A comparison of the two 17 sack defense who meet tomorrow

[WvuIN02]

Thanks!

 

[RamFan503]

I know, I know I keep meaning to pick an avatar.

By the way, the Giants in 2011 had the 27th ranked defense in the league and the 8th ranked offense. The Patriots that year were 31st in defense and 2nd in offense, so both of those teams had awful defenses statistically that season heading into the Super Bowl and got there off the strength of their offenses. I'm not saying defense isn't important, but its proven to be equally important to have both. As great as the Steelers defensive dynasties in the 70s were, you have the dominant offenses of the 49ers in the 80s and the Cowboys of the 90s who won off the power of a dominant OL and great skill position players. Those teams also had good defenses to complement their offenses. Could say the same for the Steelers of the 70s, who also had a great OL and great skill position players....which just reinforces what I was saying, you need a great TEAM generally to win the SB. There are some outliers like the 2000 Ravens, but those are more the exception to the rule.

Yeah - I think it is probably as much about perception as anything. Hard to say one view is right or wrong really. I just look back at playoffs and Superbowls and look at which side of the ball I felt won the game. To me it is not so much how they are ranked but what they truly do to win a game. It's also why I have always believed more in an offense that imposes its will than one that scores on big plays and flash. I loved watching the GSOT offense. But when it came to the playoffs, a good defensive effort and game plan could pretty much shut it down. It just seems to me that teams that can both keep the other offense off the field either by controlling the ball on offense or by shutting them down on defense generally win in the playoffs. And in general, when they talk about great offenses, they are talking in terms of yards and points, not long, time consuming drives.

I love a great aerial attack but I'll take 175 yards rushing and a shut down defense any day over 400 yards passing and a pretty good defense. It's much what we saw last Sunday, and I think that is a real recipe for success - especially come playoff time. Of course - now we have to actually do it consistently. Minor detail.

 

[RamFan503]

I gave you a temporary.

That's a pretty cool one too.

 

[iced]

Balanced teams win championships, not one sided. Unless of course you're the Baltimore Ravens with also the best ST teams - but they're the exception to the rule

 

[WvuIN02]

Yeah - I think it is probably as much about perception as anything. Hard to say one view is right or wrong really. I just look back at playoffs and Superbowls and look at which side of the ball I felt won the game. To me it is not so much how they are ranked but what they truly do to win a game. It's also why I have always believed more in an offense that imposes its will than one that scores on big plays and flash. I loved watching the GSOT offense. But when it came to the playoffs, a good defensive effort and game plan could pretty much shut it down. It just seems to me that teams that can both keep the other offense off the field either by controlling the ball on offense or by shutting them down on defense generally win in the playoffs. And in general, when they talk about great offenses, they are talking in terms of yards and points, not long, time consuming drives.

I love a great aerial attack but I'll take 175 yards rushing and a shut down defense any day over 400 yards passing and a pretty good defense. It's much what we saw last Sunday, and I think that is a real recipe for success - especially come playoff time. Of course - now we have to actually do it consistently. Minor detail.

I agree. I personally love great defense over offense, simply because I think its MUCH harder to react to an offense because the offense has the advantage of knowing what its going to do, and has to execute. If I had to choose between one or the other I would take the defense because I just think its more fun to watch a teams hopes get dashed when they cant move the ball.

That said, if the Seahawks had a better offense last year? Who knows, maybe that game turns out differently. An elite QB (screw you Wilson youre not one) might not have thrown that ball and audibled to Lynch, but hard to say how it would play out. It makes me sick either of those teams had to win.

But we will need to keep improving on offense if we are going to get to the promised land. Luckily we have a ton of young talent which is just getting better and better!

 

[RamFan503]

It makes me sick either of those teams had to win.

Man - no kidding. What a stinkfest. I couldn't even watch it. What I did see seemed to be pretty good timing. I saw both INTs by Brady and a few other plays and the game ending pick. Too bad they couldn't both lose.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I get what you are saying and can see where you are drawing your reference. In that case you are correct. But if you look at the past several SBs, the defenses were what determined the outcome of the games. The Giants D for example statistically didn't even belong in either of those games. They were huge underdogs to the offense of the patsies. But on those days, the defenses stepped up and won the games. So statistically, the article you quote would be right yet in reality, the Giants defense won the games.

Last season, the Shecocks should have won that game if not for a play made by the defense of the patsies. But the Seattle defense holding NE to 57 yards rushing and picking off Brady twice should have won that game if not for one extremely screwed up play at the goal line. People talked about the unstoppable Manning the year before and yet it was Seattle's defense that dominated that game.

Sure - you can look at the defensive and offensive rankings but you also have to look at why. Many times the higher flying offenses are scoring too quickly and are relying on big chunk plays. So when it comes to THE game, I would put my money in the defenses ability to stop that from happening. I saw it happening with our own team and have seen it in some of the biggest upsets in Superbowl history. When you look at offense vs offense and defense vs defense, and then how they play in the games, the team with the better defense wins.

I get that you disagree and that's fine. But much like stereotypes, the mantras like "defense wins championships" are there for a reason - because they generally hold true - not that they are infallible.

I can't agree with the giants d winning the game for them. While they kept the cheats in check for most of the game while their offense did diddly, they eventually gave up what everyone thought would be the game winning td when brady hit moss. That's when Eli and the offense had to pull out the game for the giants.

Team sport. Everybody contributes.

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[Picked4td]

I can't agree with the giants d winning the game for them. While they kept the cheats in check for most of the game while their offense did diddly, they eventually gave up what everyone thought would be the game winning td when brady hit moss. That's when Eli and the offense had to pull out the game for the giants.

Team sport. Everybody contributes.

.

So their defense kept arguably the most prolific offense ever in check for most of the game and bought their offense time to get their shit together to win it. Sounds like the great D won that game if you ask me.

 

[kurtfaulk]

So their defense kept arguably the most prolific offense ever in check for most of the game and bought their offense time to get their crap together to win it. Sounds like the great D won that game if you ask me.

Most prolific my arse. Running up the score doesn't make you that, just makes you classless. GSOT would have put up 700 points if they wanted.

And you described the very definition of team sport.

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[blue4]

You need to be a good team who can stop the other team from scoring and be capable of scoring yourself. I have to agree that defense being more important is a myth. Sometimes your defense is better sometimes it's the other way.


And the GSOT wasn't stopped but once in the playoffs. By TB, who lost the game. Even when we lost we had great offensive games. The 2001 GSOT was stopped by intentional holding and the worst officiating that I've ever seen in any pro sport. Any team's defense looks good when the rules don't appy.

 

[RamWoodie]

Good defense does not trump good offense. Its a myth thats been debunked many times.

They go hand in hand offense puts up points and defense prevents points (for the most part). No game is won by only offense...or there would only be offense on the field.

Just remember the GSOT days when the Rams put up points...and recall that a good defense can stop that. Recall the Tampa Bay defense that gave the Rams fits!

 

[blue4]

They go hand in hand offense puts up points and defense prevents points (for the most part). No game is won by only offense...or there would only be offense on the field.

Just remember the GSOT days when the Rams put up points...and recall that a good defense can stop that. Recall the Tampa Bay defense that gave the Rams fits!

True, but everyone leaves out the other good defenses that we routinely bitched. I don't know why everyone points to the TB game as the norm for defense, when it really was the exception. Very very rarely did we not score enough points to expect a victory.

Your main point is spot on though. Balance wins championships, not just defense.

 

[Mackeyser]

I don't even care about all this...

I just want Donald and Brockers to collapse that pocket and for Quinn, Long, Donald and Brockers to hit Aaron Rodgers so hard, so often that after the game, all AR can do is channel Danny Glover from Lethal Weapon and mumble, "I'm too old for this $#!T..."

I want passes to sail like it's a danged football regatta.... and I want no injuries, but I want AR to still need ice baths on Friday...

Cuz that's how we do...Mob Squad style.

Time to come together, Rams Brothers!

 

[WvuIN02]

They go hand in hand offense puts up points and defense prevents points (for the most part). No game is won by only offense...or there would only be offense on the field.

Just remember the GSOT days when the Rams put up points...and recall that a good defense can stop that. Recall the Tampa Bay defense that gave the Rams fits!

That was the point of my post. The whole "defense wins championships" mantra is false, good teams win championships and offense is just as important.