The FULL 12 minutes of that Williams audio
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Nothing was taken out of context. The condensed version eliminated a lot of your typical coachspeak, game-planning and then (surprisingly) Williams passing out money for previously earned bonuses.interference said:
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Interesting that they bleep out the names of the players who are collecting their bounties.
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X said:
Hypocritical.
Makes this look more like a witch hunt instead of a search for the truth.
Thordaddy
Binding you with ancient logic
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I've not listened to the whole thing yet ,will later today but first thanks to The Dude for having me here.
My first post ,enough about me
I consider what I've heard thus far in the shorter edited version to be completely consistent with what I think Williams was banned for in the first place.
I coach HS wrestling and if I tape a wrist ,I tape both rather than call attention to a boo boo, IOW I think most contact athletes go after known injuries, the graphic nature doesn't shock me ,I've heard variations for 50 years. The Jr. high team I played on inflicted "incidental punishment" as a matter of course, and every team I played on did the same,it's not new,surprising, shocking, but that is not to say I condone anything .
I guess some people weren't as, let's say aware in the beginning that this is how it probably sounded.
It sounds like something out of "North Dallas Forty" and that was where my head went when I first heard of the Bountygate thang.
I get the idea whether Goodell feigns shock and outrage ,his imagination should have been vivid enough to connect the dots to expect this was the way things had been.
Thanks again Dude
My first post ,enough about me
I consider what I've heard thus far in the shorter edited version to be completely consistent with what I think Williams was banned for in the first place.
I coach HS wrestling and if I tape a wrist ,I tape both rather than call attention to a boo boo, IOW I think most contact athletes go after known injuries, the graphic nature doesn't shock me ,I've heard variations for 50 years. The Jr. high team I played on inflicted "incidental punishment" as a matter of course, and every team I played on did the same,it's not new,surprising, shocking, but that is not to say I condone anything .
I guess some people weren't as, let's say aware in the beginning that this is how it probably sounded.
It sounds like something out of "North Dallas Forty" and that was where my head went when I first heard of the Bountygate thang.
I get the idea whether Goodell feigns shock and outrage ,his imagination should have been vivid enough to connect the dots to expect this was the way things had been.
Thanks again Dude
Selassie I said:
Except it's neither.
This is the guy who made the tape acting independently.
If it were the league office that released this you might have a point.
And it works like this. He has no idea which players are in the sights of the league. And Williams has admitted wrong. If he includes a player's name he might get someone in trouble, which isn';t his intention. If he broadcasts Wms then all he has done is reveal what we already knew and what Wms has already openly admitted to.
Meanwhile it doesn't pay to act as if the league and the guy who made the tape are acting in unison or in partnership. The guy who made the tape is just posting a tape he has. That has nothing to do with the league office, which chances are knew nothing about this tape till he released it.
RamFan503 said:
Which is fine cause the motive is irrelevant.
All we need to know, in terms of this discussion, is whether he acted independently. And of course we know he did. It's only a "witchhunt" if the league released it. They didn't. It's not.
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Bleeping out the names of players who were obviously participating in this "program" along with GW hides the whole truth. The entire picture is being hidden.
You cannot have the truth without full disclosure.
Witch hunt tactic 101.... the truth never comes out.
You cannot have the truth without full disclosure.
Witch hunt tactic 101.... the truth never comes out.
Selassie I said:
The guy who made the tape only knows he knows that the league has not yet acted on players. He has no idea which ones they're going after and which ones they're not. He actually intervenes in their process if he outs players.
Meanwhile, Wms has been charged, he fully confessed, and that process is over. The tape tells us nothing about Williams we did not already know.
Wms. is guilty as charged. Blaming the messanger in this case does nothing to change that.
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The person who released this audio did so without the permission of its owner - The ex-saint... he's made that clear today. This guy who made the tape CLEARLY does not like GW.
Hiding the names of other willing participants of the program is hypocritical. Plain and simple.
I never said any of that other shit you're trying to make the leap to.
Are you saying hiding the names of other willing participants is the right thing to do?
Hiding the names of other willing participants of the program is hypocritical. Plain and simple.
I never said any of that other shit you're trying to make the leap to.
Are you saying hiding the names of other willing participants is the right thing to do?
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zn said:
To what end then is he releasing this? To back the NFL in their decision? To show proof that Williams was doing this? Did he submit a copy of this tape to the NFL without editing out the names of the players? Is he putting this out there to rile up the fan base? Did he lose his privileges of sitting in on team functions?
The tape does tell us something we didn't already KNOW. We may have assumed a lot of things including what is on the tape. But now we are actually hearing him say it.
You really can't know that he released this tape without a motive. As I said, the organization may have ended relations with him. One of his buddies may have asked him to get that SOB. He may have let the NFL know he planned to release the tape and they better go after Williams before he does. He may have even blackmailed them in a way.
I'm not saying that any of this is definitely the case but you can't possibly know it is not nor his true motivation.
And to intervening in the process... how is he NOT intervening in the Williams case? The league has not decided on how long the suspension will be or if Williams would even be allowed back into the league. Releasing this tape makes it that much more difficult for the league to allow him back in at minimum for the PR slap they would have to tap dance around.
Editing a tape like this brings out questions and rightfully so. Who is he protecting? What are his motives? Did someone put him up to it? Did he edit the tape further to omit qualifying words or phrases? Did the NFL "encourage" him to release an edited version to make them look like knights in shining armor and keep any shit storm from coming their way.
Ram Quixote
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Sorry. This is the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. This is a filmmaker, and we're only getting audio. It's edited to forward his stated agenda that Williams' (and other influential coaches) don't have the best interests of these young men in mind, unless wins is the absolute pedestal they say it is (as some fans insist as well).zn said:
I'm reminded of the 5 blind scholars trying to identify the elephant. Perhaps you're standing beside it, insisting it's a house. I'm holding the trunk, and it feels like a snake.
Ram Quixote said:
He offered bounties in that audio (which is illegal--the very act of offering a bounty is illegal). He deliberately named specific injuries to go after and that included making hits in the pile.
You don't need a context for that. It is what it is.
It's enough. The rest is time-waste. He did the 2 things you can never do, openly and in public and it's on record.
Any effort to pretend like that's not damning is just going to fail.
Same with any effort to try and blame the messanger.
And of course on top of it Williams has already admitted to all of this, openly.
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The only new news would have been the names of the players who were collecting their bounties.
Stranger
How big is infinity?
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To accurately assess this entire situation and to put it in context, one would have to publicly release audio from a wide range of coaches across all levels of football over an extended period of time. Pinpointing an NFL playoff pregame speech from one coach does nothing to put what he said into context at all. This is not fair journalism, nor is it accurate, nor is it contextual. This is what's called yellow journalism, and the messagner should be called out for his tactics.zn said:
The fact that you're buying into it means you're simply reacting in a knee-jerk manner to sensationalism.