A little like Spags?

[LetsGoRams]

I don't think it was sole reason he was let go, but it, coupled with the 2011 season was. Spags was well-recieved inthe beginning, after Linny. Who had his own issues, couldn't get along with star players, or so-called star players and he had a bad temper, was on the paranoid side. Spags wore thin because he came in an wanted to "change the culture" and all he did was take a bad situation and made it worse.

That said, I wanted Spags. I didn't know these issues existed . . . perhaps no one knew because he never was a head coach anywhere. But, in his zeal to change the culture he screwed a lot of good people who were seemingly good enough for Vermeil, all of them were there win Rams were winning. To me, the issue with control freaks is they need to focus on the field, the game, the players, the coaching. They shouldn't try to change a culture by firing people who had nothing to do with wins or losses to bring in a few buddies for patronage jobs.

And to those who lived through it hated it, they didn't know if they were going to be berated by Spags, fired, or what. Spags did that with Hewitt, the trainer, and others. The me the moral of the story, is until you've proven yourself a good head coach, perhaps you shouldn't wield you power plays so widely. The story wasn't covered that much, only a little, but Spags was known to many as a Neopoleanesque firgure there.

Funny story about Linehan's temper:

I was golfing at the Links of Dardenne out near O'Fallon, MO when Linehan was the head coach. He just happened to be in the group right in front of us. Seemed like a pleasant enough guy before the round - talked to me a bit. He was golfing with Adam Carriker, the summer after we drafted him in the first round, along with another couple guys I didn't know.

Linehan had the worst temper of anyone I've ever seen on a golf course. F-bombs on pretty much every hole. Throwing clubs. Hitting balls and throwing balls into the woods. It was comical. I couldn't believe the tantrums being displayed in public by an NFL head coach. The same team I had season tickets to!

 

[Rmfnlt]

The problem with such statements is that it's assuming W-L record is solely on the coach. In many cases it is not.

Such as 2009 with inheriting nothing and having a REAL rebuild to do, or 2011 with all the injuries. I don't see any coaches doing noticeably better than Spags did under such circumstances.

But at this point, everyone's made up their minds, and there's not really much point in rehashing the whole Spags argument again.

Most Rams fans today look at our current head coach's record with the Rams and cite a few reasons why we're not above .500:
1] They had to clean house
2] Injuries (especially Bradford)
3] Youth

The way I remember it, Spagnuolo was up against similar circumstances.
1] He had to clean the Linehan house which, IMO, was far worse than clening the Spagnuolo house.
2] Especially in 2011, he encountered injuries on a scale Jeff Fisher has not even come close to (thank God)
3] He also built a very young team

Win, and being a control freak is OK. Lose? Well, like you say, people will pick the one thing they want to associate with the head coach and that will be the "problem".

The problem to me was, as X suggests, he failed to win enough games that last season. One of the issues - to me - was that he tried to get over the hump by brining in some aged vets. Just backfired on him.

Like you said, "everyone's made up their minds" but few people in Rams recent history elicit such strong negative responses as Steve Spagnuolo.

It always seemed over the top to me... especially once he was let go.

He's the Defensive Backs and Assistant Head Coach on a playoff team. Good for him.

 

[Boffo97]

He had to clean the Linehan house which, IMO, was far worse than clening the Spagnuolo house.

I agree with most of that, but tend to look at it in terms of what he inherited vs what Spags inherited. It's easy to dismiss it as "a few players", but it's GOOD players at the most important positions.

One of the issues - to me - was that he tried to get over the hump by brining in some aged vets. Just backfired on him.

That was something I criticized him for. But you can understand why he did it. 2011 was his contract year since the Rams weren't going to have him coach in 2012 with one year remaining on the contract (just as I think Fisher is going to be either renewed or fired after this year).

But I still feel that injuries were far and away the leading problem in 2011.

As far as the strong responses against Spags? I think it was solely the fact that it was still possible in Week 17 to get to the playoffs. Fisher has lost against Seattle in Seattle on Week 17 all 3 years now, and it's never gotten that same strong reaction. People put that loss solely on Spags and thus he got the blame for the next year too. Me, I saw that as Spags had the team playing out of their minds to even have 7 wins that year given that it's more than the team had won in the past 3 years combined.

It's just like how many turned on Martz after SB36 IMO.

 

[LesBaker]

I agree with most of that, but tend to look at it in terms of what he inherited vs what Spags inherited. It's easy to dismiss it as "a few players", but it's GOOD players at the most important positions.


That was something I criticized him for. But you can understand why he did it. 2011 was his contract year since the Rams weren't going to have him coach in 2012 with one year remaining on the contract (just as I think Fisher is going to be either renewed or fired after this year).

But I still feel that injuries were far and away the leading problem in 2011.

As far as the strong responses against Spags? I think it was solely the fact that it was still possible in Week 17 to get to the playoffs. Fisher has lost against Seattle in Seattle on Week 17 all 3 years now, and it's never gotten that same strong reaction. People put that loss solely on Spags and thus he got the blame for the next year too. Me, I saw that as Spags had the team playing out of their minds to even have 7 wins that year given that it's more than the team had won in the past 3 years combined.

It's just like how many turned on Martz after SB36 IMO.

Martz didn't lose me until 2002. The SB was a poor effort on his part and was a winnable game had he done things differently. But 2002 was a sorry excuse for football coaching.

I'm going to see if I can hijack this thread and have it morph into a Warner/Bulger fight. Is that cool with you admins?

 

[Blue and Gold]

Funny story about Linehan's temper:

I was golfing at the Links of Dardenne out near O'Fallon, MO when Linehan was the head coach. He just happened to be in the group right in front of us. Seemed like a pleasant enough guy before the round - talked to me a bit. He was golfing with Adam Carriker, the summer after we drafted him in the first round, along with another couple guys I didn't know.

Linehan had the worst temper of anyone I've ever seen on a golf course. F-bombs on pretty much every hole. Throwing clubs. Hitting balls and throwing balls into the woods. It was comical. I couldn't believe the tantrums being displayed in public by an NFL head coach. The same team I had season tickets to!

Add explosive temper to paranoia and you have a problem if you are a head coach. Now, as an OC, he's had success but he and Sapgs were not ready for prime time as HCs, but as coordinators, they did have success.