6ft High and Rising? A Tale of Two QBs

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-X-

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And this is what makes this entire conversation pointless and ridiculous.
I'll remind you the next time you want to talk about something that the whole premise is ridiculous and pointless.
Because apparently that's the level of respect we show each other around here now when we disagree with something.
 

jrry32

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That's not what I asked you, and you know this.
It was simple. Would you want his development to go that way? Yes or no?

I answered your question. No. That would make him a bust. But he was a #1 overall pick. It's not an apples to apples comparison. Which is the same issue I addressed with the OP's comparison.

And if another QB in year 3 had basically the same numbers, who do you think would have the edge?

The QB in Year 3 would have the edge moving forward.

Meh. Don't even answer it. You haven't yet, and you don't plan to.
It doesn't matter anyway. Keenum will eventually be replaced, so it's all moot.
Disagree that he can't get better. He's already gotten better every week, and he's shown that he can have great games too.
But again ... all moot. And orders of magnitude better than Austin Davis too. I would hope you could at least recognize that.

Yea, I don't see him getting better in a meaningful way. He is what he is. Showing that you can have a great game isn't what separates starting QBs from backups. Doing it with consistency is what separates the two. Keenum has never shown the ability to do it with any sort of consistency.

He's 28 years old. This is his 5th year in the NFL. He's had opportunities to start. He's never been able to hold onto the starting job because he's never played well enough to do it. Fair or not, as a UDFA, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.

These are the same arguments I addressed back in the day with Austin Davis. Sometimes, guys are just what they are. They don't get meaningfully better with experience.
 

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I answered your question. No. That would make him a bust. But he was a #1 overall pick. It's not an apples to apples comparison. Which is the same issue I addressed with the OP's comparison.



The QB in Year 3 would have the edge moving forward.



Yea, I don't see him getting better in a meaningful way. He is what he is. Showing that you can have a great game isn't what separates starting QBs from backups. Doing it with consistency is what separates the two. Keenum has never shown the ability to do it with any sort of consistency.

He's 28 years old. This is his 5th year in the NFL. He's had opportunities to start. He's never been able to hold onto the starting job because he's never played well enough to do it. Fair or not, as a UDFA, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.

These are the same arguments I addressed back in the day with Austin Davis. Sometimes, guys are just what they are. They don't get meaningfully better with experience.
Fair enough. I'm just gonna say I disagree and think that Keenum can get better. There are other parallels I can draw, but that doesn't seem to be well met around here. And I can demonstrate with very specific timelines why Keenum didn't get a fair shake in Houston, but that doesn't matter either. At this point we're just trying to make arguments that reinforce how we view Keenum as a quarterback, but I'm no longer interested in defending the guy against people who want to close the book on him. It's all good though, Jrry. "I ain't even mad doe."

On a side note, I've spent a couple of hours today going through all the preseason games because I was gonna make a video of all of Goff's throws. And with the intention of showing how good they were, because I really am looking forward to the day he starts. BUT. I honestly forgot how ugly it was, so I'm not gonna do that now. I can really see (and understand) why the coaching staff is taking the approach they're taking with him. He was SO not ready to step in right away. As average as Keenum is, he really and truly did give us the best chance to not lose. Notice I didn't say win. Goff would have cost us games if he started. And not just the first one either. You can see the arm talent there, but you can also see the lack of FBI. Being on the sideilnes of these games, and then going through film review is going to help him establish a comfort zone when he finally gets out there. He's not getting plays from the sidelines anymore, and there's not a lot of man coverage. He's gonna have to run with the two pass plays and two run plays he brings to the LOS and then make the determination of what to call based on what he sees. An under front cover 3 or an over front cover 2 will have two different plays, and a check, and then he'll have to understand the WR sight-adjustments post-snap. No way he had that stuff down during preseason. Absolutely no conceivable way. But he will. I've been reading a lot about him, and he's no dummy. Shouldn't be long now.
 

jrry32

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Fair enough. I'm just gonna say I disagree and think that Keenum can get better. There are other parallels I can draw, but that doesn't seem to be well met around here. And I can demonstrate with very specific timelines why Keenum didn't get a fair shake in Houston, but that doesn't matter either. At this point we're just trying to make arguments that reinforce how we view Keenum as a quarterback, but I'm no longer interested in defending the guy against people who want to close the book on him. It's all good though, Jrry. "I ain't even mad doe."

On a side note, I've spent a couple of hours today going through all the preseason games because I was gonna make a video of all of Goff's throws. And with the intention of showing how good they were, because I really am looking forward to the day he starts. BUT. I honestly forgot how ugly it was, so I'm not gonna do that now. I can really see (and understand) why the coaching staff is taking the approach they're taking with him. He was SO not ready to step in right away. As average as Keenum is, he really and truly did give us the best chance to not lose. Notice I didn't say win. Goff would have cost us games if he started. And not just the first one either. You can see the arm talent there, but you can also see the lack of FBI. Being on the sideilnes of these games, and then going through film review is going to help him establish a comfort zone when he finally gets out there. He's not getting plays from the sidelines anymore, and there's not a lot of man coverage. He's gonna have to run with the two pass plays and two run plays he brings to the LOS and then make the determination of what to call based on what he sees. An under front cover 3 or an over front cover 2 will have two different plays, and a check, and then he'll have to understand the WR sight-adjustments post-snap. No way he had that stuff down during preseason. Absolutely no conceivable way. But he will. I've been reading a lot about him, and he's no dummy. Shouldn't be long now.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
 

jrry32

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Like I've said many times over, there were plenty of other rookie QBs who looked lost in the preseason but ended up having successful years.
 

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Like I've said many times over, there were plenty of other rookie QBs who looked lost in the preseason but ended up having successful years.
And many who didn't.
I don't care if he wins or not. I'm talking about his ability to process. It just wasn't there yet.

Thought we agreed to disagree.
Are you now disagreeing to agreeing to disagree?
 

jrry32

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And many who didn't.
I don't care if he wins or not. I'm talking about his ability to process. It just wasn't there yet.

Thought we agreed to disagree.
Are you now disagreeing to agreeing to disagree?

Nope. Explaining my rationale as to why I am agreeing to disagree.
 

Memento

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Can't we all agree to disagree to agree to disagree?
 

Bruce2980

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Fair enough. I'm just gonna say I disagree and think that Keenum can get better. There are other parallels I can draw, but that doesn't seem to be well met around here. And I can demonstrate with very specific timelines why Keenum didn't get a fair shake in Houston, but that doesn't matter either. At this point we're just trying to make arguments that reinforce how we view Keenum as a quarterback, but I'm no longer interested in defending the guy against people who want to close the book on him. It's all good though, Jrry. "I ain't even mad doe."

On a side note, I've spent a couple of hours today going through all the preseason games because I was gonna make a video of all of Goff's throws. And with the intention of showing how good they were, because I really am looking forward to the day he starts. BUT. I honestly forgot how ugly it was, so I'm not gonna do that now. I can really see (and understand) why the coaching staff is taking the approach they're taking with him. He was SO not ready to step in right away. As average as Keenum is, he really and truly did give us the best chance to not lose. Notice I didn't say win. Goff would have cost us games if he started. And not just the first one either. You can see the arm talent there, but you can also see the lack of FBI. Being on the sideilnes of these games, and then going through film review is going to help him establish a comfort zone when he finally gets out there. He's not getting plays from the sidelines anymore, and there's not a lot of man coverage. He's gonna have to run with the two pass plays and two run plays he brings to the LOS and then make the determination of what to call based on what he sees. An under front cover 3 or an over front cover 2 will have two different plays, and a check, and then he'll have to understand the WR sight-adjustments post-snap. No way he had that stuff down during preseason. Absolutely no conceivable way. But he will. I've been reading a lot about him, and he's no dummy. Shouldn't be long now.
I for one would have been very interested in reading what you were going to write about Keenum's timelines and fair shakes etc. There is a lot to be learned form reading this discussion, persuasion attempts aside. Very interesting volley betwixt the two of you, thanks.