The "whine about the REFS" thread, Tampa v Rams

[junkman]

If you whine about the REFS after a LOSS, people will tell you that you only whine about the REFS because your team lost. Not true. The REFS just suck. Every sport. Every game, every week. To their credit, they get most plays right, but some just leave you somewhere between scratching your head and throwing the TV out the window.

WTF CALL against the RAMS

Geez Louise, that roughing the passer call on Dunbar? Rams up by 2, the Bucs have a 3rd and 5 with 8:20 left in the forth, Gregg Williams brings 5 players after McCown forcing an incomplete pass with the pressure (this was the one where Herron almost caught it, but dropped it). The replays were focused on whether or not the pass was complete or not, but that missed the more interesting piece, a roughing the passer call against Dunbar.

We'll ignore (for now) the fact that Dunbar was blatantly held by Rainey (#43) on the pass rush, sticking his left hand WAAAAAY out and grabbing on to Dunbar on his was to the QB. No, we'll just focus on the "roughing the psaser" call itself.

Definition:

1. Roughing the Passer. A defender continues an effort to tackle or "hit" a passer after the passer has already thrown a pass. A defender is allowed to take one step after the ball is thrown; a defender is penalized if he hits the passer having taken two or more steps after the ball leaves the passer's hand.

I see. Sooo... one step is allowed. But two or more steps? Not allowed. Hmm... So wait, if McCown is still releasing the ball as he is hit, how many steps does that count as?

This terrible call by the REFS extended the Bucs drive on what should have been a 3 and out, giving them a chance to make a go-ahead field goal.

WHERE'S THE CALL??

First drive of the 3rd quarter, the Rams offense is really moving, having gone 37 yards in 5 plays. Zac Stacey takes a run up the middle but fumbles on what looks like very little contact. So what happened?

On the fumble, the Bucs Dane Fletcher blindly (and blatantly) leg whips Stacy in both the facemask and his hand causing the fumble. Not sure where this is in the rule book, but I'm pretty sure this is illegal, right?? The still photo doesn't quite do this justice. Watch the live action and see how Fletcher kicks his leg back at Stacy as he goes by.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014091409/2014/REG2/rams@buccaneers#tab=videos&menu=gameinfo|contentId:0ap3000000394720

Not sure where the REFS were on the play. Surely someone would actually be watching the ball carrier. I mean, if they caught Jake Long on the phantom leg whip last year against Carolina (long TD pass to Austin called back), surely someone would be watching the guy carrying the football, and notice that THE LEG WHIP ACTUALLY CAUSED THE FUMBLE?!?

Geez Louise.

~~~~

My animosity towards refs is a little worse than normal today. I also watched FIBA USA v Serbia last night. OMG, as bad as NFL and NBA refs are, FIBA refs very well might be the worst in the world. USA won 129-92, so again, I'm not complaining about REFS even though we won.

 

[Robocop]

at this point I truly believe they are being told to favor certain teams and players or to keep games close. so... FUCK us then

 

[RaminExile]

If you whine about the REFS after a LOSS, people will tell you that you only whine about the REFS because your team lost. Not true. The REFS just suck. Every sport. Every game, every week. To

My animosity towards refs is a little worse than normal today. I also watched FIBA USA v Serbia last night. OMG, as bad as NFL and NBA refs are, FIBA refs very well might be the worst in the world. USA won 129-92, so again, I'm not complaining about REFS even though we won.

Did you happen to see the highlights of the Seattle v SD game or the Niners game last night??

 

[Billy Baroo]

The roughing call on Dunbar was an absolute joke. The leg kick wasn't intentional so a good non-call.

 

[JackDRams]

That roughing the passer call made me furious. No way was that roughing the passer. He hit him immediately after he released the ball, hit him fairly, and that was it. Such a bs call. And the call where there was offensive pass interference and defensive holding was bs too. I know they cancelled out, but McGee didnt do shit. They had a lot of calls that were on the money, but a handful of brutal calls too.

 

[ZigZagRam]

That roughing the passer call made me furious. No way was that roughing the passer. He hit him immediately after he released the ball, hit him fairly, and that was it. Such a bs call. And the call where there was offensive pass interference and defensive holding was bs too. I know they cancelled out, but McGee didnt do crap. They had a lot of calls that were on the money, but a handful of brutal calls too.

Agree 100%. Terrible call.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Don't forget the numerous times Quinn got held. My gosh...

 

[fearsomefour]

at this point I truly believe they are being told to favor certain teams and players or to keep games close. so... freak us then

The only issue I have with this is why favor Tampa Bay? At the end of the day both Tampa and St. Louis are also ran NFL franchises. Not important enough to matter.

 

[junkman]

The leg kick wasn't intentional so a good non-call.

It's debatable at best. Fletcher kicked his leg backward PAST the vertical position, flexed backwards both at the hip and at the knee, which doesn't happen by accident. That kick would have been impressive in the MMA octagon.

I'm also not sure if the rules matter as to intent, if for no other reason that because determining intent is so difficult to do. I was grumbling about intent on the Brian Quick facemask last week, but in that case the intent was much more clear, that his hand was not GRASPED on the facemask, it was literlly five-finger extended and one finger got stuck.

 

[ZigZagRam]

Don't forget about the blatant false start by the RT Dotson (?) on McCown's TD run that wasn't called.

 

[fearsomefour]

The ONLY calls or non calls I thought were out of line Sunday was the lack of holding vs anyone blocking Quinn.
On the roughing call I think he was called for helmet to helmet as you could see McCowns head move....never got a good look at it to tell.
That is not a leg whip. A leg whip is when someone sweeps, kicks or whips their leg into the legs of an opponent. It does specify the legs. As we have seen before the refs dont care if the leg whip was accidental or not, they should but they dont. This play on Sunday was surely accidental and he was falling down, however, it is not a penalty.
I really dont like the whining about the refs. I saw many questionable calls yesterday. I dont see more questionable calls go vs. the Rams. Most of the penalties vs. the Rams are penalties. Its not the refs most of the time it is the players. NO, the NFL is not telling officials to keep our dangerously great team down. No reason to do so and no need even if they wanted to.
Get over it.
I certainly hope this excuse making is not allowed within the Rams locker room.

 

[fearsomefour]

It's debatable at best. Fletcher kicked his leg backward PAST the vertical position, flexed backwards both at the hip and at the knee, which doesn't happen by accident. That kick would have been impressive in the MMA octagon.

I'm also not sure if the rules matter as to intent, if for no other reason that because determining intent is so difficult to do. I was grumbling about intent on the Brian Quick facemask last week, but in that case the intent was much more clear, that his hand was not GRASPED on the facemask, it was literlly five-finger extended and one finger got stuck.

The rules are specific. Legwhip is a kick, whip ect. to the legs of an opponent. O line man or D lineman used to use it as a tactic that leg to injury. The rule specifies making such contact with an opponents legs.
It sucks, but, Quick was guilty of a face mask....intentional or not.

 

[DaveFan'51]

at this point I truly believe they are being told to favor certain teams and players or to keep games close. so... freak us then

You mean Like that, None TD the Sea-chickens were given!? Boy IF that had effected the out-come of the game!! The WR clearly stepped out, how do you miss that when all TD's are supposed to be reviewed!?

 

[junkman]

Don't forget the numerous times Quinn got held. My gosh...

The play right before the Dunbar roughing the passer was a perfect (and blatant) example. See screen print below. It's better to see with live action so you can see how Quinn's progress is impeded (and I haven't figured out how to do that), but Quinn has a clear path to the QB, except that the OL has BOTH ARMS WRAPPED TOTALLY AROUND HIM FROM BEHIND like a toddler trying to stop his mom from leaving him at day care.

I could take screen prints of Quinn getting held all day long. It's really the ONLY issue with the Rams worth arguing about; it happens so often that it kinda makes sense to get in the REFS ears and asking them what it'll take for them to throw the flag on that. It goes without saying that they'd make that call against the RAMS OL.

 

[junkman]

The rules are specific. Legwhip is a kick, whip ect. to the legs of an opponent. O line man or D lineman used to use it as a tactic that leg to injury. The rule specifies making such contact with an opponents legs.

The rule book I'm looking at doesn't mention only kicking people's legs. By my reading, you're not allowed to kick an opponent anywhere.

http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf
Article 8 There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be limited to:
(a) striking an opponent anywhere with the foot or any part of the leg with a whipping motion;

 

[junkman]

Did you happen to see the highlights of the Seattle v SD game or the Niners game last night??

What caught your attention? The out-of-bounds play they missed on Harvin... where the REFS didn't review it... and the league actually admitted they were wrong?

 

[JackDRams]

I certainly hope this excuse making is not allowed within the Rams locker room.

It is, even Fisher himself has called out redonk flags in his pressers. He sends them up to be reviewed. So why can't we talk about them? If you have differing opinions that's cool, but this thread is better then the hundreds of other pointless ones that last five replies and die off lol.

 

[LetsGoRams]

The roughing the passer penalty was a joke. The missed false start on Tampa's RT on McCown's TD run was a joke. Quinn held all day. I was wondering about that non-call on the leg whip. I was wondering if that could even be called tripping? I remember the Rams got called for that a couple times last year when it was unintentional, but they were still called for it. Unfortunate for Stacy too, because that was some bad luck there on that fumble.

 

[fearsomefour]

The rule book I'm looking at doesn't mention only kicking people's legs. By my reading, you're not allowed to kick an opponent anywhere.

http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf
Article 8 There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be limited to:
(a) striking an opponent anywhere with the foot or any part of the leg with a whipping motion;

I found a couple of different definitions for the rule. One stated specifically the legs (as it related to blocking and not tackling) one stated the offending player had to be on the ground. Searched through the NFL rulebook that I could find online (not a great layout) and couldnt find anything specific in there.
My understanding of that rule (just my understanding) is that it was related to making intentional contract with a players legs specifically, as opposed to tripping which is its own penalty and kicking someone which is a personal foul. Someone falling and their leg flying up and hitting someone, I dont think that falls under the rule. Although we do see O lineman called for it when the go down and their leg or foot catches someone. I dont think Ive ever seen a player on D called for legwhip.

 

[ZigZagRam]

The roughing the passer penalty was a joke. The missed false start on Tampa's RT on McCown's TD run was a joke. Quinn held all day. I was wondering about that non-call on the leg whip. I was wondering if that could even be called tripping? I remember the Rams got called for that a couple times last year when it was unintentional, but they were still called for it. Unfortunate for Stacy too, because that was some bad luck there on that fumble.

I certainly remember a much less obvious tripping call on Jake Long that negated a long TD to, I believe, Tavon Austin.