A comparison of the two 17 sack defense who meet tomorrow

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Stel

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GB opponents have attempted 131 passes and been sacked 17 times.
STL opponents have attempted 144 passes and been sacked 17 times.

GB's opponent OLs are ranked 1st, 2nd, 3rd(tie), and 13th(tie) for most sacks allowed.

STL's opponent OLs are ranked 2nd, 6th(tie), 27th(tie) and 27th(tie) for most sacks allowed.

GB has 17 sacks out of a total of 60 their opponents have allowed, or 28.3%. GB gets 4.25 sacks per game against opponents who allow 3.75 sacks per game.

STL has 17 sacks out of a total of 40 their opponents have allowed, or 42.5%. STL gets 4.25 sacks per game against opponets who allow 2.5 sacks per game.

Only common opponent is Seattle. GB sacked Wilson 2 times and he attempted 30 passes. STL sacked Wilson 6 times and he attempted 41 passes.

One final note - both STL and GB OLs have allowed 6 sacks so far this season, tied for 7th best.

I draw no conclusions, but it is obvious that GB has played against OLs that have more trouble protecting their QB.
 

DaveFan'51

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GB opponents have attempted 131 passes and been sacked 17 times.
STL opponents have attempted 144 passes and been sacked 17 times.

GB's opponent OLs are ranked 1st, 2nd, 3rd(tie), and 13th(tie) for most sacks allowed.

STL's opponent OLs are ranked 2nd, 6th(tie), 27th(tie) and 27th(tie) for most sacks allowed.

GB has 17 sacks out of a total of 60 their opponents have allowed, or 28.3%. GB gets 4.25 sacks per game against opponents who allow 3.75 sacks per game.

STL has 17 sacks out of a total of 40 their opponents have allowed, or 42.5%. STL gets 4.25 sacks per game against opponets who allow 2.5 sacks per game.

Only common opponent is Seattle. GB sacked Wilson 2 times and he attempted 30 passes. STL sacked Wilson 6 times and he attempted 41 passes.

One final note - both STL and GB OLs have allowed 6 sacks so far this season, tied for 7th best.

I draw no conclusions, but it is obvious that GB has played against OLs that have more trouble protecting their QB.
Thanks for the post! I enjoyed the analysis!(y) The possibilities are endless!:snicker::shades:
 

RamFan503

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I draw no conclusions, but it is obvious that GB has played against OLs that have more trouble protecting their QB.
I do. Our Defense is better than anything they have faced to date. Our defense is better than theirs. Their offense is better than ours. It's time to see why a great defense trumps a great offense. It's also time for our offense to demonstrate that they learned something last week. We played arguably as good of a defense last week and the AZ offense was putting up 10 more points per game than GB. Absolutely no reason the result this week should be any different. It's the year of the ram.
 

RamWoodie

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This is good stuff! I think it's great that you drew no conclusion, because each game is different because of the "human element". Players definitely don't play at the same level each game.
 

DaveFan'51

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I do. Our Defense is better than anything they have faced to date. Our defense is better than theirs. Their offense is better than ours. It's time to see why a great defense trumps a great offense. It's also time for our offense to demonstrate that they learned something last week. We played arguably as good of a defense last week and the AZ offense was putting up 10 more points per game than GB. Absolutely no reason the result this week should be any different. It's the year of the ram.
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WvuIN02

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Good defense does not trump good offense. Its a myth thats been debunked many times.
 

RamFan503

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Good defense does not trump good offense. Its a myth thats been debunked many times.
You mean like by the patsies? Not sue how you think it has been debunked. Our insane offense of the GSOT barely beat a very good defense in Tampa and also barely held off the Titans in the SB. And you don't think defense (and cheating of course) won the day in 2001 when our offense was supposedly unstoppable? How about when the G-men beat the patsies in the two Superbowls? The patsies offense was clicking on all cylinders coming into those games. Denver's record breaking offense vs Seattle? Tell Peyton that the defense of Seattle didn't win that SB. Last week, the Gurley runs were nice and salted the game away but it was the defense holding an offense that was scoring 40 points per game to mostly field goals that really won the game. And when it comes to the playoffs and Superbowls, the great defense trumps a great offense is anything but debunked. What was the last actual high flying offense to win a Superbowl? The Aints? And before that?
 

WvuIN02

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There was an article on SI I think, that showed the averaged out rankings of every SB winners offense and defense. The tally came out to like 7th defense vs 8th offense, for every SB winner....so its a wash....ie, good TEAMS win SBs not the "defense wins championships" stuff.

Its just some myth perpetuated in the media and in football circles that has no merit or statistical validity
 

GabesHorn

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You mean like by the patsies? Not sue how you think it has been debunked. Our insane offense of the GSOT barely beat a very good defense in Tampa and also barely held off the Titans in the SB. And you don't think defense (and cheating of course) won the day in 2001 when our offense was supposedly unstoppable? How about when the G-men beat the patsies in the two Superbowls? The patsies offense was clicking on all cylinders coming into those games. Denver's record breaking offense vs Seattle? Tell Peyton that the defense of Seattle didn't win that SB. Last week, the Gurley runs were nice and salted the game away but it was the defense holding an offense that was scoring 40 points per game to mostly field goals that really won the game. And when it comes to the playoffs and Superbowls, the great defense trumps a great offense is anything but debunked. What was the last actual high flying offense to win a Superbowl? The Aints? And before that?

That is one of the best posts I've read since December. Great memory and pulled a lot of stuff together that ties in and you changed my opinion with one post when I think more about the details of each circumstance you mentioned. Plus the packers have not had sacks from their DL like we have. The sacks the pack got to tie us with 17 came from their lb's. Our OL will need to do what they could not stop from the skins OLB's .Packers are better I'm afraid than the skins . We sacked a much healthier seattle 6 times while the beat up seattle gave up 2 sacks to the pack. NO WAY will the packers run the 3 tight end sets that the skins ran that threw us off early and Williams was slow to adjust. Those that allowed them to gouge us with runs. This will be a Chess game of the HIGHEST MAGNITUDE. Delayed LB blitzes will test our newbies. Hope they are coached up.

Will we be able to get the penalties most teams have not gotten as the packs WR's block before the pass is thrown on a play they run out of so many sets and do the same thing? WE run a tripps series that we scored with last week (Bailey). The packers screen out of that and I'm wondering how we are gonna stop it. Its a short throw that gets lots of yards with their wr's. I think we have a harder time with #44 Starks then we do with Lacy.

I see a whole different game with this information. Yet I still think we need our offense to score and score for us to win.(TOP) I'm ALL IN. I really want a win SO BAD. The variable of how we will play without AO is too hard to work into the math problem. I think Ayers' size could help in bringing down Lacy easier. Yet they still have #44 Starks who is his running partner and I think more dangerous in screen game and faster.Gonna miss that sideline to sideline ability. Williams will have Barron playing a ton too. Just don't see how we fill those shoes. Get Well AO Soon. JL Must play at His Highest Level.

Georgia lost RB Chubb to a Knee injury in first series of Tennessee. Watching the game we saw that Todd Gurley tweeted to Chubb that he is with him and keep his head up. Gurley is gonna run Angry again tomorrow for his Bulldogs. Weird watching Schotty's new team run the ball with Gurley's old roommates in Marshall and Michal.

GO RAMS!!! NO INJURIES!!!
 

Mojo Ram

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Good defense does not trump good offense. Its a myth thats been debunked many times.
NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, WBA. fencing(Lol). Defense wins championships. That's never changed. I'll go into it later. Don't have time this afternoon.
 

jap

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TGIII says, "I'm a proud member of the Horns' D. When I'm lugging the rock, Aaron can't touch the damn ball! We will keep him off the field for a series of long periods, terminating in scores by me & my offensive mates. Horns D includes offensive & special teams guys too!!!"
 

GabesHorn

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Keep on saying it. Statistics show its not true.

Whoever wins this AWESOME game Tomorrow; it won't be by Defense alone. So don't let it bother you brother. The RAMS offense got Birthed last week and we learned how to Gel and Finish a game also. Our biggest problem to work out on the Fly is how we replace Alec Ogletree's speed and tackles on "D". It CAN BE DONE as we purposely paid for A. Ayers in Free Agency for a good reason and it so happens he played AO's role in this same "D" for Williams in Tennessee. It will be mixed with a heavy dose of Barron using his speed and his blitz ability (See Big Ben going Down).

This RAMS offense will be scoring Touch Downs tomorrow like we did last week. The packers are not as great as their fan base would make you think playing at Lambeau. This youngest team in the league is growing up in so many ways with so many moving parts as we came together in "99" so is this young team with new Offensive Coordinator and I think even Bigger is Nick Foles and His Leadership and execution that is getting better game by game. Tavon Austin with a good QB and some extra coaches added to team to help QB's and WR's. We have yet to see Brian Quick but Stedman Bailey is showing his talented hands. Kendricks is blocking when not dropping passes and Harkey has been noticed and when Mason is finally 100% with his hammy we will see him go the Distance. Cunningham is adding his toughness and blocking. If Cookie decides to join the team and play up to his abilities we could add a special target. Don't let me forget Greg Z. and his skills. Just hope we only need him to get his long leg tired kicking off.Our OL will ALL take a step forward tomorrow.:yess: NO INJURIES!!!
 

RamFan503

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There was an article on SI I think, that showed the averaged out rankings of every SB winners offense and defense. The tally came out to like 7th defense vs 8th offense, for every SB winner....so its a wash....ie, good TEAMS win SBs not the "defense wins championships" stuff.

Its just some myth perpetuated in the media and in football circles that has no merit or statistical validity
Sorry - not buying it. Go back through and look at it. Provide a link to what you are saying and I can see what they are saying. But when you look at the offensive juggernauts that have been in the Superbowl dating back over the past 20 years or so, rarely do they end up winning it all and even when they do, they are often held in check ala 1999. When you see the high scoring SBs in there, the high score has rarely been by a team considered a great offense.
 

WvuIN02

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Does Defense Really Win Championships?
By Tobias J. Moskowitz and L. Jon Wertheim

It’s at this point in the NFL postseason when every NFL analyst, pundit, and blogger will inevitably proclaim “defense wins championships.” With the NFL conference championships upon us this weekend, this phrase will be uttered more times than “yo” in a typical Jersey Shore episode. And why not?

Last weekend we saw two of the NFL’s top offenses — Green Bay and New Orleans — lose to better defenses. Moreover, as Chris Berman himself pointed out on ESPN’s Sunday NFL Countdown, 38 (out of 45) Super Bowls have been won by a top 10 defense and 22 have been won by a top three defense. The sentiment has hardened from cliché into an article of sports law. But is it actually true? Does defense really win championships?

In a word: no.

We found that when it comes to winning a title, or winning in sports in general for that matter, offense and defense carry nearly identical weight. For example, here’s what Berman didn’t tell you: the number of Super Bowl champs with a top 10 offense? Thirty-eight. And a top 3 offense? Twenty. In other words, offense wins championships, too.

We further found that among the 45 NFL Super Bowls, the better defensive team — measured by points allowed that season— has won 29 times. The better offensive team won 25 times. (Note that adds up to 53, which means that some teams are the better offensive and defensive team in the Super Bowl. Nineteen Super Bowls have featured a team superior on both sides of the ball. Those teams have won 14 of those games.) It’s a slight edge for defense, but it’s a pretty close call and not different from random chance. The favorite statistic of the “defense wins championships” proponents is that the top-ranked defense during the regular season has won 15 Super Bowls, whereas the top-ranked offense has won only 8. Although this would seem to confer an advantage to defense, these two numbers are not statistically different. And, remember, since the top-three defenses have won no more than the top-three offensive teams, it also means that offensive teams ranked 2 and 3 have won more Super Bowls than the second- and third-best defensive teams, though again, these differences are not statistically significant.

But we’re only talking about 45 games, so let’s broaden the sample size. There have been 427 NFL playoff games over the last 45 seasons. The better defensive teams have won 58 percent of them. The better offensive teams have won 62 percent of the time. (Again, the winning team is sometimes better both offensively and defensively, which explains why the total exceeds 100 percent.) That’s a slight edge to the offense, but again, pretty even.

In almost 10,000 regular season games, the better defensive team has won 66.5 percent of the time compared with 67.4 percent of the time for the better offensive team. That’s a slight nod to the offense but a negligible difference.

But maybe the phrase “defense wins championships” is supposed to mean is that defense is somehow more necessary than offense. Maybe a team can prevail with a middling offense, but not with a middling defense. As it turns out, that doesn’t hold up, either. Three times the Super Bowl champion ranked in the bottom half of the league in defense; only twice did it rank in the bottom half in offense. The lowest-ranked defensive team to win a Super Bowl was the 2006 Indianapolis Colts, rated nineteenth that year. (They offset that by ranking third in offense.) The lowest-ranked offensive team to win the Lombardi Trophy? The 2000 Baltimore Ravens, ranked nineteenth in offense but first in defense.

What about when a great offense faces a great defense? Twenty-seven Super Bowls have pitted a top 5 offense against a top 5 defense. The best offensive team won 13, and the best defensive team won 14. Another stalemate.




Again, its wrong. Its statistically EVEN. Its just a bunch of crap regurgitated by the media and people have bought into it.
 

RamFan503

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Again, its wrong. Its statistically EVEN. Its just a bunch of crap regurgitated by the media and people have bought into it.
I get what you are saying and can see where you are drawing your reference. In that case you are correct. But if you look at the past several SBs, the defenses were what determined the outcome of the games. The Giants D for example statistically didn't even belong in either of those games. They were huge underdogs to the offense of the patsies. But on those days, the defenses stepped up and won the games. So statistically, the article you quote would be right yet in reality, the Giants defense won the games.

Last season, the Shecocks should have won that game if not for a play made by the defense of the patsies. But the Seattle defense holding NE to 57 yards rushing and picking off Brady twice should have won that game if not for one extremely screwed up play at the goal line. People talked about the unstoppable Manning the year before and yet it was Seattle's defense that dominated that game.

Sure - you can look at the defensive and offensive rankings but you also have to look at why. Many times the higher flying offenses are scoring too quickly and are relying on big chunk plays. So when it comes to THE game, I would put my money in the defenses ability to stop that from happening. I saw it happening with our own team and have seen it in some of the biggest upsets in Superbowl history. When you look at offense vs offense and defense vs defense, and then how they play in the games, the team with the better defense wins.

I get that you disagree and that's fine. But much like stereotypes, the mantras like "defense wins championships" are there for a reason - because they generally hold true - not that they are infallible.
 

RamFan503

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And another thing @WvuIN02 you've been here since '13 - how 'bout taking off your jacket, coming up with an avatar, and staying a while. :cool:
 

WvuIN02

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I know, I know I keep meaning to pick an avatar. :(

By the way, the Giants in 2011 had the 27th ranked defense in the league and the 8th ranked offense. The Patriots that year were 31st in defense and 2nd in offense, so both of those teams had awful defenses statistically that season heading into the Super Bowl and got there off the strength of their offenses. I'm not saying defense isn't important, but its proven to be equally important to have both. As great as the Steelers defensive dynasties in the 70s were, you have the dominant offenses of the 49ers in the 80s and the Cowboys of the 90s who won off the power of a dominant OL and great skill position players. Those teams also had good defenses to complement their offenses. Could say the same for the Steelers of the 70s, who also had a great OL and great skill position players....which just reinforces what I was saying, you need a great TEAM generally to win the SB. There are some outliers like the 2000 Ravens, but those are more the exception to the rule.
 

CGI_Ram

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I know, I know I keep meaning to pick an avatar. :(

By the way, the Giants in 2011 had the 27th ranked defense in the league and the 8th ranked offense. The Patriots that year were 31st in defense and 2nd in offense, so both of those teams had awful defenses statistically that season heading into the Super Bowl and got there off the strength of their offenses. I'm not saying defense isn't important, but its proven to be equally important to have both. As great as the Steelers defensive dynasties in the 70s were, you have the dominant offenses of the 49ers in the 80s and the Cowboys of the 90s who won off the power of a dominant OL and great skill position players. Those teams also had good defenses to complement their offenses. Could say the same for the Steelers of the 70s, who also had a great OL and great skill position players....which just reinforces what I was saying, you need a great TEAM generally to win the SB. There are some outliers like the 2000 Ravens, but those are more the exception to the rule.

I gave you a temporary.

:sneaky: