Wasting Talent and Choices

[fearsomefour]

We all sell out for money.
What makes a case like Gordon's interesting is he has talent most can't relate to and opportunity most never will. But he makes the same stupid, self sabotaging decisions many make in their own lives.
He may be a dumb guy. He may not give an F about the money or status. He may be addicted (weed like most things that change perception/feelings/emotion can be addictive. Not for most but I have seen it first hand) to weed or maybe more. He may be emotionally messed up to the point it is self sabotage. It could be a mix of all of them.
I don't think it's as simple as he loves weed.
Would I quit whatever for a year? Depends. I have quit things before when I was hooked. I have lost 60+ lbs to gain it back ect. The hardest thing is self sabotage. That tends to be based in the rabbit hole between ones ears. Deep seated emotional/mental triggers or issues can be tougher to deal with. I think Gordon probably has some level of mental illness going on. Pure speculation of course. I'm pulling for him as a person.
Anyway, not speaking? That would be tough. Not posting? Impossible.

 

[Zodi]

Again, I had the same choice as these athletes: use pot and be at risk to face dishonor (which I think is worse) through a less than honorable discharge that would follow you all of your life.

You had the same choice, but see, this is the big difference: these guys are "the man" and have been their entire life. Nobody has told them no, so they probably don't even think about things like consequences for their actions. Of course I'm speaking in general, but you get the point. It's like in that Plaxico thread; New York City might be the most difficult place in this country to obtain a handgun legally, but he thought be was above the rules because he's always been the man, and played in the NFL. He thought he was untouchable.

 

[Ramlock]

[QUOTE="LoyalRam, post: 900977, member


So if you were an athlete and had been asked to not smoke weed (with the added emphasis being that it's still illegal under federal law) for the length of an NFL career for millions, would you do it? If both behaviors are inane (talking and weed usage), but you gain big money for not doing it as a condition of employment, would you?[/QUOTE]

I did

I was on contract with a company that offered me employment, a great job.

I knew that they did hair testing.

I was able to delay the transition for 7 months, stopped smoking, passed the test and took the position.

It was well worth it.

I only smoke a bit now and then but I'm in the clear now.

 

[bnw]

In considering Josh Gordon and his getting busted for marijuana use, it has always seemed crazy to me that an athlete is given such a golden opportunity to become a millionaire before age 30 and they choose to risk it for weed. It's here where those that see nothing wrong with marijuana say something like "marijuana is a victimless crime and it's legal in some states...the NFL cares more about marijuana use than beating his wife." So from these comments, I guess they are saying that players that smoke weed are protesting an inane rule/law....which seems crazy to me, since they only have to do it for about 3 years (average length of an NFL career).

Let me ask you....this is a an old Twilight Zone episode which was interesting to me, IF a millionaire offered you one-million dollars to not speak a word for a year, would you do it? (That was the premise of that episode)
Hell, I would...
So if you were an athlete and had been asked to not smoke weed (with the added emphasis being that it's still illegal under federal law) for the length of an NFL career for millions, would you do it? If both behaviors are inane (talking and weed usage), but you gain big money for not doing it as a condition of employment, would you?

I get what you're saying but the reality is the great majority of 3 year NFL players never get close to sniffing anything anywhere near $1 million. Still good money though and a wasted opportunity to fund some other endeavor after football. The bottom line is you can be damn stupid and still play in the NFL.

 

[ReddingRam]

Fact of the matter is ... your employer says you can't. (As does my employer) and if you so choose to ignore that and you get fired ... well the burden is on you as an individual. you made the choice. Employers still have the right to deny use and test for it. that is the bottom line. Like myself ... my employer chooses to deny employment to those who test positive for impairing substances. So .. .I can still do it if "I choose to" ... but if i get tested and fired/suspended .. .well that burden is on me. i know the rules ahead of time.

I don't necessarily agree with the whole thing for every particular reasons.... there are jobs that you definitely don't want people who could be "high" or "impaired" working at that job (like mine) ,but the fact that the employer has the right under federal guidelines to deny it is just a plain and simple fact. So guys who continue to use and even after getting caught 1..2 times .. and still do it.... well then, they choose to get high over doing that particular career. I don't feel sorry for them at all. It's called growing up and prioritizing things in your life.

 

[Loyal]

You had the same choice, but see, this is the big difference: these guys are "the man" and have been their entire life. Nobody has told them no, so they probably don't even think about things like consequences for their actions. Of course I'm speaking in general, but you get the point. It's like in that Plaxico thread; New York City might be the most difficult place in this country to obtain a handgun legally, but he thought be was above the rules because he's always been the man, and played in the NFL. He thought he was untouchable.

What is the difference with this golden athlete argument and the argument by rich kids that did crime because they were spoiled in life and didn't know right from wrong? Sorry man, I think both arguments are BS.

 

[Mackeyser]

Should people follow established rules? Yes.

Does it get more difficult when the rules, system, process is incoherent? Yes.

Just look at our offense last year. It was so incoherent that guys who as rookies played pretty well regressed badly.

Moreover, there is both scientific and anecdotal evidence, ESPECIALLY in the pro football community that cannibis helps recover from concussions and repetitive brain impacts (like what lineman endure), so when the medical community is slinging pain relievers that not only don't help, but can actually be more injurious as well as addictive, what is a player to do?

Follow the rules? Sure, except the rules output the wrong answer. It's not even a question. We'd know the extent of how wrong except we have idiots who say things like "good people don't use marijuana" /facepalm

Which opiate restores appetite to cancer patients? Which opiate aids people in coping with severe anxiety? Which opiates helps the brain heal after concussion, repetive or severe trauma?

Oh, right... NONE.

So, yes, follow the rules. I get that. I also get that people in every walk of life with every education level struggle with incoherence.

It's not helped by the NFL having the equivalent of Michael Eisner at the helm, soulless corporate hack...

 

[Loyal]

Should people follow established rules? Yes.

Does it get more difficult when the rules, system, process is incoherent? Yes.

Just look at our offense last year. It was so incoherent that guys who as rookies played pretty well regressed badly.

Moreover, there is both scientific and anecdotal evidence, ESPECIALLY in the pro football community that cannibis helps recover from concussions and repetitive brain impacts (like what lineman endure), so when the medical community is slinging pain relievers that not only don't help, but can actually be more injurious as well as addictive, what is a player to do?

Follow the rules? Sure, except the rules output the wrong answer. It's not even a question. We'd know the extent of how wrong except we have idiots who say things like "good people don't use marijuana" /facepalm

Which opiate restores appetite to cancer patients? Which opiate aids people in coping with severe anxiety? Which opiates helps the brain heal after concussion, repetive or severe trauma?

Oh, right... NONE.

So, yes, follow the rules. I get that. I also get that people in every walk of life with every education level struggle with incoherence.

It's not helped by the NFL having the equivalent of Michael Eisner at the helm, soulless corporate hack...

Ok, if the idea is to make incoherence, coherent, and you must be apart of an organization that is this way, then you first follow the rules until they are changed. If you joined, knowing the rules, it's not an excuse to say "I broke the rules because they don't make sense." If you take the NFL money, then you agree with the conditions, as is. Teams that draft you/acquire your services risk money and player capital trusting that you can be an adult and help the team. Teammates also rely on you, because they need you to help them succeed. Doing otherwise is at the very least, selfish, imo.

 

[Zodi]

What is the difference with this golden athlete argument and the argument by rich kids that did crime because they were spoiled in life and didn't know right from wrong? Sorry man, I think both arguments are BS.

Oh, I'm not defending their actions one bit, but rather just trying to rationalize their mindset.

 

[Mackeyser]

Ok, if the idea is to make incoherence, coherent, and you must be apart of an organization that is this way, then you first follow the rules until they are changed. If you joined, knowing the rules, it's not an excuse to say "I broke the rules because they don't make sense." If you take the NFL money, then you agree with the conditions, as is. Teams that draft you/acquire your services risk money and player capital trusting that you can be an adult and help the team. Teammates also rely on you, because they need you to help them succeed. Doing otherwise is at the very least, selfish, imo.

I don't disagree with any of that.

I disagree with the demonization of those who struggle with reconciling the incoherence. Just because some folks can say, "welp, the system is broke, but rulez iz rulez so even tho the rulez mess me over, don't matter cuz rulez iz rulez", doesn't mean everyone can.

I'm not saying that players don't need to follow the rules, broken as they are.

I'm just saying that some rules are harder to follow than others for reasons that aren't always so cut and dried.

This is personal for me and I try not to project my experiences onto these issues and I'm not always successful.

The VA rules are or were that if you refuse to obey the doc, it's considered "refusing treatment". Well, my neurologist, the head of neurology for the VA hospital in LA, wanted me to go to the pain clinic and take opiates for pain management. I outright refused. The rules said I HAD to follow his diagnosis and take the prescriptions unless I had a dissenting second opinion. But I couldn't follow those rules. I have addiction in my family including being a gambling addict myself and I wasn't willing to risk losing everything like so many of my brother and sister vets already had. I told the doc and he stood by his diagnosis. When I further refused, he threatened to take my benefits...directly. Whether he was too busy or what I don't know, but he never did. I have managed the pain raw since 1992. Fast forward 20+ years and my current team including two primary care docs and my neurologist were impressed by my stand and fully support me.

See, that crap back then was wrong and it just took time for the incoherence to resolve. Had the doc pursued it, I would have been faced with "support my family and almost certainly have to fight opiate addiction" or stay clean and have no means of supporting my family. At the time, I was having more than 50 absence seizures a day, so working was out of the question.

20 years from now there will be THC, THCV, CBD and other compounds singularly and in combination that will be embraced by the very organizations that are eschewing them now. And honestly, if the Commish cared more about the health of the players than "the brand", they'd be funding CBD and other studies rather than demonizing it in favor of a known harmful substance.

 

[WestCoastRam]

The definition of addiction is compulsive behavior in the face of ever increasing negative consequences... just saying.

 

[CGI_Ram]

opcorn:

 

[LACHAMP46]

Addiction is a bitch.....these dudes may be considered men, but most think and behave like children. And kids make mistakes.

Let me ask you....this is a an old Twilight Zone episode which was interesting to me, IF a millionaire offered you one-million dollars to not speak a word for a year, would you do it? (That was the premise of that episode)
Hell, I would...

You'd try....

He may be addicted

The definition of addiction is compulsive behavior in the face of ever increasing negative consequences... just saying.

See my original comment OP....This is Josh Gordon in a nutshell.

And I have a real problem with people judging guys that grow up in an environment that actively pushes illegal drugs on it's youth...in the form of drug saturated neighborhoods. and few opportunities/outlets for any other activities. It's a given that more will be drawn into drug use....

 

[Loyal]

We all come from diverse backgrounds and experiences, and compassion is a good thing. For me, the one essential thing is freedom. I support your right to choose how you live your life, even though I may not have made the same choice. The second part of freedom of choice, is the consequences of that choice, and that can be one hard motherfukker. Some have tendencies toward addiction and others have medical issues. Some have horrible life experiences and relations. I have compassion about many of these conditions and situations, but the hard truth about employment is that the employer isn't a social service agency.

In the NFL, there are about 224 guys coming to take your job every year. There are probably another 1000 undrafted swingingdicks with less talent that want to do the same. Greater talent gives you more chances, which isn't fair, but it is what it is. Talent separates some from the herd. Those of equal talent are separated further by skill, desire, and just plain love to play the game. Injuries separate others from the group. Competition is fierce for the privilege to play a kid's game for millions of dollars (possibly).

The other separator is the ability to follow the rules/law. Shoot yourself in the foot in a state that declares your gun to be illegal, you lose your job (and go to jail). Rules in the NFL about drug use are part of the SHIELD. It's part of the image the NFL wants to portray that the NFL is a cut above. Now in various ways they don't live up to that, but that is the lofty goal.

Josh Gordon is that talented guy that was highly valued by all 32 teams, but by the Browns most of all. He made his choices and suffered the consequences. An employer can personally care about a person's struggles, but after a series of warnings and penalties, he has to move on. Some employers have more leniency than others, especially for the most talented. Yet, even talent, after a while, doesn't matter if the employer can't utilize it, especially with new talent coming every year in waves...

So smoke that dope Josh Gordon and enjoy it..You have many other choices in life coming, and coming hard.