept up with the Rams and Niners in terms of how both of these teams have dramatically improved their rosters? No but their roster remains basically the same in terms of talent. A decline would IMO means a decrease in talent. Like AZ they are treading water not drowning. The Hawks have been struggling with cap issues worse than the Rams. IMO it's a reflection of the differences in FO more than anything else. But it has limited their ability to make moves. They are in better shape now. Also, their roster simply has never been deep and they got hit pretty hard last season.

Another aspect of the difference between previous years started in 2019. When Carroll insisted upon resigning KJ Wright he announced then (in order to justify the signing) that they would play more base. The Hawks' base is a standard 4-3 and the problem with Wright is he is pretty slow and not the best if asked to cover. Case in point, the NFL average of teams playing their base scheme was a little over 27% but for the Hawks, they stayed in their base for almost 69% of their snaps relying upon Wagner to play the role of the nickel DB.

It's things like that which give the impression of a team lacking depth and the ability to change. But in reality, it all starts and ends with Carroll. He hamstrung Norton. When they did come out of their base it was almost always to a 3 safety nickel retaining their 2 LBs then dropping into their normal cover 3 with not much disguise. Their basic zone coverage wasn't well played partly due to players and some perhaps on the coaches. They gave up a large 7.25 yards average when in their nickel primarily because everyone has seen it for years and they did nothing to disguise it.

In other words, there were a lot of reasons for the Hawks not playing better last year despite their record. But when things break down it's often a combination of coaching decisions as much as the need for better talent. Carroll wields a lot of power in their drafts and FA signings which would explain a lot of their emphasis upon the offense at the expense of the defense. Signing Adams thinking he would improve their coverage is a prime example of Carroll's overreach. Adams is average to poor in coverage as anyone who bothered to break his play down can attest. He's an outside blitzer and that's it.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Decline: A gradual and continuous loss of strength, numbers, quality or value.

I think they have begun to decline