LesBaker
Mr. Savant
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- Les
Tom Brady bragged to former Jets assistant that Pats had Jets playbook
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LazyWinker
Pro Bowler
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- Jun 19, 2014
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- Paul
I want to make sure I've got this straight. Pettine recalled something he heard from a friend, I believe that's called hearsay, and then used that information in attempt to look better/smarter than Rex Ryan. Is that right? I'm just struggling to see how this is a big deal.
I dislike the Patriots as much as the next man. It was worth the Patriots going undefeated in 2007 just to get beaten in the Superbowl by the Giants (that was about as good as a Rams Superbowl to me just watching the Patriots fall to the Giants). I just can't find anything to really fault the Patriots. Lots of teams pluck a guy off a teams practice squad or claim a guy off waivers for game planning purposes, I just don't see having a teams playbook being a huge advantage. It's not like there is going to be anything in that playbook the Patriots haven't seen. I assume in addition to playing the Jets each year they also watch and study Jets game film. I could be wrong though. To me, Pettine is just making something out of nothing.
I dislike the Patriots as much as the next man. It was worth the Patriots going undefeated in 2007 just to get beaten in the Superbowl by the Giants (that was about as good as a Rams Superbowl to me just watching the Patriots fall to the Giants). I just can't find anything to really fault the Patriots. Lots of teams pluck a guy off a teams practice squad or claim a guy off waivers for game planning purposes, I just don't see having a teams playbook being a huge advantage. It's not like there is going to be anything in that playbook the Patriots haven't seen. I assume in addition to playing the Jets each year they also watch and study Jets game film. I could be wrong though. To me, Pettine is just making something out of nothing.
PowayRamFan
Hall of Fame
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- Aug 15, 2011
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- 2,359
IDK, the Patriots have that genius "coach" guy at their disposal, the guy with the photographic memory. Ernie Adams could probably do something with this info, probably already has....
RamsAndEwe
Rookie
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Tis easier to get forgiven than get permission. I hate the Patriots!
Thordaddy
Binding you with ancient logic
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- Rich
It's not unusual for teams to have other teams playbooks ,I've heard coaches say they had everyones playbook eventually .
Taping a walk through is however a whole different animal , if they'd had Martz's whole playbook it would have only confused them.
Taping a walk through is however a whole different animal , if they'd had Martz's whole playbook it would have only confused them.
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- Joined
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Wow, like minds think alike....
Boston Ram
Hall of Fame
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Seems to me this happens all the time. How many times do you see a team cut a player then a division rival signs the guy. Or even signs a guy for a week if there playing a certain team, then he is cut 2 weeks later. I don't think having a playbook gives you much advantage since you have tape of every game but these coaches look for any and all advantages they can find.
Pancake
Hall of Fame
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- Ernie
I don't think there are any unknown secret plays anyway. Everybody has a version of the same play already they just use different terminology.
Knowing when those plays get called because a team video taped the exact sequence is a whole other thing. That is absolutely an advantage.
The Patriots are dirty club and so is Goodell IMO. What they did was on par with the black sox scandal and all eight of those guys were banned from baseball. Goodell not only barely slapped the Patriots on the wrist but he covered it up and destroyed the tapes.
Knowing when those plays get called because a team video taped the exact sequence is a whole other thing. That is absolutely an advantage.
The Patriots are dirty club and so is Goodell IMO. What they did was on par with the black sox scandal and all eight of those guys were banned from baseball. Goodell not only barely slapped the Patriots on the wrist but he covered it up and destroyed the tapes.
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- Peter
Pettine explains the value of having an opponent’s playbook
Posted by Mike Florio on June 20, 2014
The bulk of a recent profile of Browns coach Mike Pettine largely was ignored due to the presence of quotes suggesting that the Patriots somehow misappropriated one or more copies of the Jets’ playbook when Pettine served as the defensive coordinator in New York. It wasn’t surprising, especially with one of the money quotes being isolated and expanded on the page.
“We know in places like New England, it’s only a matter of time that they somehow mysteriously end up with our playbook.”
Pettine then shared the story of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady bragging at Wes Welker’s wedding about New England having the defensive playbook.
“It didn’t shock me because [coach] Rex [Ryan] would give them out like candy anyway,” Pettine told Greg Bedard of TheMMQB.com. “He gave one out to [Alabama coach Nick] Saban and I was like, ‘Don’t you know Saban and Bill [Belichick] are pretty good friends? I have a feeling it’s going to end up in New England.’”
In hindsight, Pettine and Bedard perhaps should have had a feeling that the anecdote would overtake the story, because it did. On Friday afternoon, Pettine shared with PFT details about what it means — and what it doesn’t mean — to have another team’s playbook.
“Most playbooks are very broad,” Pettine said via phone from Hawaii, where he is vacationing. “We’ll have 80 [defensive formations] in a playbook, 30 in a game plan. We’ll add six or seven new ones for a given game.”
Pettine said the defensive playbook shows core concepts. Without having access either to the game plan or to notes players take during meetings, the playbook has far less value.
But Pettine doesn’t claim that having an opponent’s playbook has no value.
“It’s a credit that [the Patriots] have been able to get that information,” Pettine said. “I didn’t mean to imply it was gathered illegally. . . . To me, it’s a sign of a smart team. We’re not actively pursuing playbooks, but when they fall in your laps, you’ll study it.”
Pettine emphasized that he wasn’t accusing the Patriots of stealing the playbook or any other wrongdoing, and he acknowledged that playbooks routinely end up on the Internet. Indeed, a reader sent PFT a copy of the Jets’ defensive playbook on Thursday after the story first emerged. While talking to Pettine, I rattled off terms from it, like Titan Package, Under Wasp Sting, and Under Bee Sting.
“That’s it,” Pettine said.
Pettine said he shared the Brady story with Bedard to illustrate the importance of keeping playbooks vague. Coaches assume that, somehow, a playbook will end up in the wrong hands. Though it will never provide the difference between winning and losing, if it can help even a little coaches want to study it.
“We’re all in the business of gathering information,” Pettine explained. “If I can get someone’s blueprint for how they build their offense or defense, of course I’m going to look at it.”
Usually, the playbooks migrate from team to team when coaches leave for other jobs. Far more valuable than a playbook, however, would be a past game plan used against a specific team, assuming the systems and personnel haven’t changed dramatically.
So while it can’t hurt to have a team’s playbook, it won’t help all that much.
“It’s only the skeleton,” Pettine said. “Not the meat on the bones.”
Posted by Mike Florio on June 20, 2014
The bulk of a recent profile of Browns coach Mike Pettine largely was ignored due to the presence of quotes suggesting that the Patriots somehow misappropriated one or more copies of the Jets’ playbook when Pettine served as the defensive coordinator in New York. It wasn’t surprising, especially with one of the money quotes being isolated and expanded on the page.
“We know in places like New England, it’s only a matter of time that they somehow mysteriously end up with our playbook.”
Pettine then shared the story of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady bragging at Wes Welker’s wedding about New England having the defensive playbook.
“It didn’t shock me because [coach] Rex [Ryan] would give them out like candy anyway,” Pettine told Greg Bedard of TheMMQB.com. “He gave one out to [Alabama coach Nick] Saban and I was like, ‘Don’t you know Saban and Bill [Belichick] are pretty good friends? I have a feeling it’s going to end up in New England.’”
In hindsight, Pettine and Bedard perhaps should have had a feeling that the anecdote would overtake the story, because it did. On Friday afternoon, Pettine shared with PFT details about what it means — and what it doesn’t mean — to have another team’s playbook.
“Most playbooks are very broad,” Pettine said via phone from Hawaii, where he is vacationing. “We’ll have 80 [defensive formations] in a playbook, 30 in a game plan. We’ll add six or seven new ones for a given game.”
Pettine said the defensive playbook shows core concepts. Without having access either to the game plan or to notes players take during meetings, the playbook has far less value.
But Pettine doesn’t claim that having an opponent’s playbook has no value.
“It’s a credit that [the Patriots] have been able to get that information,” Pettine said. “I didn’t mean to imply it was gathered illegally. . . . To me, it’s a sign of a smart team. We’re not actively pursuing playbooks, but when they fall in your laps, you’ll study it.”
Pettine emphasized that he wasn’t accusing the Patriots of stealing the playbook or any other wrongdoing, and he acknowledged that playbooks routinely end up on the Internet. Indeed, a reader sent PFT a copy of the Jets’ defensive playbook on Thursday after the story first emerged. While talking to Pettine, I rattled off terms from it, like Titan Package, Under Wasp Sting, and Under Bee Sting.
“That’s it,” Pettine said.
Pettine said he shared the Brady story with Bedard to illustrate the importance of keeping playbooks vague. Coaches assume that, somehow, a playbook will end up in the wrong hands. Though it will never provide the difference between winning and losing, if it can help even a little coaches want to study it.
“We’re all in the business of gathering information,” Pettine explained. “If I can get someone’s blueprint for how they build their offense or defense, of course I’m going to look at it.”
Usually, the playbooks migrate from team to team when coaches leave for other jobs. Far more valuable than a playbook, however, would be a past game plan used against a specific team, assuming the systems and personnel haven’t changed dramatically.
So while it can’t hurt to have a team’s playbook, it won’t help all that much.
“It’s only the skeleton,” Pettine said. “Not the meat on the bones.”
The Rammer
ESPN Draft Guru
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- Rick
I'd love to hear what Faulk would say. Probably why he wasn't on camera talking aobut it because they would have had to edit his clip!
HE WITH HORNS
Hall of Fame
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It would help them if they also knew the play calls themselves, by listening in to the radio signals. I'm sure a LOT of that goes on in the NFL, especially for the home teams.