56/1 I am Now in Goff's Camp.

[Ballhawk]

I'm worried because Wentz didn't play in the SEC... but Goff didn't either!
And Goff has those tiny hands....

 

[den-the-coach]

I'm worried because Wentz didn't play in the SEC... but Goff didn't either!
And Goff has those tiny hands....

Goff's hands are bigger than Tony Romo's so as long as he's not taking snaps on FG's Rams should be fine.

 

[dieterbrock]

. Basically, you have to be VERY SPECIAL to be drafted in the first round as a FCS QB. There have only been two guys drafted in the first round at QB from FCS programs since 1990...Steve McNair and Joe Flacco. I'd say that sort of history bodes well for Wentz.

If we solely look at competition, then Flacco, McNair and a goodly number of other QBs would never get the slightest look because they didn't go to a major conference.

The thing here that bothers me is that in the case of Flacco and McNair, the teams were not very good before they came on the scene and both programs plummeted after each guy left. Meaning? The player was so good he elevated the entire program. With Wentz? He's a next in line QB that was bound to lead the team to championships (kind of like UConn women basketball right now) and his production was not that different than his predecessor. And clearly, the team will roll on without Carson like they did this year without him when they rolled thru the reg season and playoffs.
So for me, its hard to put him in the category of McNair who just had off the charts numbers or Flacco who was drafted 18th not first.
As for the 1-AA comparison, I wouldn't call that a "deal breaker" I'd be pumped if we call his name next Thursday night. I look at it as a "Tie Breaker" between him and Goff. (Who I would prefer if EVER so slightly)
All in all, I love the intangibles of Wentz that don't show up in stats. Love how the Senior bowl wasn't a bright lights/big stage let down nor was the combine. The bigger the stage, the more confident the kid looks. I love that.

 

[Merlin]

Goff's hands are bigger than Tony Romo's so as long as he's not taking snaps on FG's Rams should be fine.

Reportedly the Rams were blown away by a Goff workout in the rain. I doubt they care about his hand size.

Oh and also, the body/size thing might not be too big a deal to them if they are seeking a guy who can dish it quick. Has worked well enough for the Patriots after all.

Wentz is a Steelers type dude, though. Seems more the guy Fish would prefer but hey, wtf do I know since I can never predict these guys...

 

[RaminExile]

Reportedly the Rams were blown away by a Goff workout in the rain. I doubt they care about his hand size.

Oh and also, the body/size thing might not be too big a deal to them if they are seeking a guy who can dish it quick. Has worked well enough for the Patriots after all.

Wentz is a Steelers type dude, though. Seems more the guy Fish would prefer but hey, wtf do I know since I can never predict these guys...

The rumours are Fish likes one guy Snead the other. If I had to guess I'd guess you are in the right of it - Wentz is a real Fisher style athlete.

 

[Boston Ram]

Goff's hands are bigger than Tony Romo's so as long as he's not taking snaps on FG's Rams should be fine.

Hands size is less relevant in LA anyway. 8 games in LA, Arizona, SF and Seattle. Bigger hands really are only important in playoff games in the cold. Most Rams games are going to be played in warm weather so the hands size is not as important in this case. Rams just need to make sure they have home field throughout the playoffs!

 

[OC_Ram]

I really like Goff's stats, feet, accuracy but either one will do. Its going to be an exciting year routing for the rook.

 

[den-the-coach]

Reportedly the Rams were blown away by a Goff workout in the rain. I doubt they care about his hand size.

Wentz is a Steelers type dude, though. Seems more the guy Fish would prefer but hey, wtf do I know since I can never predict these guys...

I'm still trying to find that workout in the rain, I know Mike Silver reported that, but Mike Silver is also a Cal-Berkeley Alum.

I've always felt strongly that Wentz represented more the type of QB that Fisher would want, however, some things are different now and Goff's ability to start from day one, pocket awareness and the ability to get rid of the ball quick, might trump the bigger QB.

Accuracy
is one of the most important traits in today's game and there is no debating that Goff is off the charts in that category, plus I have a feeling passing game coordinator Mike Groh (a former collegiate QB) has a seat at the table.

 

[Psycho_X]

I read through this entire thread just now and literally changed my mind about who I want to draft at least a dozen times in that span alone. This draft will either be the draft to end our suffering madness or be the one that drives some of us over the edge into insanity if the one we finally pick ends up sucking and the other doesn't. Seriously, after the last 15 years I'm not sure I can handle this pick being a bust. I mean if both guys end up being busts I'll feel better but if we pick the Ryan Leaf and Cleveland or god forbid the Whiners pick the Peyton Manning I will slit my wrists.

 

[PowayRamFan]

I was too.
After the trade up, I started watching games. The more I watched Goff, the more I freaked out how good he was under pressure. Under massive amounts of intense pressure.

I prefer the guys like Manning, Brady, Brees, Warner. The guys that can stand tall and throw the ball to keep things moving.

A running QB is less dangerous, late in the game when the qb's arm is the most important part of the game.
I just think that Goff has the moxie to do just that.

Goff is the guy imo.

It's a back breaker for a defense when they almost get there a bunch of times, only to have that slippery QB move around a bit and make the play.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

2014 DROY Aaron Donald
2015 OROY Todd Gurley
2016 OROY Jared Goff
2016 Super Bowl MVP Jared Goff

2014 DROY Aaron Donald
2015 OROY Todd Gurley
2016 OROY Jared Goff
2016 Super Bowl MVP Tavon Austin

Let's come full circle.

 

[den-the-coach]

 

[WvuIN02]

Wentz was the best guy all week at the Senior Bowl. The game doesn't count for much. A lot of the NFL guys leave after the final practice.

And one thing people seem to constantly ignore is that Wentz wasn't playing FCS talent on Oregon. Wentz was playing FCS talent on a FCS team. He had FCS linemen, he had FCS receivers, and he had FCS backs. He didn't get bigger windows or worse coverage because of the level of competition. Because his WRs weren't good. There's a whole hell of a lot of film of Wentz throwing into tight windows and making NFL throws/reads. Those are what matter more than anything.

Go back and watch Joe Flacco at Delaware. You probably wouldn't be blown away by him either. It seems like you have unrealistic expectations for what you expect Wentz to be. It's like you expect Wentz to be putting up unheard of numbers to compensate for the lower level of competition. But he's in a pro style run first system with FCS caliber players around him.(not to knock his supporting cast, besides the WRs, they were quite good) It's simply not realistic. Stop treating Wentz like LeBron James playing against high school kids. If he were a HB or a WR, there would be more merit to that. But he's a QB. If he's facing just as tight of windows as guys like Goff and Lynch (and he did) and making just as tough of reads (and he did) then there's no true advantage.

Is it worth considering that he played at the FCS? Yes. But only to the point that you actively look for the sort of plays that translate to the NFL. And there are plenty of those in his film.

It's also worth mentioning that it's ridiculously hard to get picked in the first round as a FCS QB. Teams tend to be skeptical of FCS players and it's hard to find guys with the caliber of talent who standout enough in the FCS to go that highly. Basically, you have to be VERY SPECIAL to be drafted in the first round as a FCS QB. There have only been two guys drafted in the first round at QB from FCS programs since 1990...Steve McNair and Joe Flacco. I'd say that sort of history bodes well for Wentz.

Neither Flacco or McNair have been more than above average at their best, average to slightly below I'd say for the majority.

Which was my point. You can win SBs with a QB on that level for sure, we all know the names that have. And both of those guys rode good running games and insanely good defenses. But I think Goff will be great and Wentz will at best be what McNair and Flacco were/are. Which isn't awful, just not something I would think the 1st overall pick should be. And while Wentz might be playing with other FCS guys, his athletic ability then should jump off the screen (since everyone touts it) and it just doesnt.

Time will tell and we will have to revisit this after this year.

 

[Merlin]

I'm still trying to find that workout in the rain, I know Mike Silver reported that, but Mike Silver is also a Cal-Berkeley Alum.

I've always felt strongly that Wentz represented more the type of QB that Fisher would want, however, some things are different now and Goff's ability to start from day one, pocket awareness and the ability to get rid of the ball quick, might trump the bigger QB.

Accuracy
is one of the most important traits in today's game and there is no debating that Goff is off the charts in that category, plus I have a feeling passing game coordinator Mike Groh (a former collegiate QB) has a seat at the table.

Yes, accuracy favors Goff and it's a slam dunk in his favor. Which hypothetically would maximize Tavon's inclusion in more of the offense too btw. That is why I prefer Goff, personally, because accuracy and quick decision making trump all other things in the NFL.

When it comes to readiness to play, however, where Goff is often talked about as the top guy, I am not certain that is true. He did a lot pre-snap, sure. But Wentz has a lot of advantages with scheme and how they attacked defenses and I suspect the Rams see him as a guy who will simply need to learn their terminology and study that bigger playbook. IMO if they take Wentz he will start day one. Goff, I'm not so sure, suspect he's a mid-way through year one guy in terms of knowing the offense well enough.

 

[dolphinlover123]

I'm still trying to find that workout in the rain, I know Mike Silver reported that, but Mike Silver is also a Cal-Berkeley Alum.

It was a private workout that the rams held at Cal. I think this is one of the workouts that Fisher is referring to when he said something like 'we got in first and worked them out in Feb.' I think he visited Fargo and then flew straight to Berkeley.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Oh so you're saying that J.J. Worton can just fuck right off eh?

 

[yrba1]

Goff played 3 years with no run game, and no run threat. Number of attempts is relevant. Percentages can be misleading.

(See Hekker's stats as a QB.)

Goff will salivate on those one-on-one matchups since Gurley will keep defenses honest.

 

[jrry32]

Neither Flacco or McNair have been more than above average at their best, average to slightly below I'd say for the majority.

Which was my point. You can win SBs with a QB on that level for sure, we all know the names that have. And both of those guys rode good running games and insanely good defenses. But I think Goff will be great and Wentz will at best be what McNair and Flacco were/are. Which isn't awful, just not something I would think the 1st overall pick should be. And while Wentz might be playing with other FCS guys, his athletic ability then should jump off the screen (since everyone touts it) and it just doesnt.

Time will tell and we will have to revisit this after this year.

McNair, who won a NFL MVP award, was never more than above average at best? Both guys were/are average to below average? Joe Flacco rode an insanely good defense to the Super Bowl? I'm going to tell you that you're wrong and just stop here. This conversation won't go anywhere.

 

[jrry32]

The thing here that bothers me is that in the case of Flacco and McNair, the teams were not very good before they came on the scene and both programs plummeted after each guy left. Meaning? The player was so good he elevated the entire program.

Except that's not true about Flacco. Flacco started at Delaware in 2006 and 2007. In 2006, they went 5-6. In 2007, they went 11-4 and lost in the FCS National Championship game. After Flacco left, they went 4-8 in 2008, 6-5 in 2009, and then 12-3 in 2010 with a loss in the FCS National Championship game. So they had one down year and then immediately went back and did as well as they had with Flacco as a starter. And they were actually a good program before Flacco showed up. They won the National Championship with a 15-1 record in 2003, went to the playoffs and finished with a 9-4 record in 2004, and then dropped to 6-5 the year before Flacco became a starter.

They were an up and down program but Flacco's years weren't out of the ordinary for them during that stretch of time.

 

[dieterbrock]

Except that's not true about Flacco. Flacco started at Delaware in 2006 and 2007. In 2006, they went 5-6. In 2007, they went 11-4 and lost in the FCS National Championship game. After Flacco left, they went 4-8 in 2008, 6-5 in 2009, and then 12-3 in 2010 with a loss in the FCS National Championship game. So they had one down year and then immediately went back and did as well as they had with Flacco as a starter. And they were actually a good program before Flacco showed up. They won the National Championship with a 15-1 record in 2003, went to the playoffs and finished with a 9-4 record in 2004, and then dropped to 6-5 the year before Flacco became a starter.

They were an up and down program but Flacco's years weren't out of the ordinary for them during that stretch of time.

And McNair?