After four years of Jeff Fisher, Rams' regression means it's time for change/Wagoner

[FrankenRam]

I like Jeff Fisher and I believe his teams plays hard for him overall. I also liked his draft picks and strategy and trades. The Rams have been decimated by injuries over the last three years. Unfortunately, the offense is so bad in fisher's fourth year that the organization needs to make a change at the end of the season. Of course I will be hoping that the Rams somehow manage to win out the rest of their schedule, and save Fisher's job, but I don't think that's gonna happen. Just my opinion.

There does seem to be an inevitability in the ways things are going, doesn't there.

IMO, Fisher has a bit too much of a riverboat gambler in him for his own good when it comes to player acquisition. It seems particularly acute when it comes to the draft, but has also been a factor in some FA acquisitions as well.

For example.....at the time they were signed, both Wells and Jake Long were risks given their injury history. Signing them was a gamble. Had either one of them paid off, things would almost certainly be considerably different today. And if they both had paid off, we'd be sitting pretty right now. In both cases, I kinda puckered up at the risk Fisher was taking in signing each. But for an OL in desperate need of a quick infusion of talent, I understood the strategy. Risky....or 'riverboat gamblery', but not crazy either. Unfortunately, the gamble didn't pay off in either case.

When it comes to the draft, it seems like he always values upside over 'solid consistent contributor' types. See Pead, Quick, and probably GRob. Maybe thrown in others like Joyner, and even Tavon to a degree (although it does appear TA is finally paying off this year). And while risks, or 'projects', can and should be taken occasionally, I think there's some balance needed in doing so....especially with early round picks.

Combine this sort of gambling approach to player acquisition and his willingness to be very aggressive with his defensive strategy, his seeming pretty conservative philosophy of offensive strategy is rather puzzling.

 

[FrankenRam]

Don't count me as one of them. The draft is a crapshoot, and Snead has shot crap, as well as anybody, IMO. Even gave us more chances to succeed. Snead's ability to move around, and gain picks is above average, at least.

Plus, I really like his hair, it's so dreamy.

Snead strikes me as the type of guy who is just comfortable in his own skin no matter the environment he finds himself in. I think he would fit in well hob-knobbing with the well healed crowd that 'The Silent One' is part of, but would be just as comfortable in the roughest biker bar you can find shootin' pool and throwin' down a few brewskies. Obviously, I have no idea if that's remotely true, but from the limited face time I've observed in his media sessions, that's the way he comes off to me. **IF** that's remotely accurate, I would think that would be a major plus when it comes time to haggle with other teams.

I wish I had hair...any hair.

 

[VegasRam]

Fair question. Iffy, but honestly... yes. I believe SK, LS and JF had a 5 year plan, and I'd like to see them finish. I'm also, despite what I've seen with my own eyes, not convinced Foles is as bad as he looks, as I think our receivers are dogshit - all of them. Not counting TA as a WR. The only two I'd keep, including TEs are Harkey, Marquez and Bailey.
I also think they knew they weren't going anywhere this year with that Oline, but were confident it would jell in year 5. And if Mannion is to have a chance, I don't want him to have to switch schemes, coaches and playbooks in what could be his first year actually getting on the field.

There are also quite a few important Free Agency decisions coming up next year that would be resolved, if we in fact do end up with a new coaching staff, which would make the transition easier, and imo attract better coaches.
Finally, there's the possible move, which though not a huge factor, would probably be smoother with Fisher.

That said, he's not AT A MINIMUM, 10-6 next year, fire his ass.

 

[drasconis]

I don't want Fisher gone, especially not when the difference between 4-7 and 6-5 is basically 2 field goals. And every team has injuries, but losing Quinn, Ogletree, Long and Gaines is a killer.
Kneejerk (courtesy Queen) "I want it all, and I want it now" mentality just makes me tired. It's as american as apple pie, but with fans, it's over the top.

Give JF his five years, and look at an extension at the end of '16 - problem being, that doesn't seem like the way it works. With a year left on their contract, seems like coaches either get canned or extended.
This sounds (to some - maybe most - of us), like a tired excuse, but the "He's had 4 years" mantra is a bit unfair given what he inherited, ESPECIALLY with what's happened at the QB position, but it's still true nonetheless.
But if the Rams clean house, we STILL don't have a QB or decent WRs, (and lack of WRs IS Fisher's fault), so what good will it do?

Maybe more discipline, not a JF strong suit, and a new OC (might help, but still think it's the QB). The Oline should be OK next year, (and even have experienced depth).
The D won't be any better, and might regress. Drafting won't be better, although it can be argued that it's been a bit one-sided. And I don't want GW gone either, (or Snead, though he's not necessarily tied to Fisher).

So seriously, what will we gain with a new coach? Panthers were 7-8-1 last year, and this is Rivera's 5th year. Continuity boys...continuity. If we suck next year, fire his ass, but not now.

(Aside - his having gone through a move has absolutely no relevance at all in this discussion - I don't even know what that means).

A lot of coaches get 3 year contracts not 5...as has been pointed out in other threads 4 years of losing hasn't resulted in many coaches keeping their jobs...

I have said before and will keep saying it year 5 should be for proof of repeated success, not a point of starting to succeed. So what if he makes playoffs next year? 1 out 5 good enough for 3 more? what happens when you do that and the team goes back to 8-8 or worse in year 6? You needed playoffs this year, 1 and done you hold till next year planning for midyear renewal if the team is performing well at that point, they tank and you can bail. If he had a deep run this year then you might skip the prove you can do twice year 5 part and extend. As it is we won't make playoffs this year, so there really is no point in year 5 since it only gives you half of the equation.

The Rivera comparison is worthless, yes they were down last year, but they were 12-4 in his 3rd year, plus even with that record he made the playoffs. So in his first 4 years he broke .500 and made the playoffs twice...he earned the 5th year. If the panthers were 4-7 this year there would be talk of letting him go even with that. By comparison JF hasn't broke .500 and hasn't made the playoffs.

 

[VegasRam]

Panthers have a QB. Who can also run. Who is 6'-5", and weighs 250 lbs. but Fisher's supposed to go to the SuperBowl with Kelken Clemens, Austin Davis , Case Keenum and Nick Foles. And he is supposed to have drafted this next great QB, and that next great QB and the other great QB, when he takes over a team that had 27 players that were NOT PLAYING IN THE NFL a year after he cut them.

Keep ignoring it, keep talking around it, keep going back 20 years, keep doing whatever you want, but without a QB, we ( and every other franchise in the NFL in the same boat) are (is) fucked. :headexplosion:

(Drops the mike).

 

[Riverumbbq]

I don't have a clue which way this Fisher saga will turn, whether fired after the season or getting to complete his 5 year contract, especially with a fan base and the local media well prepared to crucify him, but I do believe he can turn this thing around next year. And he'll have to do it with the coaches he has on hand, as being in the final year of his own contract it's doubtful he'll be able to sign any potentially new assistants for more than a single season.
The Rams were seriously looking at a winning season, perhaps even play-off bound, prior to an avalanche of injuries. Losing Gaines out of the gate, then Ogletree, Long, Quinn, Brown, Saffold, Havenstein, Williams & Donnal, ... pretty much did-in our pass rush capability and the already suspect young O-Line. And then Bailey gets shot in the head, … I mean … c'mon.
Sure, we were nowhere near elite, but we did have the potential makings of a 9 - 7 team when it all came unraveled. We were 4 - 3 at one point with 3 straight wins against our conference rivals.
If Fisher can modify like we hope our near all rookie O-Line should develop, then he will learn and adapt, … or his NFL coaching career is likely finished. We have learned that Foles can't possibly be considered a permanent fixture starting at QB or Robinson at LT, also, you will always struggle with 4 extremely inexperienced starting offensive linemen. While I can't blame Fisher for the injuries, I can blame him for putting us in such a poor situation. We have also learned that we need consistently effective receivers. It can be done, it's not an impossible task, the question is whether Fisher and his 20 years on the battlefield is capable of changing tactics. Will he seriously reexamine strategy and sacrifice loyalty to make the necessary deep changes for a 'hail-mary' saving of his career ? Next season our youngest will have a season of experience and development under their belts, and there appears no reason our temporarily injured & IR'd players won't be back full strength, so yes, this team should have what it takes to get to the next level. Fisher will need to hit on this upcoming free agency and draft like none other, but I believe he can turn it around. Problem is it's likely to get much uglier throughout the remainder of this season, the wolves are already sniffing at tasting the prey that lay before them.
Kroenke appears to be a patient man, so like it or not, i'm guessing Fisher gets his 5'th year if the Rams move to L.A., … but if a final decision is made for the team to remain in St.Louis within a reasonable time-frame leading into the off-season, all bets are off. My only hope now is that if he stays, he takes on this challenge as the fight of his NFL life, and doesn't go out with a whimper.
jmo.

 

[OldSchool]

Fisher is 12 losses from the most all time. The three coaches with more than him average 90 more wins and 17 more playoff games. These stats just reinforced to me that we should make a change.

 

[SixthGauge]

Panthers have a QB. Who can also run. Who is 6'-5", and weighs 250 lbs. but Fisher's supposed to go to the SuperBowl with Kelken Clemens, Austin Davis , Case Keenum and Nick Foles. And he is supposed to have drafted this next great QB, and that next great QB and the other great QB, when he takes over a team that had 27 players that were NOT PLAYING IN THE NFL a year after he cut them.

Keep ignoring it, keep talking around it, keep going back 20 years, keep doing whatever you want, but without a QB, we ( and every other franchise in the NFL in the same boat) are (is) freaked. :headexplosion:

(Drops the mike).

Fair enough, a QB is an important piece. The Bradford injuries have set this team back. However, Philly made the playoffs with Nick Foles, and Arizona made the playoffs winning as many games with Palmer as they did without. The Niners almost won a Super Bowl with Kaepernick and he looks the furthest thing from a franchise QB right now.

You even said yourself that if we're not 10-6 next year, we should fire his ass. Unless the Rams have something in Mannion, I have a hard time believing our QB situation will be much better next year. So even you at least agree that at some point, franchise QB be damned, you have to find a way to succeed.

 

[Ozoneranger]

My prediction with a caveat: Fisher gets extended for two years...after the league decides which team(s) move to LA. Otherwise, his future with the Rams is tenuous. All bets are off.

Here's why...while he gets a pass for losing an above average starting QB twice, he's made three egregious errors:

1. Hiring Gregg Williams as DC. I know, to some on ROD the guy is a genius, a veritable god. To me, his tactics are questionable and now predictable (see how the Bears' Gace schooled him- that was a classic bitch-slapping) and his players are undisciplined, with penalties and missed assignements three years into the system.

2. His obstinate disregard to today's offensive football. An afterthought reinforced by hiring the inexperienced and incompetent Cignetti.

3. His ultimate downfall- building a line consisting of first or second year players with no depth. At the end of last season, it was clear holes had to be filled with vets via free-agency or trade. It could have been accomplished. Going into camp, that's all I looked at...the line. As they went, so did the team.

 

[Rams43]

I think LoyalRam may have said it best.

After 4 years Fisher hasn't got it done.

Extra credits to Loyal for being so pithy, too.

Worse, Fisher's W/L trajectory is steadily downwards.

Any test pilot would pull the eject handle on this one. Back to the drawing boards, fellas.