3rd Round | Pick 89, Rams select: QB Sean Mannion

[jrry32]

Lol anticipate the possibilities huh? Tell me, please, one team that has made the playoffs after losing their starting QB for the ENTIRE season. Hasn't happened in a LONG time....wonder why that is?

My friend, I really hope you aren't being serious with this question. I think we can all name one team that did that. They rallied around a certain QB...

 

[Memento]

My friend, I really hope you aren't being serious with this question. I think we can all name one team that did that. They rallied around a certain QB...

Yeah, some scrub named Kurt Warner...

 

[jrry32]

Why wou

Why wouldn't they? No O-line, no skill players, and an offense that wasn't getting it done. What other game plan would they use?

If the OL and skill players were really that bad, why blitz him? Why not just drop into coverage, allow your 4 man rush to dominate, and pick off passes when Mannion is forced to throw into tighter windows? By blitzing, you put less men in coverage, allow Mannion to read your blitzes, and potentially find your weakness on defense and exploit it. Plus, you give him bigger windows to throw into.

 

[Memento]

Why wou

Why wouldn't they? No O-line, no skill players, and an offense that wasn't getting it done. What other game plan would they use?

Oregon State has legit NFL prospects. Their line was decimated by injury. They didn't have much at receiver. But they still had Hunter Jarmon (2018 wide receiver who actually looks really good), Isaac Seumalo (the top center in 2016), Fred Lauina (a 2017 guard), and Storm Woods (a 2016 running back). Granted, it's not much, but it's far from nothing. Not to mention Cooks and Wheaton the last two years.

Their line was decimated, but Seumalo and Lauina were still active for every game. Woods was injured a bit, but Mannion didn't play especially well with him. Jarmon was a true freshman who exploded onto the scene.

I mean, he's a Ram, I'll cheer for him, but I never thought that he was better than Heinicke or Hundley.

But hey, I've been wrong before.

 

[RamFan503]

If the OL and skill players were really that bad, why blitz him? Why not just drop into coverage, allow your 4 man rush to dominate, and pick off passes when Mannion is forced to throw into tighter windows? By blitzing, you put less men in coverage, allow Mannion to read your blitzes, and potentially find your weakness on defense and exploit it. Plus, you give him bigger windows to throw into.

Because you can force better field position and defensive scoring opportunities when your offense had been sucking as Stanford's had been up to that game. Lying back in wait allows what they did have to at least get some time to work. The one thing they knew was that if they took Mannion out of the game, there really wasn't much else that could hurt them. Teams were pretty much able to man up on the Beavs all season so there was really no need to double anyone.

 

[lockdnram21]

So he riminds you of Flacco? Is Mannion arm as big as Flacco.

 

[lockdnram21]

I don't like Mannion for real. But weinke is one of the Better QB coaches and he had to see something in him worth telling Fisher to telling Fisher to draft him. Hopefully nothing happens to Foles and Mannion can sit a year. Hopefully that will help him

 

[RamFan503]

Oregon State has legit NFL prospects. Their line was decimated by injury. They didn't have much at receiver. But they still had Hunter Jarmon (2018 wide receiver who actually looks really good), Isaac Seumalo (the top center in 2016), Fred Lauina (a 2017 guard), and Storm Woods (a 2016 running back). Granted, it's not much, but it's far from nothing. Not to mention Cooks and Wheaton the last two years.

Their line was decimated, but Seumalo and Lauina were still active for every game. Woods was injured a bit, but Mannion didn't play especially well with him. Jarmon was a true freshman who exploded onto the scene.

I mean, he's a Ram, I'll cheer for him, but I never thought that he was better than Heinicke or Hundley.

But hey, I've been wrong before.

Saying that the Beavs had legit NFL talent on offense is a huge stretch. It's one thing to look at their players and think there is potential. But if that potential was there, they would have had more than two drafted from FOUR years of football. It's not like the NFL scouts are going to see a top lineman and think - Oh... but he had Mannion making him look good. Even if what you say is correct in that the O-line was "decimated" by injuries, that would indicate that Mannion had to play behind a "decimated" O-line. Any way you want to parse it, it is still a crappy O-line.

I'll give you Cooks and maybe Wheaton but so? Mannion didn't exactly waste their talent - now did he?

Storm Woods might be something but hasn't really showed much aside from his Freshman year. He MIGHT get drafted - maybe. My bet is UDFA if he sees the NFL at all.

Jarmon Hunter? You mean the kid who barely beat out Gilmore as an underneath receiver? Seriously? Have you actually watched his highlights? Oh wait. There are none.

I don't think I'd say the O-line was "decimated" by injuries. They had a key injury (Seumalo) and that was definitely a disappointment when he went down as our only real O-line talent. He's from right up the road so everyone really wanted him to kick some ass. Lauina is a strong, semi talented RG that barely made the line-up because he couldn't move his damn feet. He was also in and out because of weak shoulders. That's some huge talent on that O-line.

So - especially if you are looking at 2014 - yeah it's not only not far from nothing, it figuratively IS nothing.

 

[SteezyEndo]

Mannion isn't going to start right away. He will be a student b4 he gets on the field. I think he can intake a lot of knowledge and use it to his advantage. He will be a useful asset.

 

[jrry32]

Because you can force better field position and defensive scoring opportunities when your offense had been sucking as Stanford's had been up to that game. Lying back in wait allows what they did have to at least get some time to work. The one thing they knew was that if they took Mannion out of the game, there really wasn't much else that could hurt them. Teams were pretty much able to man up on the Beavs all season so there was really no need to double anyone.

RF503, I value your insight but I gotta disagree here. If Stanford felt Mannion's supporting cast was so dreadful, they wouldn't have utilized the game-plan they did. They saw a weakness in Mannion's game and capitalized on it.

You can beat a defense bring 6-7 blitzers even with a weak supporting cast. Blitzing like that leaves you susceptible to quick hitters and hot routes. And those sort of throws have the potential to result in a huge play because you have so few guys in coverage. Stanford was gambling all game long that they wouldn't get burned and they didn't.

They were bringing the blitzes from every direction and Mannion was struggling to recognize and exploit them. And he's definitely not athletic enough to do much escaping when they bring pressure. They recognized that if they could force him off his spot and to make quick decisions, he'd struggle. And he did.

 

[den-the-coach]

@jrry32 Mannion scored 40 on the wonderlic can you give him kudos for that?

 

[paceram]

@jrry32 Mannion scored 40 on the wonderlic can you give him kudos for that?

Personally, I would had selected Petty or Hundley but the Rams have a lot smarter people on their staff than me and Mannion is apparently very intelligent (A 40 wonderlic score is not too shabby!), has great size and looked like he had a pretty good arm from the videoclips I have seen on him not to mention he is a coaches son which I don't think can hurt. And, like someone mentioned earlier the most important fact that he is now a Ram! I will admit that at first I was disappointed with his pick just like I was with most of the rest of the Rams draft (I liked most of their picks I just thought most of them were picked earlier than I expected) but the more I have read and seen of these players the better I feel about them being picked by the Rams (Of course, it could just be I am just trying to convince myself that this was a good draft!)!

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Never once did I say it is an exact science.

Did you read all of what I have posted in this discussion? I ask because if you had I don't think you would ask me to explain guys like Ryan Leaf and Vince Young.

Of course there are bad picks every year. My only contention is what makes guys bad picks, and my argument is that fans cannot possibly know. For example, is it feasible that Jason Smith, on a different team, could have been successful? YES! But we will never know. That goes for every single "bust". Which truly raises the question: why are there draft busts?? What makes a bust? There are a million possible answers to that question, but yet only two outcomes - bust, or not a bust. I could go through and give an opinion on every single player as to whether they will make it in the NFL, or not. And I could end up being more right than anyone else in the world - because at the end of the day, it would just be getting lucky with a 50% chance for each player.

And the explanation is relatively simple: on each play, a CB and WR, LB and FB, G and DT, T and DE face off right? On every single play, you can declare a winner and loser, whether they are involved in the play or not (which is essentially what advanced metrics do). In order to be deemed a "good" player, you need to win more than you lose.

But in order for that to occur, someone needs to lose more than they win - thus now they are a bust.

So in every single draft, there will be "busts" and "gems", "good" picks, and "bad" picks. But a player drafted by the Patriots and a player drafted by the Jaguars are NOT given equal circumstances, and thus cannot be judged so easily.

My contention here is, aside from what all I just wrote, fans don't even get to meet these players, and yet we form opinions and criticize the FO of the Rams as if we know everything. It's dumb.

It's not an exact science, but it's very complex. There are a million factors that can go in to whether or not a kid is successful, and just because some guy behind a computer said Vince Young would be a bust, doesn't mean he has any clue as to WHY Vince Young became a bust.

Then all you are saying is if you don't personally know a player then you cannot know if he will succeed? In some cases that is true. In most other cases it is false. I watched every PSU game that Jimmy Kennedy ever played. I hated that pick because I was able to accurately evaluate his game from watching him play. In fact I bet I saw him play more than the scouts and coaches ever did. Then there are cases like Ray Ray Armstrong where you get a pretty good idea of his character just from the news and scouting reports.

I understand that Tavon Austin still has time to improve but so far my evaluation of what he would be in the NFL is spot on. It wasn't luck. It was deductive reasoning.
Scouts have differing opinions all of the time. One scout will love a guy and another will hate him. Same guy, same games. How is that different than a fan observing play?

Regarding Vince Young, didn't you get a feel for who he was? Cant you say there are general rules to follow that could clue you into a guys prospects for success? Sure in some cases we need more information and in others we have enough. In the case of bad character guys I tend to say don't pick them, but I cannot research them like coaches. So I tend to stick to on field ability and how they translate to the NFL. However I do feel that in most cases if you give a guy millions that it will only amplify who he truly is. Despite his on field tools, I predict failure for Jameis Winston.

If the NFL really has access to so much more knowledge and information about prospects And still fail at the rate in which they do, then they are actually much worse at the player evaluations than some of the fans on this board who don't have as much access to information. Or maybe they take it too far and over analyze, which I contend every year. Just watch the games and you can see who can play.

 

[blue4]

I have agree with the members who don't feel like a FO is infallible. I have a lot of respect for NFL coaches, but drafting is as much a "feel" as it is a science. I think Mike Martz was a damn fine coach with a great innovative mind, but he had access to all the toys of measuring an athlete and still couldn't draft for shit. I'm not going to go back and name specific players, but I've seen quite a few players members of this website have singled out that have turned out better than choices we made.

Say you take a GM and a well informed fan who stays up on his college game and match them up head to head. Id be willing to bet the rate of successful draft picks would only favor the GM by 5 to 15 percent over about 5 years.*##

*Ozzie Newsome not included.


I'm not as well informed as most people as I don't really watch much college football so rounds 3-7 I don't follow much. But I do think that I could out draft the Raiders and the Browns.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Personally, I would had selected Petty or Hundley but the Rams have a lot smarter people on their staff than me and Mannion is apparently very intelligent (A 40 wonderlic score is not too shabby!), has great size and looked like he had a pretty good arm from the videoclips I have seen on him not to mention he is a coaches son which I don't think can hurt. And, like someone mentioned earlier the most important fact that he is now a Ram! I will admit that at first I was disappointed with his pick just like I was with most of the rest of the Rams draft (I liked most of their picks I just thought most of them were picked earlier than I expected) but the more I have read and seen of these players the better I feel about them being picked by the Rams (Of course, it could just be I am just trying to convince myself that this was a good draft!)!

I do the same thing Pace. Regardless of what I think PreDraft I try to be positive about the Rams picks and take a wait and see approach, hoping the staff knows more than I do. At least for the first year or two. However this time I figure I have to stick to my guns. I didn't think any QB in this draft amounts to anything other than maybe Mariota.

 

[Memento]

@jrry32 Mannion scored 40 on the wonderlic can you give him kudos for that?

Wonderlic scores don't often translate to NFL instincts or success. What did Dan Marino have, like a twenty-two or something like that? Ryan Fitzpatrick had a forty-eight, right? Out of all of the tests that the much-overrated Combine has, the Wonderlic has to be the most overrated of all.

 

[rams56]

He is a prospect. ...so anything I say may be proven wrong or right in a couple of years down the road but here is my thinking.....

First he does have a ton of highlights......
View: https://youtu.be/MAdQLCwKBO8
He has tools to work with. He is big and strong and has pro arm strength. When given time he was very productive in a pro style offense.

On the downside he does have to hasten his delivery and improve at reading NFL defenses as all rookies do.

But ultimately it's not about you or my evaluation of him. The Rams went through a process ( film ,interview, private workout, etc)and according to Fisher they had him as they're 3rd QB on they're board. And as Fisher said "We aren't just throwing darts up there". So no matter what our evaluation is of any of our players in this draft.....they made they're selections based on a lot more information then we have available to us.

Me personally. ...I feel like Mannion has a lot of upside....and with the talent surrounding him will be able to run this offense (with big plays in the passing game) very efficiently. ....some day.....but time will tell.....

Go Rams................

 

[Memento]

Saying that the Beavs had legit NFL talent on offense is a huge stretch. It's one thing to look at their players and think there is potential. But if that potential was there, they would have had more than two drafted from FOUR years of football. It's not like the NFL scouts are going to see a top lineman and think - Oh... but he had Mannion making him look good. Even if what you say is correct in that the O-line was "decimated" by injuries, that would indicate that Mannion had to play behind a "decimated" O-line. Any way you want to parse it, it is still a crappy O-line.

I'll give you Cooks and maybe Wheaton but so? Mannion didn't exactly waste their talent - now did he?

Storm Woods might be something but hasn't really showed much aside from his Freshman year. He MIGHT get drafted - maybe. My bet is UDFA if he sees the NFL at all.

Jarmon Hunter? You mean the kid who barely beat out Gilmore as an underneath receiver? Seriously? Have you actually watched his highlights? Oh wait. There are none.

I don't think I'd say the O-line was "decimated" by injuries. They had a key injury (Seumalo) and that was definitely a disappointment when he went down as our only real O-line talent. He's from right up the road so everyone really wanted him to kick some ass. Lauina is a strong, semi talented RG that barely made the line-up because he couldn't move his damn feet. He was also in and out because of weak shoulders. That's some huge talent on that O-line.

So - especially if you are looking at 2014 - yeah it's not only not far from nothing, it figuratively IS nothing.

Seumalo played every game, 503. He moved from center to play right tackle to cover for all of the injuries on the line, but he played every game and had two surgeries on his foot in the offseason.

As for Lauina, there are plenty of guards with lack of foot movement that went in last year's class alone. There's always an offensive line coach who thinks that they can coach up those players and unlock their potential.

Storm Woods and Jarmon Hunter (who, despite being a freshman, immediately clicked with Mannion and was his favorite target. There aren't any highlights of him yet, but I guarantee that there will be next year because he opened a lot of eyes with his skillset. Just watch the Mannion tapes; you'll hear Hunter's name all the time.) are far from "nothing."

Nothing would be like the 2009 Rams offense where Steven Jackson literally had nothing to support him and where we could - and would, if not for Jackson - have gone winless. Nothing would be like Mizzou's 2014 basketball team which had mostly freshmen, no talent, nine wins, twenty-three losses, eleven suspensions, and a coach who should've been fired at the end of his first year.

Mannion had something to work with, even in a dismal year like 2014. Like I said, I'll cheer for the guy now that he's a Ram, and I hope that he proves me wrong.

 

[den-the-coach]

Wonderlic scores don't often translate to NFL instincts or success. What did Dan Marino have, like a twenty-two or something like that? Ryan Fitzpatrick had a forty-eight, right? Out of all of the tests that the much-overrated Combine has, the Wonderlic has to be the most overrated of all.

True, but I don't think they're overrated especially for a quarterback...Actually you will find that the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Wilson & Flacco scored well and Dan Marino was a million years ago...Fitzpatrick was an ivy league grad so naturally his score would be higher.

Bradford scored a 38 so an essence it just another measuring tool, but to post they're overrated one could debate that other measuring sticks are overrated....Simply stated in this draft Mannion scored the highest wonderlic and was the tallest QB those aspects are factual and not debatable.

Besides @Memento we know you're not in the Mannion camp most of us were not, however, he's a Ram now and I for one hope he's the second coming of Dan Foutes.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

My friend, I really hope you aren't being serious with this question. I think we can all name one team that did that. They rallied around a certain QB...

Think you overlooked the word "entire"

Amazing how some of you just can't admit you could be wrong about Mannion.

This is going to either make football genius' out of some of you or put a huge dent in your credibility down the road, I guess we'll see. I guarantee I for one remember who said what, hey if the Mannion detractors are somehow:notworthy: actually right, I'll be the very first to congratulate you on your fore sight that Snisher miss calculated...and sing your praises as true football gods