2023 Pro Bowl

[RamFanWA]

heard on local sports radio that this is the first time since 2000 New England has 0 players in pro bowl

Ask me how bad I feel about that!!!!

 

[jjab360]

Just that he does not start games. He plays the majority of the time but he's not the starting nose tackle. Bobby Brown III is. He's not a starting 3-tech/4i that's Aaron Donald. Jonah Williams is the 3rd starter on the DL.

So, a starter is the guy that starts games and Turner is a heavy rotational guy... he stepped in as a starter when Brown was down and he always plays in the nickel defenses and he spells Brown at nose in the base defense (and Penny)

So, just looking at history, there has never been a defensive tackle make the Pro Bowl that wasn't a starter. In Pro Bowl history there have been a few DEs that made it, when they were rotational guys, just not defensive tackles.

So, that what I mean, he does not start in the base defense. It's not an insult it is a fact. And that fact penalizes him, an all guys in his situation that play DT.

On rare occations, very rare, do people make PB without being a starter...does not mean it's fair, just that it is a thing

Right.. I guess I just hadn't really paid that much attention to who was literally starting the game. I don't think that matters much considering Kobie has far out snapped BBIII this year 658 to 289. Second most snaps on the DL this year behind only AD with 865.

Saying that he's literally not the first person on the field seems like it doesn't really matter much in context if he's on the field way more. He has almost as many defensive snaps as pro bowler Lawrence with 672 and more snaps than pro bowler Hargrave with 615.

Also, I legitimately don't know where to find games started as a stat right now? I remember seeing it tracked on NFL.com but can't find it now.

 

[Londoner]

I legitimately don't know where to find games started as a stat right now?

Pro Football Reference has that stat.

2023 Los Angeles Rams Roster & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2023 Los Angeles Rams Roster, Players , Starters and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[JimY53]

Right.. I guess I just hadn't really paid that much attention to who was literally starting the game.

Players, coaches, and fans vote. Not starting costs players. I don't set the precedents it's just a fact that no non-staring DT has ever made the Pro Bowl.

Is it fair? No.
Should it be different and f/p/c look at snap counts? Sure.

But this year, and in 50-plus seasons it just wasn't going to happen for the first time. I am not even sure he was an alternate...though if he was it wasn't a high one.

Also, I legitimately don't know where to find games started as a stat right now? I remember seeing it tracked on NFL.com but can't find it now.

It's in stat sites ... ESPN, Fox, Pro Football Reference ...

Maybe in the future it will change, but even with other things available, Kobie just didn't have much of a shot for that and other reason ... he wasn't even an alternate.

System could use some changes.

 

[RamsOfCastamere]

NFL.com lists Dotson as a top 10 snub, so that's saying something since he's the only olineman listed. He might be an alternate if the Eagles or Cowboys make the Superbowl.

2024 Pro Bowl Games snubs: Josh Allen, Brandon Aiyuk among players left out

EDIT: The same guy also lists Kobie Turner and Ernest Jones first within his list of others he considered for his top 10 snub list.

 

[dieterbrock]

Nothing for nothing, but didnt they play the 2023 Pro Bowl already? With the Mannings?

 

[Allen2McVay]

Same guy also lists Turner and Jones lists others he considered for his top 10 snub list.

View attachment 63565

As someone who watches very little sports other than the NFL but watches an UN-healthy amount of NFL games (live, taped, Sunday Ticket and re-played on the NFLN), I consider this to be an Excellent List ... highlighted by Turner and Jones of the Rams, plus Davis, Okereke, Owusu-Koramoah, O'Neill, Kelly, Zeitler, Simmons, Rousseau, Granderson, Franklin and Pace.

Many of those guys are far-less-known and young but they really stood-out in my opinion.

The Pro Bowl Game itself became a joke years ago; and now many of the players selected are a joke.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

When a team is at the top and playing well, their fan base is motivated to vote. The fans are more excited about their team and vote with extreme bias.

 

[JYB]

Ironically

Just that he does not start games. He plays the majority of the time but he's not the starting nose tackle. Bobby Brown III is. He's not a starting 3-tech/4i that's Aaron Donald. Jonah Williams is the 3rd starter on the DL.

So, a starter is the guy that starts games and Turner is a heavy rotational guy... he stepped in as a starter when Brown was down and he always plays in the nickel defenses and he spells Brown at nose in the base defense (and Penny)

So, just looking at history, there has never been a defensive tackle make the Pro Bowl that wasn't a starter. In Pro Bowl history there have been a few DEs that made it, when they were rotational guys, just not defensive tackles.

So, that what I mean, he does not start in the base defense. It's not an insult it is a fact. And that fact penalizes him, an all guys in his situation that play DT.

On rare occations, very rare, do people make PB without being a starter...does not mean it's fair, just that it is a thing

Ironically, that may suggest that Turner is even better than his numbers indicate, that he did all that damage as a part time player.

But your point is taken and his being left off is understandable.

 

[JimY53]

Ironically

Ironically, that may suggest that Turner is even better than his numbers indicate, that he did all that damage as a part time player.

But your point is taken and his being left off is understandable.

I think he is better than his numbers because when I study him he does a lot of things that don't show up ... when a guy gets doubled team more than Aaron Donald it says lot

 

[tempests]

when a guy gets doubled team more than Aaron Donald it says lot

Rams move Donald all around the defensive front to find him one on ones. His double team % is lower than it normally is, but he has been lining up at end more than ever before.

 

[JimY53]

Rams move Donald all around the defensive front to find him one on ones. His double team % is lower than it normally is, but he has been lining up at end more than ever before.

Yes and no.

They do move Donald around but for different reasons in different situations. Some of it is pure scheme and some of it is matchups
When he plays different places on in base/penny defense it is because they want to move the line toward or away from the strength
and they want to have Donald on the proper side. So in those cases, he's not moving to get a one-on-one or to matchup on any particular guy. He'd move no matter what. Or if he's out of the game the guy in his position would do the exact same thing.

The same is true in a lot in the 4-2-5 nickel and he's inside. They want the front to match the coverages. Say you want the 3-tech on the wide side. So, in the 4-2-5 Donald is almost always the 3-tech and Turner is the shade tackle (1, 2i or whatever). Si they will see where the strong side of field or maybe the wide side and move accordingly. Again, if Murch were in for Donald he'd to the same thing.

Where they do what you are saying on the overload fronts. There are variations but Rams call it "Gold" and it it a 3x1 and Donald is often the "1", isolated on one side so they can run stunts and yes, try and get him in a one-on-one, just as you say.

But they are not doing it more this year. Slightly less than last year, a quite a bit less than 2020 and 2021.

He's actually playing inside more than in past two years (slightly) he's more at DT than DE (remember in the 3-4/5-1 he's often called and in)

But he's playing less end and edge than he did 2020-2021 -- marginally

So, the reason he's getting doubled less is because of Turner. Teams used to be able to put one guy on the shade/NT and get away with it -- no need to give Gaines special attention. Sometimes they have to just make sure Turner is blocked and they throw a couple of guys at him. There are only so many OLmen+ RB to take the 4 or 5 rushers

 

[Loyal]

I may go since it's here in O-Town again... but hopefully none of our players play in the game due to their season not being completed yet.

I'd get a kick out of meeting Puka.

You'll have to present him with an authentic Puca shell necklace from your home island!