An honest inquiry about the Tush Push

[kmramsfan]

I agree with all of that.
He can keep pushing and all that if he wants. If the refs blow the whistle the play is dead and its their job to spot the ball.
Because he is kinda of body surfing on his lineman and isn't down there is some leeway and blah, blah......
I hope it gets banned this offseason.

I think that the play could just go away on it's own, if the officials would do their jobs and call the infractions.
The Iggles have just done to this play what every other team does when it comes to things like holding, PI, wide out pick plays and so on.
See where they'll call it, and go that far with it without getting flagged.

 

[Mackeyser]

My view of the tush push has traditionally been that it's up to the defense to stop it, so I opposed banning it. That said, if the refs aren't going to call the play fairly, they should ban it. As I see it, the options are ban it or call penalties from the booth if the refs on the field won't do it. When the Eagles are false starting every single time and getting away with it because the refs can't see the ball, it's cheating.

OP, to answer your question, not all those guys are on the LOS. Three are off the LOS. As for them letting Hurts off the hook for fumbling, it is BS. If he wants to body surf, wriggle for yards, and reach the ball out, he should have to pay the price. He was still fighting for yards when Kobie (IIRC) ripped it out. Should have been a fumble.

I disagree. It became allowed when the refs stopped enforcing the rule that no offensive player can aid the ball carrier forward by pushing them, lifting them or aiding them directly.

Now, it’s morphed into a damned rugby scrum where as many as three people push the QB and because of the short distance to gain, they have essentially given up trying to call things like offsides on the offense (center over the ball) or false start (the guards getting a head start is a MASSIVE advantage)

The old rules were correct and this current mess is expressly due to laziness and inaction by the refs and competition committee.

Can’t wait for the ban of this play.

 

[majrleaged]

Given the prevalence of uncalled false starts on tush push plays, I've gotta believe they are being coached to go early and to keep doing it as long as it's not going to be called.

The NFL doesn't want a bunch of flags and the coaches know this. Yes they coach it.

 

[Mackeyser]

The NFL doesn't want a bunch of flags and the coaches know this. Yes they coach it.

Same thing Belichick did in Super Bowl 36.

 

[majrleaged]

Same thing Belichick did in Super Bowl 36.

Yes. That is when it started. Then they used that tactic to shut down Manning and from there everyone is doing it. Now Philly has started doing it in false starts and lining up illegally, daring the refs to call it. The last place they will start call that is in Philly's own stadium.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I didn't hear the whistle either. I didn't think about that being a factor in the play so when it was stripped, I was like, hey that makes sense you run that risk.

I always thought the tush push was the dive/other players helping him forward, the reach, and the play is dead. Like once you do that you gave yourself up. That obviously isn't the case so you would think it should be a strip/fumble because otherwise when the hell is the play dead? It's like what is the criteria for the whistle to be blown? Is it whenever the ref feels like it/until they get the first down?

Yeah...that's kind of BS.

 

[rdlkgliders]

I didn't hear the whistle either. I didn't think about that being a factor in the play so when it was stripped, I was like, hey that makes sense you run that risk.

I always thought the tush push was the dive/other players helping him forward, the reach, and the play is dead. Like once you do that you gave yourself up. That obviously isn't the case so you would think it should be a strip/fumble because otherwise when the hell is the play dead? It's like what is the criteria for the whistle to be blown? Is it whenever the ref feels like it/until they get the first down?

Yeah...that's kind of BS.

Exactly, This was the impetus for my post.
It will meet it's end by some direct response or circumstance. There just isn't any real longevity in gimmicks of this nature.

 

[RamBall]

Until they suffer some consequence they will continue to run it. A few flags could prevent the inevitable injury.

 

[fearsomefour]

I think that the play could just go away on it's own, if the officials would do their jobs and call the infractions.
The Iggles have just done to this play what every other team does when it comes to things like holding, PI, wide out pick plays and so on.
See where they'll call it, and go that far with it without getting flagged.

I don't think they will call it however.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

I still don't understand why verse didn't make a bigger deal about his strip. He made a motion to the refs that he stripped the ball then let it go. He knew he did it before the whistle. Why didn't he motion to Mcvay to throw the red flag?

.

 

[Steve808]

It's officially time to ban the tush push. I was never against banning plays because a team was good at it, but the refs are either conspiring to help the iggles, incompetent or who knows? The Iggles seem to have like 30% false starts on the tush push but I've never seen one called. Today, the Giants stole the ball as Hurts was trying to push the ball forward. The refs said they blew the whistle but the replay clearly showed the whistle blown after the ball was firmly in the arms of a Giants defender.

So basically, there is no way to stop this because if you take it away, it's a quick whistle and if you don't, then they keep pushing forward until they make the line to gain. If not, they false start and you can't stop it.

It's time to ban this play, in my opinion.

 

[rdlkgliders]

It's officially time to ban the tush push. I was never against banning plays because a team was good at it, but the refs are either conspiring to help the iggles, incompetent or who knows? The Iggles seem to have like 30% false starts on the tush push but I've never seen one called. Today, the Giants stole the ball as Hurts was trying to push the ball forward. The refs said they blew the whistle but the replay clearly showed the whistle blown after the ball was firmly in the arms of a Giants defender.

So basically, there is no way to stop this because if you take it away, it's a quick whistle and if you don't, then they keep pushing forward until they make the line to gain. If not, they false start and you can't stop it.

It's time to ban this play, in my opinion.

The play is surrounded by controversy and will remain so until completely overhauled or banned.
We know that the NFL only clutters rules even more when they "fix" rule problems so I favor some sort of rule change that bans it in it's present state.


Collinsworth of all people today during the Steelers v Packers asked the rules official what exactly constitutes a catch and the same could be asked about PI.
The rules seem to be made to be interpeted (cough -cough) objectively by design.
Black and white is how I want them, take the zebras who ironically where black and white out of the possible outcome of games due to judgement.

 

[fanotodd]

If the play was whistled dead, that was a fair call. If it was not then that was a live ball and a BS call by the refs.

I don't remember hearing a whistle and don't have access to replay rn.

In the Rams game, it sounded as if Verse was already headed the other way with the ball when the whistle blew.
Yesterday was worse! The g-men CLEARLY ripped the ball away before there was a whistle. He was on the ground recovering it when you could hear a whistle blow.

What really stinks is the league said it was gonna do a better job of officiating this play. I literally had just seen the bills get called TWICE for procedure penalties on QB sneaks before changing games and seeing the eagles fumble.

What is the excuse for not calling false starts? It’s easy to see. You are looking right down the LOS at the nose of the football. If a helmet breaks that plane prior to snap it’s a penalty. Pure and simple.

The tush push has to go away—Not because it can’t be defended, but because it cannot be FAIRLY officiated.

 

[fanotodd]

Until an officiating crew has the balls to call it against the Eagles it will continue. I believe sometime this year that will happen, but it takes balls which most of the officiating crews don’t seem to have.

Exactly. As I mentioned in my previous post, I saw it being officiated tighter in another game. I have seen a couple other penalties in other weeks, but NOT the eagles!

I’m just not seeing this play officiated fairly—no matter how you look at it.

 

[PARAM]

If it's a play that's almost "impossible" to officiate and as equally controversial, outlaw the fucker! It's not a football play, it's a true rugby scrum. The NFL just doesn't want to offend nice-guy Jeffrey Lurie and are certain to suffer serious media whining by Nick Siriani. The optics wouldn't be good. So start flagging it EVERY TIME. That would be extremely easy. Too many guys on the line of scrimmage; not enough guys on the LOS; lined up off sides; forward motion stopped; etc. . That one yesterday was a fucking fumble and clearly you didn't call that correctly because the rugby play is so hard to officiate, so outlaw it NOW!!! We pay to watch football, not rugby or wrestling.

 

[Faceplant]

I must have missed, it, but when did the rules change? In the past, you could not aid another players fwd motion. Nowadays we see piles pushing players for an extra 5 or more yards after initial forward progress appears to be stopped. I always wondered when that rule changed, because that wasn't a thing in the 70,s/80s/90s that I can recall.

 

[Allen2McVay]

I must have missed, it, but when did the rules change?

Several years ago ... pre-tush-push.
Did a quick search of exactly when but could not find the year the rule was changed.

 

[El Chapo Jr]

Fuck this play, fuck the crooked ass refs that favor the Eagles on this play, fuck the Eagles, and fuck the NFL for allowing this BS illegal play to happen.

 

[El Chapo Jr]

.

I still don't understand why verse didn't make a bigger deal about his strip. He made a motion to the refs that he stripped the ball then let it go. He knew he did it before the whistle. Why didn't he motion to Mcvay to throw the red flag?

.

Apparently can't challenge when they blow a play dead due to stopping forward progress.....its straight bullshit how they decide to blow phantom whistles if Philly fumbles

 

[Allen2McVay]

Fuck this play, fuck the crooked ass refs that won't favor the Eagles on this plat, fuck the Eagles, and fuck the NFL for allowing this BS illegal play to happen.