A few observations..... Boras/Keenum - Cignetti/Foles & OLINE

[jrry32]

The price for Tim Barnes went up significantly after this year. He will sign a nice free agent contract with someone. You center "experts"make me laugh.

No, it didn't.

My bad. I see the "average" tag was posted by jjab360 immediately after yours. So I guess I quoted the wrong post.

That being said, I stand by my comments as to Barnes getting better and will disagree that he needs to be replaced.

He doesn't need to be replaced. But we can upgrade on him.

Agree with you on Keenum, but not on Boras. I'm getting a good feeling about him all the way around. Many who attended training camps spoke highly about him as did the likes of D'Marco Farr and other former players. He's very intense and might be a perfect match with Fisher and besides he looks the part or is it that I just like the surname "Boras?"

He looks like the lumberjack version of Gregg Williams.

 

[CoachO]

Again, that's cool, but I never said replaced either. I said that we could get better at the position, which includes backups, BTW. I said he wasn't dominant, and I stand by everything I said too.

It's funny how people cherry pick, and try to make an argument. I agreed with almost every single thing you said. That's good enough for me. I liked your original post.

Not trying to cherry pick. Sorry if it came across that way. I was merely reiterating my thoughts. More of a general reply than isolating on anything you said specifically.

 

[den-the-coach]

He looks like the lumberjack version of Gregg Williams.

Maybe that's why I like him I will take the offensive equivalent to Gregg Williams although Seattle fans will just complain that Ram offensive players are trying to injure their players running over them.

 

[Warner4Prez]

To be fair force feeding Tavon was working for this offense as he was often the only one churning out any significant yardage. A couple weeks ago he was averaging over 10 YPC which is astronomical in the NFL and well ahead of a record setting pace (not sure if this is still the case going into week 17, but I think Football Outsiders had a nice write up like 3 weeks back).

The sweep (and its oft ran decoy) serve this offense a fine purpose. It might be a bit too cutesie for some of you guys, but it opens up some breathing room for T3G0 too.

 

[CoachO]

To be fair force feeding Tavon was working for this offense as he was often the only one churning out any significant yardage. A couple weeks ago he was averaging over 10 YPC which is astronomical in the NFL and well ahead of a record setting pace (not sure if this is still the case going into week 17, but I think Football Outsiders had a nice write up like 3 weeks back).

The sweep (and its oft ran decoy) serve this offense a fine purpose. It might be a bit too cutesie for some of you guys, but it opens up some breathing room for T3G0 too.

As a runner, sure. As an every down WR is sabotaging the entire offense.

I have no issues with running the jet sweep, when it can be set up properly. But Cignetti was running it almost every series and it's become way too predictable.

What I want to see more of, is Tavon out of the backfield as a receiver. They ran a basic swing pass on a circle route with him lined up as a RB yesterday. He was isolated and made the guy miss with a classic spin move and picked up 15 yards. That is exactly how he should be "schemed" in this offense. It was how he had most of his success at WVU. Line him up in different positions, (he is NOT an every down wideout) and how you use him becomes less predictable.

 

[blackbart]

Good read Coach.

I think the oline coming together combined with Keenum and his quicker tempo have brought the offense up to a level needed by this team to have a chance to win each week. If I recall correctly you said exactly what we saw in preseason once the season started. Foles is slow everything about him, good guy, tried really hard to be a leader but just took FOREVER to get through a play. Keenum was the better QB even in August.

Getting the ball out quicker helps the oline helps the receivers and makes the offense click. The drive to get the Gurley TD was exactly what the needed, minus the two fumbles. (For God's sake stay on the ground Gurley!!!)

All of that came together at exactly the right time. 4th Quarter late in the year on the road to seal a win. Something us Rams' fans haven't seen in a long long long long time.

 

[Warner4Prez]

As a runner, sure. As an every down WR is sabotaging the entire offense.

I have no issues with running the jet sweep, when it can be set up properly. But Cignetti was running it almost every series and it's become way too predictable.

What I want to see more of, is Tavon out of the backfield as a receiver. They ran a basic swing pass on a circle route with him lined up as a RB yesterday. He was isolated and made the guy miss with a classic spin move and picked up 15 yards. That is exactly how he should be "schemed" in this offense. It was how he had most of his success at WVU. Line him up in different positions, (he is NOT an every down wideout) and how you use him becomes less predictable.

Agreed. He's not going to evolve into a 70+ catch 1000 yard guy, but I do feel his receiving yards can and should be higher than where they're at now. It's all about finding more ways to get him in space, which is apparently really hard to do.

 

[…..]

As a runner, sure. As an every down WR is sabotaging the entire offense.

I have no issues with running the jet sweep, when it can be set up properly. But Cignetti was running it almost every series and it's become way too predictable.

Pretty much what I said after week 6......

Of course I was lambasted by some. But a few quietly agreed by "liking" my thoughts as I desperately tried to explain that I didnt wan't to minimize
Tavons impact, rather I wanted to better his touches to something more reasonable and less predictable.

 

[CoachO]

Agreed. He's not going to evolve into a 70+ catch 1000 yard guy, but I do feel his receiving yards can and should be higher than where they're at now. It's all about finding more ways to get him in space, which is apparently really hard to do.

Because he isn't an accomplished receiver.

There is a reason they have to hand him the ball or throw him bubble screens to get the ball in hands.

One perfect example yesterday was a crossing route he ran on 3rd down. He cut off the route five yards short of the chains and ran it under the coverage of the LBs. When the ball was thrown he ends up running right into the coverage and drops the ball.

On the deep sideline route he didn't give himself a chance by being pushed too far outside and actually catches the ball out of bounds. That he even caught the ball was newsworthy because he rarely wins contested balls due to his lack of size.

His success as a WR has come strictly when facing straight man coverage. His speed allows him to run away from defenders on crossing routes. The problem has been teams RARELY play anything but zone against him which nullifies him as a downfield pass catcher.

 

[jrry32]

As a runner, sure. As an every down WR is sabotaging the entire offense.

I have no issues with running the jet sweep, when it can be set up properly. But Cignetti was running it almost every series and it's become way too predictable.

What I want to see more of, is Tavon out of the backfield as a receiver. They ran a basic swing pass on a circle route with him lined up as a RB yesterday. He was isolated and made the guy miss with a classic spin move and picked up 15 yards. That is exactly how he should be "schemed" in this offense. It was how he had most of his success at WVU. Line him up in different positions, (he is NOT an every down wideout) and how you use him becomes less predictable.

If we had Eric Decker and Brandon Marshall ahead of him and had to send one of the two to the bench for Austin to play, you would have a point. But the one guy, other than Todd Gurley, that actually receives attention from the defense is not sabotaging our offense.

 

[CoachO]

If we had Eric Decker and Brandon Marshall ahead of him and had to send one of the two to the bench for Austin to play, you would have a point. But the one guy, other than Todd Gurley, that actually receives attention from the defense is not sabotaging our offense.

As a WR he is. Line him up in other positions beyond an every down WR and he would be even more of a threat.

 

[jrry32]

As a WR he is. Line him up in other positions beyond an every down WR and he would be even more of a threat.

Line him up where? He can't line up at HB when Todd Gurley is on the field. He's not sabotaging our offense. He actually takes focus away from Gurley and is able to dictate how teams defend him.

There's not a guy that deserves to be playing over him.

 

[fearsomefour]

I seriously doubt it, he's been average at best.

He has been good overall. A few hiccups, but, a few games were he has been damned good.
I hope the Rams wrap him up and don't let him hit the open market because there will be a market for him.

 

[fearsomefour]

If the above was not bad enough when you add in that keeping & paying Saffold Five million in 2016 just complicates the free agent signing

I believe if Saffold is cut he saves $3M under the cap. Now, if the idea to keep Saffold as an across the board depth guy, that is interesting. The value for him really in that scenario is offering quality depth at both T spots. With Brown, Wichmann and Reynolds under contract next year depth at G should not be such an issue. $3M for quality depth at both T spots is not outrageous by any means in my opinion.
Of course, there is that whole nagging health thingy.....

 

[Ballhawk]

I think that Tavon can learn to be deadly running crossing routes now that we have a QB that can actually throw one properly. This offense will just keep improving with Keenum.

 

[CGI_Ram]

This oline (and QB's) have done well keeping the sacks down.

They've also generated a good YPC in the running game.

But... It seems the YPC is inflated by big runs by Gurley and Tavon on sweeps. I don't have the stats to back this up; but it feels like the performance is mostly boom or bust in the running game. The occasional big run by Gurley and Austin, with fewer runs in the 4-6yd range. For that reason, our run game isn't getting us the consistency we need to sustain drives.

Again, no stats to back that up. Anyone else see this?

 

[BonifayRam]

I believe if Saffold is cut he saves $3M under the cap. Now, if the idea to keep Saffold as an across the board depth guy, that is interesting. The value for him really in that scenario is offering quality depth at both T spots. With Brown, Wichmann and Reynolds under contract next year depth at G should not be such an issue. $3M for quality depth at both T spots is not outrageous by any means in my opinion.
Of course, there is that whole nagging health thingy.....

I posted several weeks ago the best 2016 plan that includes Rodger Saffold would be @ LEFT OT. Fisher has went into the 2012-2013-2014 & 2015 seasons with RS being considered a back up OLT if needed. But now in 2016 season Fisher has Robinson-Battle & Williams. Even reserve right OT Andrew Donnal has played some OLT in 2015 pre season. So the OLT post would appear to have a sizable youth look to it not seen in a long time in Ramville.

Its my belief that after having each of your shoulders reconstructed in the same year and still undergoing early rehabbing event now that it would be super foolish of me to expect that RS will be able to recover the needed strength & power to have any ability to play interior OG posts even as a back up. RS could be an early PUP'er in fact. Backing up the OT's post may RS best possibility in 2016. But those shoulders must be intact & healed???????

Yes RS as we knew him back in late 2013 season would be a great 6th OL'er for this 2016 team....but in the real world RS is damaged goods. The first question the Rams Org. needs to answer here is ....Do the Rams have the luxury in 2016 of paying RS his 5 or 6 million to be a back up? When the Rams will be in serious hunt to reclaim some of the dozen starters who will enter free agency? Then add the fact that Garrett Reynolds who can play back up 3 posts of the same 4 posts that RS plays is also here in 2016 & GR is fully healthy and one tough veteran leader who can remain on the field of play.

Rams could easily have 5 young OT's in 2016 (Robinson, Havenstein, Donnal, Battle & Williams) not sure that OT is up there on the concerns list at the moment.

 

[Fatbot]

It seems the YPC is inflated by big runs by Gurley and Tavon on sweeps. I don't have the stats to back this up; but it feels like the performance is mostly boom or bust in the running game.

The footballoutsiders OL rankings back you up on this (in fact answering your question is kind of the only purpose for them since they give 0% credit to big runs): http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Rams are #2 in open field yards rank but when you take that away just #24 overall, bottom third in power rank and bottom third in stuffed rank.

 

[Fatbot]

I posted several weeks ago the best 2016 plan that includes Rodger Saffold would be ...

Nice analysis BUT it falls on Jeff Fisher's deaf ears. Am I the only one still bearing the scars of Scott Wells? If Fisher was willing to keep an injured and worthless Wells around so long, why do we think he would possibly jettison Saffold after jumping through all the hoops to resign him to a multi-year deal not even a year ago? Logic doesn't apply here because Fisher has a "code of coaching" that he religiously adheres to that includes that a veteran can never, ever lose his starting position due to injury. If Fisher coached the Yankees, Wally Pipp would still be playing and we'd never know the name Lou Gehrig. So I don't get the point of dreaming about Saffold going away, it's just not going to happen. As soon as he is healthy Fisher will insert him as a starting guard again according to his loyalty dogma. The salary is no problem, the Rams easily accommodated the $5-6 million for pieces like Kendricks and Fairley, Saffold's contract is manageable going forward especially with the cap going up.

 

[BonifayRam]

Nice analysis BUT it falls on Jeff Fisher's deaf ears. Am I the only one still bearing the scars of Scott Wells? If Fisher was willing to keep an injured and worthless Wells around so long, why do we think he would possibly jettison Saffold after jumping through all the hoops to resign him to a multi-year deal not even a year ago? Logic doesn't apply here because Fisher has a "code of coaching" that he religiously adheres to that includes that a veteran can never, ever lose his starting position due to injury. If Fisher coached the Yankees, Wally Pipp would still be playing and we'd never know the name Lou Gehrig. So I don't get the point of dreaming about Saffold going away, it's just not going to happen. As soon as he is healthy Fisher will insert him as a starting guard again according to his loyalty dogma. The salary is no problem, the Rams easily accommodated the $5-6 million for pieces like Kendricks and Fairley, Saffold's contract is manageable going forward especially with the cap going up.

Correct....The Rams offense paid a high price to keep Scott Wells as our starting center! Does make you over Fisher & his offensive moves. :rant: