What happens when a franchise QB goes bad

[BonifayRam]

Saw this article on the Rams... Sam Bradford's NFL .com page. look to the right side with the top title of this post.
http://www.nfl.com/player/sambradford/497095/profile
You click on it & it takes you to this article which is long & does mention many other QB's but it also includes & mentions Sam Bradford often.Thought you all might find it interesting. Just to let you know this article does not include Bradford as one of the franchise QB's going bad but that was the title of the top article on the Sam Bradford page.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...matt-schaub-exhibit-nfls-eternal-qb-conundrum

The oldest -- and perhaps truest -- cliché in football is that you build your team around your quarterback. But at what point do you decide you made a mistake and start over? It's a question that the leaders of every NFL franchise must ponder sooner or later. And if they don't make the right decision, they'll find themselves pondering it repeatedly........

.....What makes these decisions additionally fascinating is that they come on the eve of the deepest quarterback draft in years, at a time when the league is going to see the QB market suddenly flooded. With a number of first-round talents expected to be available in the 2014 NFL Draft, plus Sam Bradford, Cam Newton and Jay Cutler all likely to be seeking new contracts, it's going to be -- for the first time in a long time -- a buyer's market for quarterback talent.....

......Bradford has plenty of excuses, having worked with three different offensive coordinators/systems in four seasons, as well as an extremely limited supporting cast. In some ways, he looks like he could evolve into an Alex Smith-type quarterback -- one who doesn't turn over the ball much, having averaged one pick every 46 pass attempts. But he also doesn't throw many scoring strikes, averaging one TD pass every 30 attempts. (You'd like your QB to be closer to the 1-in-20 range.) Bradford was on pace for a strong 2013 season -- projected to have a 32-to-9 TD-to-INT ratio -- but now he must start over fresh in 2014 after rehabbing from his season-ending knee injury........

......Both of these quarterbacks will be looking for big deals in the near future. While the Rams have Bradford signed through 2015, his salary-cap number will be more than $17 million next year. Newton will be in a contract season in 2014. It remains to be seen if the Rams and Panthers will pony up.....

Will Bradford and Newton eventually find themselves in the same place as Freeman and Schaub? I think Bradford deserves (and likely will get) another chance -- though he needs more weapon to succeed. At the same time, the Rams -- with two first-round picks in a quarterback-heavy draft -- might be tempted to start over.

Interesting read & I do not agree with that Alex Smith comparison. I have heard over & over that Snead & Fisher say they are committed to Bradford, but they could be staring at some nice quarterback options at the top of next season's draft. Just in case I wonder what the next 2016 Bradford contract will cost when his rookie contact got him over 13 million a year 78 million overall ? How many Rams like Chris Long & JL may get caught up in the releases to get the figures close. Cam Newton is burning HOT currently.

Saw this news on Sam too...

Coach Jeff Fisher said Rams QB Sam Bradford had his knee surgery Monday in Pensacola, Fla. Dr. James Andrews performed the surgery.

 

[Warner4Prez]

projected to have a 32-to-9 TD-to-INT ratio

*WARNING* A lot of ifs coming!
Damn, I know it was tough sledding for the Rams at times this year, but I'm surprised to see that. I know it's a projection and it could go either way, but with the emergence of the running game as it's been, I don't see any reason Bradford couldn't match (or surpass) those numbers.
If Bradford put up numbers like that last year, he'd be a Top 5 scoring QB...yardage is another story, but who gives a damn about yards if you're putting points on the board.
Without crunching numbers too hard right now (coffee flow is limited), I think he'd be Top 3 scoring QB at that pace this year behind Manning and Brees? That's just looking at current stats and doing some quick math.
Seriously people, I know it's frustrating seeing the up and down performance of this team, but Bradford really gives this team a fighting chance from under center. It certainly ain't the Saints or Eagles whatever flavor of the week offense is popping off, but 32 to 9 is ROCK SOLID. Call him a game manager, Captain Check-Down, boring...whatever. Those stats would get results.
If he wasn't hurt. :slap:

 

[iBruce]

I don't see us letting go of Bradford anytime soon. I'm guessing he'll get another big contract... just hope it's not much more than what we're currently paying him. I'd really like to see us draft a backup QB this year though.

Also, I don't like the comparison to Alex Smith either. I think a Matt Ryan / Stafford comparison is better.

 

[-X-]

It's worth keeping an eye on, but I don't think the Rams are gonna upset the apple cart by trying to start over with a new QB. Despite what the very vocal detractors say.

Two reasons.

1. Sam is a very good QB, imo.
2. He fits the mold of what they're trying to do.

I can see them bringing in competition, but not at a premium. There are other salaries on this team that aren't commensurate with the production, so I'd start there first and try to (TRY TO) extend Sam. That said, the injury concern is something that only the Rams can speak to. No idea how that affects their thinking.

 

[F. Mulder]

Does anyone have a guess on IF he is extended what the number of years and average annual salary will be? We DO think if he is going to be extended his annual salary will average lower than what he is scheduled for in 2014 ($17M?) right? Four year extension? Total price _______?

Thoughts?

 

[Angry Ram]

*Warning profanity laden post*

I'd print this shit out and use it to wipe my ass with it. That's how I view anything written by Brian fuckin Billick.

First, there is no stupid fuckin "QB conundrum" or whatever the fuck he wants to call it. Blame no one but the stupid fuckin media itself who coined that idiotic phrase "it's a QB driven league" bullshit. That made every other player on a team seem unimportant.

Second, he goes on the mention Matthew Stafford, Carson Palmer, Alex Smith, and Michael Vick don't have "Eli's rings?" Don't you mean...the *Giants* rings? Eli Manning is a great QB but really it took a team effort...twice...to get there.

Third and probably the stupidest shit I see almost on a weekly basis, is that garbage phrase of "lifting his team". Shut up, a QB doesn't play defense. Carolina's D was horrible last year, does a 180 this year, and suddenly the team is playing a helluva lot better. Cam Newton didn't "lift" anyone. The Panthers...they got better. How the fuck is ONE player supposed to "lift" a defense or ST play? Come the fuck on.

So as you can see, I don't give a flying fuck about this "article" and what it says...except to point out it's stupidity.

 

[BigRamFan]

Wish I could like that one more than once oh Angry one!!!

 

[duckhunter]

Fisher has already said SB is his QB in 14. So whatever any of us say doesn't matter, period.

With that said, I'll play along with the thread. Sam hasn't proved much one way or the other for whatever reason. Without going into some long analysis of SB, I'd boil the pertinent facts down to SB has OK stats and doesn't throw many interceptions but the team hasn't had a winning record with him under center. Next year, everyone is excited if they make the playoffs but another losing season and the odds are fans will want changes. So I wouldn't rush to resign him to a long term extension just yet since we have him under contract through 15.

The talent on the team has really improved so the lack of talent excuse shouldn't be valid anymore. It's make or break year for Sammy.

These sort of decisions/circumstances usually come down to how does the pudding taste. After shytty pudding for a long time, 7-8-1 pudding tasted ok last year but this year's pudding is not any better. I want playoff pudding next year. No more excuses.

 

[jap]

*Warning profanity laden post*

I'd print this shyte out and use it to wipe my ass with it. That's how I view anything written by Brian freakin Billick.

First, there is no stupid freakin "QB conundrum" or whatever the Freak he wants to call it. Blame no one but the stupid freakin media itself who coined that idiotic phrase "it's a QB driven league" bullshit. That made every other player on a team seem unimportant.

Second, he goes on the mention Matthew Stafford, Carson Palmer, Alex Smith, and Michael Vick don't have "Eli's rings?" Don't you mean...the *Giants* rings? Eli Manning is a great QB but really it took a team effort...twice...to get there.

Third and probably the stupidest shyte I see almost on a weekly basis, is that garbage phrase of "lifting his team". Shut up, a QB doesn't play defense. Carolina's D was horrible last year, does a 180 this year, and suddenly the team is playing a helluva lot better. Cam Newton didn't "lift" anyone. The Panthers...they got better. How the Freak is ONE player supposed to "lift" a defense or ST play? Come the Freak on.

So as you can see, I don't give a flying Freak about this "article" and what it says...except to point out it's stupidity.

nm

 

[fearsomefour]

It's worth keeping an eye on, but I don't think the Rams are gonna upset the apple cart by trying to start over with a new QB. Despite what the very vocal detractors say.

Two reasons.

1. Sam is a very good QB, imo.
2. He fits the mold of what they're trying to do.

I can see them bringing in competition, but not at a premium. There are other salaries on this team that aren't commensurate with the production, so I'd start there first and try to (TRY TO) extend Sam. That said, the injury concern is something that only the Rams can speak to. No idea how that affects their thinking.

I can see them bringing in competition for the number 2 spot. In reality they could draft a guy this year with the possibility of a long term replacement, sort of irrisponsible not to. However your second reason is a big one. There is a plan and a vision. It is easy to fall in love with the flavor of the month, but, bringing in a uber athletic QB who can run doesnt fit what they are building. A guy who should be smart about such things like Jaworski was deeming Kap a HOF QB after 8 starts….too easy to get swept up.
Sam is the man. I dont think he is going anywhere. For one thing a GM/Coach would need a viable option to replace him and improve the position. There will be none in FA. In the draft is there anyone that is that much of a slam dunk? We all have guys we favor….slam dunk? No.

 

[Warner4Prez]

Fisher has already said SB is his QB in 14. So whatever any of us say doesn't matter, period.

With that said, I'll play along with the thread. Sam hasn't proved much one way or the other for whatever reason. Without going into some long analysis of SB, I'd boil the pertinent facts down to SB has OK stats and doesn't throw many interceptions but the team hasn't had a winning record with him under center. Next year, everyone is excited if they make the playoffs but another losing season and the odds are fans will want changes. So I wouldn't rush to resign him to a long term extension just yet since we have him under contract through 15.

The talent on the team has really improved so the lack of talent excuse shouldn't be valid anymore. It's make or break year for Sammy.

These sort of decisions/circumstances usually come down to how does the pudding taste. After shytty pudding for a long time, 7-8-1 pudding tasted ok last year but this year's pudding is not any better. I want playoff pudding next year. No more excuses.

Fair enough, but as to the 'talent has improved' argument, where exactly? The running game took a step backward. Austin had failed to make an impact up until last week, Quick is still absent, Givens' production isn't where it was last season, Bailey has hardly set foot on the field as an offensive player and Cook is apparently who we thought he was in Tennessee. Looks like a push across the board.

The old, "Give'm a year to develop" line is still in play. Believe me, I'm tired of it too. But that doesn't or shouldn't fall on Bradford's shoulders. I'd love to see the guy take the next step, I'm also curious as to why he hasn't yet. But the failure of talent to grow around him, I don't think falls on him.

 

[nighttrain]

I don't see us letting go of Bradford anytime soon. I'm guessing he'll get another big contract... just hope it's not much more than what we're currently paying him. I'd really like to see us draft a backup QB this year though.

Also, I don't like the comparison to Alex Smith either. I think a Matt Ryan / Stafford comparison is better.

good post
train

 

[blackbart]

I wish Bradford had been able to finish this year no of these hypothetical rantings would be valid if he could have continued the production he started with. It is more likely they all improved on those first half numbers too.

 

[A55VA6]

Sam will definitely play out his whole contract.. I can't see the Rams not doing that. He'll be here and he'll be our starter. If he gets hurt again next year or has a bad season, it might be time to look at a different QB for the future. But I just imagine having Bradford with the changes we've made and established the run game with Stacy, I think we'd be right in the mix of the playoff battle. I still say we would've beaten Seattle and Tennessee if we had Sam. Kellen has done a good job but Sam obviously gives the Rams more ability. I've been critical of Bradford at times, but I wear his jersey every Sunday and I have a feeling he's going to come back better than ever next year. And people WILL be talking about him.

 

[jap]

Sam will definitely play out his whole contract.. I can't see the Rams not doing that. He'll be here and he'll be our starter. If he gets hurt again next year or has a bad season, it might be time to look at a different QB for the future. But I just imagine having Bradford with the changes we've made and established the run game with Stacy, I think we'd be right in the mix of the playoff battle. I still say we would've beaten Seattle and Tennessee if we had Sam. Kellen has done a good job but Sam obviously gives the Rams more ability. I've been critical of Bradford at times, but I wear his jersey every Sunday and I have a feeling he's going to come back better than ever next year. And people WILL be talking about him.

It can actually be constructive for a QB to observe the field from the sidelines and gain a greater appreciation for team & opponent on-filed dynamics.

 

[duckhunter]

Fair enough, but as to the 'talent has improved' argument, where exactly? The running game took a step backward. Austin had failed to make an impact up until last week, Quick is still absent, Givens' production isn't where it was last season, Bailey has hardly set foot on the field as an offensive player and Cook is apparently who we thought he was in Tennessee. Looks like a push across the board.

The old, "Give'm a year to develop" line is still in play. Believe me, I'm tired of it too. But that doesn't or shouldn't fall on Bradford's shoulders. I'd love to see the guy take the next step, I'm also curious as to why he hasn't yet. But the failure of talent to grow around him, I don't think falls on him.

I think everyone knew it was going to be a growing year to some extent but expected a playoff run late as they gelled. But to your question.

The OLine talent and play has improved considerably. I have no problem with Long, Barksdale, or Wells for the most part. If Saffold stays healthy his play is way above average. We have a little depth which we never had. I believe the running game talent has improved with Stacy, Richardson and Cunningham and their play will only get better next year. The TEs are much better and have potential and experience. The receivers have more talent but the production is not up to snuff and they are young and inexperienced. This offense still has plenty of the pieces in place. Sam has to work with what he's got. We can't go out and get a cast of all pros. It don't work that way.

As far as I'm concerned, I said last year 'one more year with Sam.' He gets injured early so it's still one more year.

Well, if next year is not a good year, then you have to look at either the GM, head coach, OC, QB or some combination. It will be Sam's 5th year. How much longer will they try to go with him? I think his leash is only as long as next year. Does Fisher fall on his sword over Bradford? I doubt it.

 

[Thordaddy]

I think it would be delicious if we get a top five pick from Washington this year decide to trade it and someone picks a Q-back who CLEARLY outshines RGIII and we can then dispense with the dumb fucks who think WE lost that trade.I rate the chances of that as being pretty good in view of the players who will be available and the current state of disfunction in the Redskin organization. MAN AM I GLAD we didn't draft THAT GUY,heza spoiled brat.

 

[A55VA6]

I think it would be delicious if we get a top five pick from Washington this year decide to trade it and someone picks a Q-back who CLEARLY outshines RGIII and we can then dispense with the dumb fucks who think WE lost that trade.I rate the chances of that as being pretty good in view of the players who will be available and the current state of disfunction in the Redskin organization. MAN AM I GLAD we didn't draft THAT GUY,heza spoiled brat.

More high draft picks for years to come would be fine with me!

And I honestly think we already won the RG3 trade. I have a feeling the Redskins are going to get sick of him and his mouth and he'll be gone sooner rather than later.

 

[LesBaker]

I think everyone knew it was going to be a growing year to some extent but expected a playoff run late as they gelled. But to your question.

The OLine talent and play has improved considerably. I have no problem with Long, Barksdale, or Wells for the most part. If Saffold stays healthy his play is way above average. We have a little depth which we never had. I believe the running game talent has improved with Stacy, Richardson and Cunningham and their play will only get better next year. The TEs are much better and have potential and experience. The receivers have more talent but the production is not up to snuff and they are young and inexperienced. This offense still has plenty of the pieces in place. Sam has to work with what he's got. We can't go out and get a cast of all pros. It don't work that way.

As far as I'm concerned, I said last year 'one more year with Sam.' He gets injured early so it's still one more year.

Well, if next year is not a good year, then you have to look at either the GM, head coach, OC, QB or some combination. It will be Sam's 5th year. How much longer will they try to go with him? I think his leash is only as long as next year. Does Fisher fall on his sword over Bradford? I doubt it.

Excellent post and it sums up how many feel.

 

[LesBaker]

I think it would be delicious if we get a top five pick from Washington this year decide to trade it and someone picks a Q-back who CLEARLY outshines RGIII and we can then dispense with the dumb fucks who think WE lost that trade.I rate the chances of that as being pretty good in view of the players who will be available and the current state of disfunction in the Redskin organization. MAN AM I GLAD we didn't draft THAT GUY,heza spoiled brat.

God dammit that would be awesome and if it happens we all need to join Redskins message boards and rub that shit in for years lol.