Any Chance We Stick With Our Current Ol?

[rhinobean]

I do want us to sign 1 free agent, Roger Saffold. It would make getting the line in order much easier!

 

[BonifayRam]

According to the stats on NFL.com, we ranked 8th in the league in sacks allowed and 19th in quarterback hits, so our line was above average last year.Having said that, there is absolutely no way we can rest on our laurels. Standing still in this league is tantamount to going backwards, as our rivals are only going to get better. We need to strengthen both guard spots (assuming Saffold doesn't come back) and find a swing tackle. I'm more than happy to dump both Wells and Dahl this off-season to make cap space. Barnes or Jones can fill in at center (if they've both hit the gym hard) and we can draft Dahl's replacement late in round one or early in round two of the draft. David Yankey is the guy I'd like: he has all-pro potential as a RG and could play tackle if needed.

Yes we did well in those stats just goes to show us what a mobile QB like Clemens can do to the stats to make the OL look better on paper than it was in reality. I of the opinion that if Sam had remained the QB that sacks total ranking would be in the 20's along with the hits. Say what you want about Clemens his mobility & awareness in the pocket served us well so lets hope the Rams don't take those stats & sit there all smug on how good we think the OL is, on top of that those stats got a serious helping from our running attack that took off after the bye too.

As we all know Rams have four starters from the last game that are not under any Ram contract. Snead most likely will spend some cap $$ on retaining center Tim Barnes that would be smart. Saffold we have discussed fully & fact is we do not have the cap funds to enter into that bidding war, so count him gone. Shelley Smith gone. Now veteran Chris Williams Snead could target once again. When you don't have Saffold the need of CW goes up plus when you have a Jake long unhealthy & rehabbing for a MCL/ACL it makes CW that much more a need @ OLT. So out of a bad ongoing situation with the loss of swing OT Saffold & injured Long you can almost be assured that Snead will try to find some cap funds somewhere to entice the Rams most physically sound & healthy 16 game starter in 2013 that's Chris Williams. CW could be a veteran presence in training camp/pre season & he could fill the starting OLT post as he did in game #17 in 2013 for Jake Long. You know I have always thought that CW was the weak link in the 2013 OL but now it looks like that weak link would be needed to help this OL in its weakened 2014 state & help fill all the voids in this 2014 OL.

Now you add in the fact that 3 (Harvey Dahl ORG, Scott Wells OC & Long OLT)....of the highest paid (two could be probable cap casualties) Ram OL starters & our most seasoned Ram OL'ers are in one stage or another of a rehabbing event from surgeries or broken leg. No telling if any of the three will return fully to their former playing abilities.

Outside of those previous mentioned seven Ram OL'ers you have one starter ORT Joe Barksdale, OL'ers Barrett Jones, Brandon Washington & M.Persons. Of those four healthy signed OL'ers only one has any starting experience. So when you look at this OL situation compared to the Rams 2014 DL, LB, ST, RB, WR, TE units its by far the most unsound and disturbing concerns by a far margin. That fact was backed up bt the ROD own poll on the Rams weakest units.

I really liked your short sound analysis of some of the suggested moves the Rams could undertake in this off season to possibly get this OL on the path of an upgrade. The Rams have very little cap funds meaning any additions will be very few. I think Yankey is a perfect replacement for Rodger Saffold and would start @ OLG from day one. Yankey could also play OLT if need be for a short time.

 

[BonifayRam]

I do want us to sign 1 free agent, Roger Saffold. It would make getting the line in order much easier!

Good Saturday Morning rhinobean, what if that Saffold return does not happen as I said whats your next move then?

 

[rhinobean]

Draft a guard and a tackle in the 1-2 rounds! Still need quality replacements.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Come on draft day! Want to see how disappointed I'll be with this draft! 2 high picks for the o line is the minimum I think should be drafted. 1st and second round!

I'm with you, man. Why not draft high end playmakers like Watkins or Clowney with our draft picks? We aren't gonna be in this position for a very long time so we need to make the most of it. I want the best playmakers now and draft the blue collar players early next year. We have guys under contract for the starting roles, let's focus on raw, gifted, depth players to build the trenches and get the top guys early. That's another implication of my OP. We don't have many holes like

I do want us to sign 1 free agent, Roger Saffold. It would make getting the line in order much easier!

They said they would offer him a fair deal, one he's worth, and whether or not he takes it is up to him. How bad does he wanna be a Ram? My feeling is not as bad as he wants close to LT money.

 

[BonifayRam]

I'm with you, man. Why not draft high end playmakers like Watkins or Clowney with our draft picks? We aren't gonna be in this position for a very long time so we need to make the most of it. I want the best playmakers now and draft the blue collar players early next year. We have guys under contract for the starting roles, let's focus on raw, gifted, depth players to build the trenches and get the top guys early. That's another implication of my OP. We don't have many holes like

They said they would offer him a fair deal, one he's worth, and whether or not he takes it is up to him. How bad does he wanna be a Ram? My feeling is not as bad as he wants close to LT money.

Not sure I understand you well here mr.stlouis so we have what guys under contract? What units the DL & WR units? Rams have more four OL'ers going into free agency & 3 Ol starters rehabbing where the Dl & WR units have zero in UFA's & rehabbing events. Rams have no OLG its ORG's (2 ORG 's went into UFA's & the other has had two injuries since he last started in October). Rams have no swing OT & the critical OLT starter just fresh out of surgery & rehabbing event yet to take place. So drafting a WR where we have no vacancies or injuries like Sammy Watkins would resolve all the issues in the OL? Can you help me understand your post here.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Not sure I understand you well here mr.stlouis so we have what guys under contract? What units the DL & WR units? Rams have more four OL'ers going into free agency & 3 Ol starters rehabbing where the Dl & WR units have zero in UFA's & rehabbing events. Rams have no OLG its ORG's (2 ORG 's went into UFA's & the other has had two injuries since he last started in October). Rams have no swing OT & the critical OLT starter just fresh out of surgery & rehabbing event yet to take place. So drafting a WR where we have no vacancies or injuries like Sammy Watkins would resolve all the issues in the OL? Can you help me understand your post here.

Oh man ... I actually didn't mean to post that first part. I wrote that last night because I go back and forth on Clowney and Watkins. I see it your way. That second part is what I meant to say. I'll edit it....


Yeah it won't let me, Disregard it. It's more valuable if we let Clowney go elsewhere. We got Quinn.

 

[laramsoriginal]

If the OL remains the same then expect the same results on offense...best case scenario tbh

 

[bluecollarram]

I don't think the OL will be the same. Snisher MO seems to be tight lipped, hell Fisher said his staff wouldn't change just before hiring Williams. Looks to me like they won't publicly say much about players either especially this time of year. My guess is they like high potential players early in the draft regardless of position so I expect OL to be addressed rounds 3 thru 7. Those picks make great teams find some gems like Bailey, Stacey, and Bam-Bam.

 

[BonifayRam]

Oh man ... I actually didn't mean to post that first part. I wrote that last night because I go back and forth on Clowney and Watkins. I see it your way. That second part is what I meant to say. I'll edit it....


Yeah it won't let me, Disregard it. It's more valuable if we let Clowney go elsewhere. We got Quinn.

Yep it does not permit us to delete..when I mess up I just go into edit and begin over to say what dumb stuff I have to say. The edit works as a delete then.

I am just fine with the DL'er Jadeveon Clowney with the #2 pick but I am sure NOT fine with the WR Sammy Watkins selection with the #2 pick. If the Rams were to trade down twice ...... First with the Browns where the Draft would have gone like this..
Houston#1-QB
Cleveland #2-QB
Jax Jags #3-QB
Then Snead trades again with lets say Atlanta #4 where they covet Jadeveon Clowney
Oakland #5-OT
StLouis #6 would be looking @ an OT or Sammy


Then I would be a little more less mad with Sammy as he selection but I just do not see where Sammy is a Top Five prospect talent in this draft. IMO he is somewhere between 10 & 13 in my list of 2014 prospects.

 

[fearsomefour]

I think Wells is back and Barnes is moved to LG. Also, I think we could see Dahl back at a reduced price. Harvey was the weaker link in last years line as he seemed to lose some lateral movement. I like Harvey but his game was always pretty much about power....hard to over power guys if you cant get into position anymore.
The Rams line, despite what many think, was not terrible last year. The injury to Long in particularly bad because he had really played very well post Dallas. Heading into FA/draft with no doubt as to the LT and RT spots makes things easier. If the Rams really believe Long will be ready week 1 with no major decline and Wells is retained, the only spots are G.
So, a couple of big questions.....is Saffold retained, we would all love it, everything we read indicates no. Do the coaches believe Barnes and or Jones is ready to step up to being week to week starters at G? Who knows. Barnes was solid at C last year. Better in the pass game than Wells in my opinion (his blocking, not calling pick ups ext) not as good in the run game. Jones is a complete unknown at this point. College awards mean nothing. If Saffold goes, which is likely, I dont see whole sale changes on a line that, while not spectacular, was not bad last year. I think Wells returns and Dahl may come back at a reduced price. None of that would keep me from draft a T in the first round and two lineman in the first three rounds.

 

[BonifayRam]

I think Wells is back and Barnes is moved to LG. Also, I think we could see Dahl back at a reduced price. Harvey was the weaker link in last years line as he seemed to lose some lateral movement. I like Harvey but his game was always pretty much about power....hard to over power guys if you cant get into position anymore.
The Rams line, despite what many think, was not terrible last year. The injury to Long in particularly bad because he had really played very well post Dallas. Heading into FA/draft with no doubt as to the LT and RT spots makes things easier. If the Rams really believe Long will be ready week 1 with no major decline and Wells is retained, the only spots are G.
So, a couple of big questions.....is Saffold retained, we would all love it, everything we read indicates no. Do the coaches believe Barnes and or Jones is ready to step up to being week to week starters at G? Who knows. Barnes was solid at C last year. Better in the pass game than Wells in my opinion (his blocking, not calling pick ups ext) not as good in the run game. Jones is a complete unknown at this point. College awards mean nothing. If Saffold goes, which is likely, I dont see whole sale changes on a line that, while not spectacular, was not bad last year. I think Wells returns and Dahl may come back at a reduced price. None of that would keep me from draft a T in the first round and two lineman in the first three rounds.

We have has some small bits of discussions on this buy no much about Tim Barnes & the possibility that he could play & start elsewhere.

Snead signing him would not be for too much they may look at him in long term wise in the reserve capacity to where they sign Tim Barnes to a 2 yr deal like for around 2 mil. TB will be entering his 4th season as a Ram TB has been on the master 53 player roster since Boudreau arrived. TB has played in 32 NFL games with 5 games where he finished as the starting center. TB has one game game as a starter & that was when he had Shelley, Chris & Brandon Washington beside him also with Rodger & Chris playing OLT too. One could forgive TB if he was rattled when he had Chris Williams @ OLT, Brandon Washington @ OLG & Shelley Smith to his right @ OG:eek:. I think your onto something here with TB not being looked at as strictly an center.

From what flv has investigated in the"Numbers Cap Ram world " Wells could be retained until late August without any cap penalties & buy more time to see if TB & Barrett Jones have shown the abilities & skills to be proficient @ both the OG's posts in the early 2014 season. If that were the case where TB & BJ could hold their own then Wells being retained would be worth the cap cost. Rams would still have 3 Ol'ers who could play OC but also play the other interior posts. TB played OG in HS and early college so he has some of that but was used @ OLG late in pre season games after he did his center time. I do not consider TB to be a long term starter for the Rams but he could hold the fort till some of the drafted rookie Ol'ers get up to NFL speed. I look at TB as a better full complete interior reserve & replacement for OG Shelley Smith. Would I say that TB is an upgrade to Smith?....ever so lightly the value comes from he will resign @ a lower cost and most likely he can play both OG posts as well plus we all know he can start @ center so yes a slight upgrade there.

On your Harvey Dahl comments sad but Harvey's time as a Ram starter would appear to have came & departed. He is the very easy released cap casualty (CC). The $ 4mil gained for Harvey Dahl's releasing would help sign back both Barnes & Chris Williams (who will be needed as the swing OT). As we saw last yr without Saffold available CW becomes the all important swing OT .CW is not an upgrade from Saffold. Not good! If Jake Long can get back to where he is 80% to 90% as to what he was @ OLT in 2013 we will still be OK @ OLT but if he has lost too much of the ability to battle the speeders then we are in serious trouble. To believe that the totally rebuilt body of Jake Long beginning in 2005 (the last 8 yrs) will be as good as he was in 2013?.....??... .....That's a bit of a stretch in my mind.

fearsomefour said "I dont see whole sale changes on a line that, while not spectacular, was not bad last year" I see a little bit more of a possible wholesale changes myself. There's a sizable amount of movement.

Known highly probable changes:
UFA Rodger Saffold starter ORT/ORG/Swing OT
UFA Chris Williams starter OLG/emergency Swing OT
UFA Shelley Smith top reserve OG& late season starter OG
Known questionable possible changes:
ERFA Tim Barnes top reserve OC & late season starter OC
CC/inj Harvey Dahl former starter @ ORG
CC/inj Scott Wells starting OC

 

[BonifayRam]

I agree with everything you stated above. As in my post your findings on how Wells contract is is very interesting and does show that the Rams Org. has its thinking cap on in this instant. I would have no beefs with the release of both SW & HD if the Rams happen to draft a OL'er with high pass pro skills. If not then they will spend some of that regained cap funds on a swing OT Chris Williams.

If Snead does decide that drafting several or more OL'ers is a good positive move for this 2014 team & the Rams are minus the four well seasoned vets SW/HD/CW/SS then this OL will be very green in the experience of the pass pro.....if that the case they will need to go hard & fast in OL the first two days to get the better Ol'ers who will be more prepared for the HD NFL!

 

[fearsomefour]

I keep bouncing around with O line changes....possible or likely, not likely ect.
I did a mock draft where I was drafting under the assumption Wells, Dahl, Saffold and Williams were all gone, Barnes and Smith retained. I also had the Rams signing Fernando Velasco, C, Steelers to replace Wells.
Any opinion of his game?

 

[max]

If you believe the reports from Demoff, they aren't resigning Saffold if he get LOT money of around $8mil. The Rams want Rodger at OG long term if they keep him. JT thinks Saffold is gone cause other teams will pay him LOT money. So its likely that we are gonna need another OG.

Demoff said the defense is playoff ready and the focus in the draft is on offense. He basically said the same thing Jeremiah said, the Rams may draft a backup QB in the 2nd or 3rd round.

I won't use the word need, but there certainly is a good match of talent and fit at the top of the first round at both the WR and OT positions. I'll be shocked if the first pick isn't Watkins, Matthews, or Robinson. And I'm leaning toward one of the OTs as the pick due to the perfect storm we have on the OL. Just so many question marks on the OL to ignore and when you bring in a great talent like Matthews or Robinson it certainly helps.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Demoff said the defense is playoff ready and the focus in the draft is on offense. He basically said the same thing Jeremiah said, the Rams may draft a backup QB in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Holy cow! He said that? Well he's a little less tight lipped the Snead lol. This is encouraging to me. It makes me me thik we might do something on the lines of...

-Trade back and draft Watkin (pick up a second and 4th)
-Trade 13 for a second rounder
Trade back again for another second rounder.
-Draft a CB in the mid 20's range

2 A) G
2 B) C
2 C) T

3) FS
3)QB Trade both 4th's

5 BPA
6 BPA
7) ^ trade up

VERY good draft.

 

[blackbart]

Does anyone really care about this statement about health? The only reason I would is if it comes true and they don't try to upgrade the worse unit on the team. I think there is way too much emphasis being put on that statement, who cares????

I would hate going into the year with that O line, I want a winning season and the only way that has a chance to happen is to keep Sam healthy. Having a dominant O line is the way for this team to progress to that playoff level, just being good enough is not good enough any more. The level of expectation in the NFCW has been raised and the Rams need to step up.

 

[BonifayRam]

Does anyone really care about this statement about health? The only reason I would is if it comes true and they don't try to upgrade the worse unit on the team. I think there is way too much emphasis being put on that statement, who cares????

I would hate going into the year with that O line, I want a winning season and the only way that has a chance to happen is to keep Sam healthy. Having a dominant O line is the way for this team to progress to that playoff level, just being good enough is not good enough any more. The level of expectation in the NFCW has been raised and the Rams need to step up.

Did I miss something above ? "Does anyone really care about this statement about health? " Who made THIS STATEMENT blackbart?

 

[blackbart]

Did I miss something above ? "Does anyone really care about this statement about health? " Who made THIS STATEMENT blackbart?

according to Snead. We're suppose to throw health out the window when talking about replacing guys like Finn, Long, and Dahl. I know Snead said sometinkg like this in one of his interviews but like everything else this time of year I don't buy it for one second. Guys get older and more injured and either retire or get cut. And hopefully that is the case with Wells Dahl and especially Finnegan