Warner Vs Bradford

[RamzFanz]

I think the OP is more just offering a scenario wherein both of them switched places. Kurt with the post 2009 Rams, and Bradford with the 1999 Rams. I've seen Kurt look like garbage in bad surroundings (Giants and AZ), and I've seen Bradford look great when he had a legit target to throw to. It's an interesting thing to ponder, but certainly not an opportunity to compare the two directly.

THIS season, which would be a season earlier than Warner's take over of the Rams, on the 1999 team, Bradford would look like a superstar. With Faulk there having his back?!

People forget that Faulk was a very intelligent and knowledgeable football player. He often flagged Warner as to what the D was doing. Hell, he often flagged Martz as to what was going on.

Faulk would be in the running for best all around football player of all time.

Now add the Mike Martz originality and the surrounding cast.

To me, the most interesting part of the question is what could Warner do this season with this team. My answer is:

Ground and pound, ball control, massive D, with the threat of going long on every play, same as Bradford.

 

[ramsince62]

If Bradford's game was predicated on timing patterns to guys who ran routes flawlessly (Holt, Bruce, Hakim, Proehl) and had a dumpoff option in Marshall Faulk, then I don't see why he couldn't have been as successful. The whole idea of that GSOT offense was identifying the receiver who was about to draw single coverage, and throw to that guy. Those were Warner's words. The only thing I think that could have held Bradford back in that offense would be reading the defense as well as Warner did, and maybe hitting sideline patterns as effectively as Warner did. Both QBs have a very quick release, neither are mobile, and both are very accurate.

The only thing I would add is that (so far at least) Warner seems to deliver (lead) the receiver more consistently, which sets up more opportunities for yards after the catch. Not that Bradford doesn't deliver a nice ball and with accuracy. Naturally, it didn't hurt to have the receivers he did....then again there's always that basket shot to Proehl in the corner of the EZ!

 

[-X-]

The only thing I would add is that (so far at least) Warner seems to deliver (lead) the receiver more consistently, which sets up more opportunities for yards after the catch. Not that Bradford doesn't deliver a nice ball and with accuracy. Naturally, it didn't hurt to have the receivers he did....then again there's always that basket shot to Proehl in the corner of the EZ!

Could be. I'm not going to nit-pick over which QB had the better touch-pass or deep ball. I just think that the supporting cast hypothetical (as presented by the OP) is a pretty interesting one. There's an ENORMOUS difference between that 99 team and the, say, 2011 team. The size of a chasm. Huge difference.

 

[ChrisW]

Warner was an Arena Football Champion with the unique skills that are uniquely Arena. Fast decisions, fast passing. Perfect for Martz's scheme.

Dude was so freaking accurate at that stage in his career.

Bradford may get to his level some day, but no, Bradford wouldn't have been that successful at this point IMHO.

If the Rams had of had Bradford as a backup and given Warner time to heal... hmmmm. Bulger was good too though and the morons crushed his career.

Sam played the fast paced west coast offense at OU. I think he would have fared EXTREMELY well under Martz's tutelage. Remember those awesome numbers he put up before his shoulder injury.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Not fair at all, but no Sam wouldn't be as good. Warner was much more of a risk taker, too. Who knows what Sam coulda done with with Bruce, Holt, and Faulk. He has never had anything near that calibre of offense.

I tell you what, though, Bradford threw a lot tighter spiral. That counts for something. Bradford would have shrewded the league, though.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

Could be. I'm not going to nit-pick over which QB had the better touch-pass or deep ball. I just think that the supporting cast hypothetical (as presented by the OP) is a pretty interesting one. There's an ENORMOUS difference between that 99 team and the, say, 2011 team. The size of a chasm. Huge difference.

Including the QB.

 

[jap]

If Sam had Mad Mike in his ear, insisting that he takes chances downfield, wouldn't he approach, equal, or possibly surpass Kurt's accuracy? Sam is very accurate; however, he has been coached in the pros to be conservative. Mike would have recognized that accuracy and have Sam throwing into tight windows if necessary to fulfill his [Mike's] fast & furious dreams.

 

[So Ram]

Wonder how Tony Banks,or Steve Bono would have done ? My memory of Ram players are not all that good.I do know Kurt Warner was a backup to both of them though.
London Fletcher was a back up as well.I love watching players develope.Had early wager on Rams first year with Trent Green at home & Super Bowl future.Made the decision to trust Warner because he he showed he could manage the offense.
Sam Bradford believes in himself,and doesn't like to loss.I like the fact he is a student of the game .He has worked hard in getting stronger,and will be in a good position to win this year.

 

[RFIP]

Great discussion.

I will simply say this; Kurt would have been better than Sam THEN and WORSE than Sam in 2010.

Warner was a gambler of a QB who (people forget) accounted for a TON of turn overs both ints and fumbles, and he depended on his wr's being where they were supposed to be AND able to catch and run with the ball.

Sam understood early on who can catch and who can't.

Listen I LOVE Kurt Warner, have both his books and he will always be my #1 Ram QB BUT Kurt playing with the receivers Sam has been saddled with would have been an unmitigated disaster.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Warner needed, to be a bagger, the arena league, NFL Europe to become who he became....He took a lot of punishment after teams tried to find his weakness with pressure. Perfect storm is correct. He withstood more punishment than most to get those long developing routes time to get the wrs open. He wasn't Kurt Warner....until all the adversity, and just wanted to make it...Sam's going through it right now...and may have emerged better for it. 2014 will tell the tale.

A lot of people forget Kurt Warner played 3 seasons in the Arena league, plus 1 season in NFL Europe.

By today's standards; he was a bust out of college.

But, we know what happened next!

 

[ReddingRam]

Two totally different situations, schemes, team and time. There is no way to know for sure how either would have fared in the other's situation.

 

[Yamahopper]

If Sam had Mad Mike in his ear, insisting that he takes chances downfield, wouldn't he approach, equal, or possibly surpass Kurt's accuracy? Sam is very accurate; however, he has been coached in the pros to be conservative. Mike would have recognized that accuracy and have Sam throwing into tight windows if necessary to fulfill his [Mike's] fast & furious dreams.

I was about to say much the same.

 

[den-the-coach]

First off we need Bradford to stay healthy and when Warner signed with the Rams back in 1998 they were very, very bad and Warner's first offensive coordinator was Jerry Rhome who backed up Roman Gabriel in 1971 and was as popular back then (1998) as current Ram Offensive Coordinator Brian Schottenheimer.

Clearly Warner faced far more adversity, however, both are very humble men and I still have high hopes for Bradford, but there is only one QB jersey I have ever donned and that's the only QB that have led my beloved Rams to a Super Bowl victory Kurtis Eugene Warner! I hope Bradford can do the same, but let's see if he can stay healthy and win some football games.

Also one other thing that goes unnoticed back in 1999 was not only the addition of Mike Martz as OC, but also Al Saunders was brought in as WR coach to replace an aging Dick Coury. Those two moves was a major difference and Saunders revitalized Bruce's career.

 

[-X-]

Including the QB.

I'm not criticizing you or anything, but just letting you know, that by now, I know how you feel about the QB. And again, the OP was asking about supporting casts. That's why he asked what people thought would happen if Warner and Bradford switched places in time. And I know it can't be answered factually. It's just a discussion.

 

[blue4]

Like a certain part of the anatomy, everyone has an opinion. Mine is this, Bradford would not have led the Rams to a Super Bowl..Not slamming the kid, he just doesn't have the intangibles Kurt did. Kurt was a freakin leader to the nth degree. Warner is probably a first ballot HOFer. I think Bradford would have led the Rams to the playoffs back then....just as I think Warner might have elevated the play of the team to a possible Wild Card. No way Kurt loses that Seahawk game last year (think Bradford would have won it too). I also think Kurt was tougher than Bradford..Yeah Kurt got hurt, but that was after Martz kept doing 4 Wr sets all of the time. Dude got hit early and often releasing the ball , and stood in there courageously....

Like I said, it's not really fair to compare them.

No way anyone but Clemens loses that Seattle game. Shaun Hill would have won it. LOL

It's true that it isn't fair to compare the two. But Kurt really wasn't the main leader of that team. I think it's telling that Faulk was the team MVP. Don't view this a slam on Kurt, it's just as time goes on people seem to forget how important those other players were to our success. People start to talk about Bradford, or whoever at QB, and the things that Faulk and Bruce and the rest did seems to fade away and all you hear is Kurt.

It's my opinion that the QB position in St. Louis has been way above what other teams have had when you view Warner, Bulger, and Bradford as a group over 14 years. Again, don't think I'm down on Kurt. Normally, I think the notion that a player elevates the talent of the surrounding players is bullshit, but the Warner led Cardinals was an exception. I don't think Bradford or Bulger would have went to the bowl with the Cardinals.

 

[blue4]

First off we need Bradford to stay healthy and when Warner signed with the Rams back in 1998 they were very, very bad and Warner's first offensive coordinator was Jerry Rhome who backed up Roman Gabriel in 1971 and was as popular back then (1998) as current Ram Offensive Coordinator Brian Schottenheimer.

Clearly Warner faced far more adversity, however, both are very humble men and I still have high hopes for Bradford, but there is only one QB jersey I have ever donned and that's the only QB that have led my beloved Rams to a Super Bowl victory Kurtis Eugene Warner! I hope Bradford can do the same, but let's see if he can stay healthy and win some football games.

Also one other thing that goes unnoticed back in 1999 was not only the addition of Mike Martz as OC, but also Al Saunders was brought in as WR coach to replace an aging Dick Coury. Those two moves was a major difference and Saunders revitalized Bruce's career.

I have high hopes for him, too. I've always felt a little sympathy (not much the man's filthy rich!) for him. Younger than most QB's coming out, going to a truly horrific franchise, being named the starter and franchise savior before ever meeting your teammates. He's handled that like a true professional. He's taken a pounding on the field and in the press/talk shows. I think he's tougher than people give him credit for.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

I'm not criticizing you or anything, but just letting you know, that by now, I know how you feel about the QB. And again, the OP was asking about supporting casts. That's why he asked what people thought would happen if Warner and Bradford switched places in time. And I know it can't be answered factually. It's just a discussion.

This is a discussion forum so opinion is what it is all about. Hypothetical situations make for interesting debate.

My opinion about Kurt is based what Kurt did on the field. He was amazingly accurate on a consistent basis, and he would push the ball down the field. Kurt's receivers were amazing no doubt, but think about how many times they caught the ball perfectly in stride - they didn't have to battle for the ball. Sam has not demonstrated consistent accuracy anywhere near to what Kurt could do. Both stats and film will backup that observation.

It seems en vogue on this board to coronate Sam based upon how great he is going to be this fall. I say let's wait and see. He is coming off a serious knee injury. I want to see how his confidence holds up after the first time he gets hit in the legs. In my opinion, it is not a given that Sam will play well this year. He is an unknown.

 

[-X-]

This is a discussion forum so opinion is what it is all about. Hypothetical situations make for interesting debate.

My opinion about Kurt is based what Kurt did on the field. He was amazingly accurate on a consistent basis, and he would push the ball down the field. Kurt's receivers were amazing no doubt, but think about how many times they caught the ball perfectly in stride - they didn't have to battle for the ball. Sam has not demonstrated consistent accuracy anywhere near to what Kurt could do. Both stats and film will backup that observation.

It seems en vogue on this board to coronate Sam based upon how great he is going to be this fall. I say let's wait and see. He is coming off a serious knee injury. I want to see how his confidence holds up after the first time he gets hit in the legs. In my opinion, it is not a given that Sam will play well this year. He is an unknown.

It's not about Kurt vs Bradford though. That's what I'm trying to get across here (and don't comment on how an entire board thinks, please). It's how they would do in opposite situations. Kurt is 10X the QB Bradford is, but some of that is by virtue of what he had to work with, and that weak schedule we had in 99. Did you happen to see Kurt's first few years in Arizona? Did he forget how to lead receivers? Or is it kinda important to have some quality players around you in order to maximize your own skill set? Here's 2005-2007, so you tell me what the problem was:

 

[LesBaker]

Rams with Warner in 2010 win the SB.

I think you guys who are saying Warner would get hurt behind the OL are forgetting that the OL in AZ was worse than anything the Rams had. He got routinely smashed but still stood in and delivered.

 

[-X-]

Rams with Warner in 2010 win the SB.

I think you guys who are saying Warner would get hurt behind the OL are forgetting that the OL in AZ was worse than anything the Rams had. He got routinely smashed but still stood in and delivered.

And he played pretty bad behind that line in AZ (05-08). So why would he play better with the Rams O-line in 2010 (or 2011) without a Fitzgerald or Boldin?
Let alone win a Super Bowl with Shurmur as the coordinator? :huh: