12th Man Sets Guiness Record

[Thordaddy]

OBTW we lost yesterday because of this exact issue,just sayin,we weren't outplayed we just weren't good enough to beat the AND their fans,if you'd played that game in an empty stadium we'd have destroyed them.

 

[Selassie I]

Just to be clear here... I'm no spring chicken (46),,, however, I am not a Grandpa like somebody else we know who's also 46 :sly:

I do remember how the refs used to make the home crowds quiet down... I just can't remember the reasoning given for doing a 180 on it. I can't believe that I don't remember any of the reasoning behind the change.

 

[-X-]

We're gonna play there late this year, and it very well could be for a playoff spot,what a travesty it would be if we miss the playoffs because they want to set another worlds record instead of seeing the superior team advance.

The league needs to do something it's gotten out of hand.

Would you have the same concerns if it was the Edward Jones Dome that set the record? Again, I really dislike that team, its stadium and its fans, but if their fan base is able to generate that kind of HFA, then good for them. They put themselves in the position of cultivating that kind of advantage, and they're going to continue to make it a reality. Every single one of them (rightfully so), wants to take credit for being famous in this regard.

I think a lawsuit is completely out of the question too. A precedent has already been set with the breaking of the record, so anyone that goes there does so with full knowledge that the atmosphere is going to be exceedingly loud. I think the expectation of reasonable safety only applies to physical well-being; and the OSHA standards you cite are only for workplace safety, so only employees of the stadium can lodge a complaint. That won't be happening anytime soon, I don't think.

It is an interesting topic though, Thor. If you know anyone with some legal expertise in this area (not sure what area that would be), maybe you could run it by them and see if there's even a case? Visiting fans would probably be able to sue (because you can sue for virtually anything nowadays), but it would be good to know if it's even something that can be filed.

That is what is known as an ignoratio elenchi,IOW I am not the subject nor what is what I like nor dislike the subject,IF I was the most foam at the mouth asshat in the stadium and had altered my vocal chords to emit 400 decibels of ear shattering noise WOULDN'T change what I am contending here.
If I was a hypocrite WOULD that change how you felt about the 12th man?
It shouldn't, the fans being rewarded for behavior that effects the game is the issue here for me and when it gets to the point this has you really need to take notice and realize what you allow you teach and the NFL is ASKING for trouble over this. And again they changed a rule for the worse,I fail to see it wasn't ,I don't need an 8-8 team that can only win at home because we are so loud the other team can't run a play and that's where this shit is headed.

I don't care what it's called. I'm just asking if you would have the same concerns. I'm already on record saying that I don't *like* anything about the seadderall seahawks, but I don't really see anything wrong with them creating that kind of advantage for their team. I'd be pleased as punch if the dome (which could easily break the record due to its enclosed design) was able to generate that kind of advantage for OUR team.

And upon further review I DO CARE what it's called because as I said ,I am not the issue here,my attitudes don't change whether it's a bastardization of competitive advantage and since you are adamant about wanting to KNOW how I would view it, I want a team that doesn't need that to win at home,I want a team that can win because they are better and relying upon "crutches" in competition and life breeds cripples.
So NO that's a game I don't want to engage in, hearty cheers of appreciation for a job well done an effort well made,fine, but LIKE I said X I saw a St.L Cardinal team get robbed of the likelihood of a World Championship by a HHHumphry crowd blowing whistles and other shenanigans WORTHY of Ray Lewis' crackpot FIX theories and that league outlaws artificial noise makers now as does the NFL,it's a principle as you say, and if principles aren't worth fighting for WTF is.

Once again I apologize to my fellow posters for being strident about this, is there little doubt after the way the 49r's were throttled last night that the same thing is going to happen to us?If we go in there needing a win to get in the playoffs ,will the game be worth watching ?

Are you going to defend it then X? Cheated out of it,I'd fucking rather they taped our walk through,at least we were allowed to compete in that game.

I ask kindly ,broach this subject with Mr.Demoff if you have a chance, the appropriate response to that thuggery is just not IMO more of the same ,escalation is not the answer but it will be if the league doesn't get a grip on it,it's seriously diminishing my desire to watch the sport and as the old Slattery's people line went "hey it's just one guy complaining,but every complaint represents 10,000 who are silent" er sumthin like that.

I don't understand. You don't want to answer me because it's not about you, but then you ask me if I'd still defend it under different circumstances (making it about me)? Well, the answer is still yes. I'm pretty consistent that way. If their crowd causes us to lose, then we weren't meant to win. Just like any aspect of any other game not on your own turf, you have to trust the coaches to game plan against things, and the players to execute under the guidelines of that game plan.

I refuse (REFUSE) to accept that we can't win a game because the opposing team's fans are being too loud. The quickest way to neutralize that is to kick the shit out of their team early and often.

 

[jjab360]

It's not like they were at 130 DBs the entire game, just small periods of time after big plays.

 

[albefree69]

So if someone in the crowd has a mirror and they use it to redirect sunlight to blind the QB when he's trying to pass that's fair and his team wasn't meant to win? That strikes me as wrong on so many fronts. I'm not saying that directly equates to fans being loud but it's still something being used that's inherently unfair. That's why championship games are played at neutral sites isn't it?

 

[-X-]

So if someone in the crowd has a mirror and they use it to redirect sunlight to blind the QB when he's trying to pass that's fair and his team wasn't meant to win? That strikes me as wrong on so many fronts.

Well, that's good. Because I never made that claim. I'm sure if the entire crowd had assault rifles and started to pick off Rams players on the bench, that I wouldn't be in agreement with that either. Don't even get me started on IEDs and hand grenades, because I'll start a petition.

 

[albefree69]

Sorry X but I was still editing my post.

 

[-X-]

So if someone in the crowd has a mirror and they use it to redirect sunlight to blind the QB when he's trying to pass that's fair and his team wasn't meant to win? That strikes me as wrong on so many fronts. I'm not saying that directly equates to fans being loud but it's still something being used that's inherently unfair. That's why championship games are played at neutral sites isn't it?

Okay, to address your edit.

What exactly constitutes "Home Field Advantage" then? Just the fact that it's on your field, or is it because you get your crowd behind you? That's all announcers ever talk about when crowds begin to get loud. It's the advantage the home team has. I don't know how it's unfair if every team has 8 games on the road and 8 at home. It's why the playoffs are also seeded the way they are. So that the more successful teams enjoy the advantage of playing at home.

I just don't see what the big deal is. In fact, I'm kind of envious. I wish the Ed was jumping like that.
And in fact, it very well could be.

 

[EastRam]

I just don't see what the big deal is. In fact, I'm kind of envious. I wish the Ed was jumping like that.
And in fact, it very well could be.

Yup..

The Ed needs to start giving away that shitty starbucks coffee with all that caffeine before every game and get the ED all JACKED UP! :lmao:

Sea Chicken fans are all starbucked! :lmao:

 

[Mojo Ram]

Just to be clear here... I'm no spring chicken (46),,, however, I am not a Grandpa like somebody else we know who's also 46 :sly:

I do remember how the refs used to make the home crowds quiet down... I just can't remember the reasoning given for doing a 180 on it. I can't believe that I don't remember any of the reasoning behind the change.

I remember that too. I'm only 44. Could the reason be something as simple as technology when they put earphones in the helmets? Not sure when that started. Maybe i'll look it up.

 

[albefree69]

X added:
What exactly constitutes "Home Field Advantage" then? Just the fact that it's on your field, or is it because you get your crowd behind you? That's all announcers ever talk about when crowds begin to get loud. It's the advantage the home team has. I don't know how it's unfair if every team has 8 games on the road and 8 at home. It's why the playoffs are also seeded the way they are. So that the more successful teams enjoy the advantage of playing at home.

I just don't see what the big deal is. In fact, I'm kind of envious. I wish the Ed was jumping like that.
And in fact, it very well could be.

There are many home field advantages that have nothing to do with crowd noise but I'll just talk about crowd noise (although I can rattle off a bunch if you ask). It's one thing to have your fans cheering on your team and pumping up your adrenaline. It's quite another thing to be so loud that the other team can't get their plays off correctly. The NFL recognizes that unfairness and will call a timeout, if requested, to allow the noise to die down (although that usually just makes it worse but that's immaterial). Why would they do that if they didn't think it was unfair too? Just like with my over the top example of the mirror, there are and should be limits to the "home field advantage".

Is having a snow plow come out on the field to remove snow for a FG try a home field advantage or is it unfair/cheating?

As far as I'm concerned, fairness=equality is what America stands for.

 

[-X-]

X added:
What exactly constitutes "Home Field Advantage" then? Just the fact that it's on your field, or is it because you get your crowd behind you? That's all announcers ever talk about when crowds begin to get loud. It's the advantage the home team has. I don't know how it's unfair if every team has 8 games on the road and 8 at home. It's why the playoffs are also seeded the way they are. So that the more successful teams enjoy the advantage of playing at home.

I just don't see what the big deal is. In fact, I'm kind of envious. I wish the Ed was jumping like that.
And in fact, it very well could be.

There are many home field advantages that have nothing to do with crowd noise but I'll just talk about crowd noise (although I can rattle off a bunch if you ask). It's one thing to have your fans cheering on your team and pumping up your adrenaline. It's quite another thing to be so loud that the other team can't get their plays off correctly. The NFL recognizes that unfairness and will call a timeout, if requested, to allow the noise to die down (although that usually just makes it worse but that's immaterial). Why would they do that if they didn't think it was unfair too? Just like with my over the top example of the mirror, there are and should be limits to the "home field advantage".

Is having a snow plow come out on the field to remove snow for a FG try a home field advantage or is it unfair/cheating?

As far as I'm concerned, fairness=equality is what America stands for.

Well, like I said... every team gets 8 at home and 8 on the road. If the home crowd for any given team not in Seattle pales by comparison, then it's up to said crowds to up the anty or level the playing field in some way. This really isn't something that I'm flexible on, so I don't think we're gonna get very far. I just think that "cheating" is a pretty harsh word, and I'm relatively sure nobody would have an issue with it if the Rams' home crowd were doing the same. In fact, I heard a lot of this "criticism" of the GSOT Rams (they're piping in noise) from other teams' fans.

It's really a non-issue for me, so.... :idk:

 

[albefree69]

The cheating comment had nothing to do with crowd noise, it had everything to do with the Cheatriots doing that in the playoffs. Remember that? Cheating bastids! :grr:

 

[-X-]

The cheating comment had nothing to do with crowd noise, it had everything to do with the Cheatriots doing that in the playoffs. Remember that?

Yes. Yes I do. THAT was wrong, but an entirely different matter.

The league outlawed that the following year, so if the league determines that a certain decibel of crowd noise is unacceptable, then they'll have to roll out another rule reflecting same. Of course that's going to be VERY difficult to quantity during a game, so I figure they'd rather let that slide and hope that other teams' crowds pick up on the trend. This kind of press isn't bad for the NFL, so they're probably not inclined to do anything about it.

 

[albefree69]

True.

 

[Thordaddy]

Well I'm certainly glad I brought this up

 

[Thordaddy]

We're gonna play there late this year, and it very well could be for a playoff spot,what a travesty it would be if we miss the playoffs because they want to set another worlds record instead of seeing the superior team advance.

The league needs to do something it's gotten out of hand.

Would you have the same concerns if it was the Edward Jones Dome that set the record? Again, I really dislike that team, its stadium and its fans, but if their fan base is able to generate that kind of HFA, then good for them. They put themselves in the position of cultivating that kind of advantage, and they're going to continue to make it a reality. Every single one of them (rightfully so), wants to take credit for being famous in this regard.

I think a lawsuit is completely out of the question too. A precedent has already been set with the breaking of the record, so anyone that goes there does so with full knowledge that the atmosphere is going to be exceedingly loud. I think the expectation of reasonable safety only applies to physical well-being; and the OSHA standards you cite are only for workplace safety, so only employees of the stadium can lodge a complaint. That won't be happening anytime soon, I don't think.

It is an interesting topic though, Thor. If you know anyone with some legal expertise in this area (not sure what area that would be), maybe you could run it by them and see if there's even a case? Visiting fans would probably be able to sue (because you can sue for virtually anything nowadays), but it would be good to know if it's even something that can be filed.

That is what is known as an ignoratio elenchi,IOW I am not the subject nor what is what I like nor dislike the subject,IF I was the most foam at the mouth asshat in the stadium and had altered my vocal chords to emit 400 decibels of ear shattering noise WOULDN'T change what I am contending here.
If I was a hypocrite WOULD that change how you felt about the 12th man?
It shouldn't, the fans being rewarded for behavior that effects the game is the issue here for me and when it gets to the point this has you really need to take notice and realize what you allow you teach and the NFL is ASKING for trouble over this. And again they changed a rule for the worse,I fail to see it wasn't ,I don't need an 8-8 team that can only win at home because we are so loud the other team can't run a play and that's where this shit is headed.

I don't care what it's called. I'm just asking if you would have the same concerns. I'm already on record saying that I don't *like* anything about the seadderall seahawks, but I don't really see anything wrong with them creating that kind of advantage for their team. I'd be pleased as punch if the dome (which could easily break the record due to its enclosed design) was able to generate that kind of advantage for OUR team.

And upon further review I DO CARE what it's called because as I said ,I am not the issue here,my attitudes don't change whether it's a bastardization of competitive advantage and since you are adamant about wanting to KNOW how I would view it, I want a team that doesn't need that to win at home,I want a team that can win because they are better and relying upon "crutches" in competition and life breeds cripples.
So NO that's a game I don't want to engage in, hearty cheers of appreciation for a job well done an effort well made,fine, but LIKE I said X I saw a St.L Cardinal team get robbed of the likelihood of a World Championship by a HHHumphry crowd blowing whistles and other shenanigans WORTHY of Ray Lewis' crackpot FIX theories and that league outlaws artificial noise makers now as does the NFL,it's a principle as you say, and if principles aren't worth fighting for WTF is.

Once again I apologize to my fellow posters for being strident about this, is there little doubt after the way the 49r's were throttled last night that the same thing is going to happen to us?If we go in there needing a win to get in the playoffs ,will the game be worth watching ?

Are you going to defend it then X? Cheated out of it,I'd fucking rather they taped our walk through,at least we were allowed to compete in that game.

I ask kindly ,broach this subject with Mr.Demoff if you have a chance, the appropriate response to that thuggery is just not IMO more of the same ,escalation is not the answer but it will be if the league doesn't get a grip on it,it's seriously diminishing my desire to watch the sport and as the old Slattery's people line went "hey it's just one guy complaining,but every complaint represents 10,000 who are silent" er sumthin like that.

I don't understand. You don't want to answer me because it's not about you, but then you ask me if I'd still defend it under different circumstances (making it about me)? Well, the answer is still yes. I'm pretty consistent that way. If their crowd causes us to lose, then we weren't meant to win. Just like any aspect of any other game not on your own turf, you have to trust the coaches to game plan against things, and the players to execute under the guidelines of that game plan.

I refuse (REFUSE) to accept that we can't win a game because the opposing team's fans are being too loud. The quickest way to neutralize that is to kick the shit out of their team early and often.

I did answer your question it's bolded .

I don't really think the scenario I posed is close to being at all far fetched, what is more you can refuse to accept whatever ,what you can not deny is that the game of football can and often does turn on the outcome of a single play, preventing a QB from audible-ing out of a play causing false starts ,those things DO effect outcomes of games and you were earlier in the thread wholeheartedly in favor of US winning because we did what they do. So explain PLEASZE that there contradiction Mr DUDE.

AS I see you don't think a mirror would be OK IOW effecting the sense of sight would be beyond your line BUT YOU DO draw a line where fan participation becomes unacceptable,seems I draw my line a little ahead of where you do I believe the sense of hearing is JUST as important often enough in the game fans aught not be able to impede it.

 

[Rabid Ram]

To me its simple football is a game played for the FANS. if fans gets excited and loud for their team i dont see an issue with it. Other then buying the teams stuff its their way to contribute and feel like part of the team.

I agree fully with X if this were the rams i really don't think this thread exist. Add to that this is Seattle a hated rival it becomes unfair.

I for one wish the ed was this loud our louder. Unlike the exaggerated mirror example there arw many ways around crowd noise. Hand singnal headset in qbs helmet and practice practice practice even pump crowd noise into practice if ya got to.

Albe i would like you to give out your list of the plethora of advantages of home field advantage other than no travel and crowd noise.

 

[albefree69]

No problem Rabid, I'll do that in the morning when my head is on straight. :boing:

 

[Rabid Ram]

No problem Rabid, I'll do that in the morning when my head is on straight. :boing:

Nope i call home forum advantage and demand them right now haha jk