Sam Bradford & The Not-So-Deep Threats

[moklerman]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2013/2/17/3997504/st-louis-rams-sam-bradford" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2013/2/17/ ... m-bradford</a>

Sam Bradford & The Not-So-Deep Threats
By Brandon Bate on Feb 17, 10:02a

For the first time since 2006, a St. Louis Rams Quarterback was able to eclipse 20 passing touchdowns in a single season. Sam Bradford, who just finished his third year as a pro, had the best season of his young career. Let’s have a look at his 21 touchdowns.

First things first. As pre-conceived notions would have it, you’ve already formed a strong opinion on the quarterback situation in St. Louis. Fair enough. You either belong to the "it’s a make-or-break year for Sam" camp, or the "You can’t question his ability until you surround him with NFL caliber talent." To each his own. As long as you’re not sporting a tattoo of your significant other in a Bradford jersey, your stance on Bradford has it’s merits.

As for 2012…by all accounts, you’ve got to be encouraged by the direction that the Rams are headed, and the direction that Sam Bradford is leading them. Any NFL fan - regardless of whether you’re an avid Rams fan or not - knows that the Rams have been deficient at two key positions on offense: Wide Receiver and Offensive Line. You look at the win column for the Rams over the past six years, and you can directly correlate the results to the absence of the aforementioned offensive contributors.

Give Sam credit. He hasn’t made something out of nothing, but it’s about as close as you can get.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Touchdowns aren’t everything in the NFL; winning is. And 21 touchdowns isn’t overly impressive, given the fact that the league leader - Drew Brees - more than doubled that figure with 43. It does demand respect, though, in regards to the company that he keeps. Matt Schaub, who just so happens to have an excellent group of WR’s, threw 22 TD’s in 2012, and right below Sam in the rankings, with 20 TD’s, was Matthew Stafford. That’s one QB who lead their team to a Divisional Championship in 2012, and one QB who’s thrown for over 10,000 yards in the past two seasons…and has the most dominant WR in the game.

Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson; Final answer. The question? "What’s the difference?" If you find it fair to assume - and I’ll trust that you do - Sam Bradford could potentially excel in the NFL with an elite wide receiver like either Johnson. So just how did he keep pace?

Let’s revisit each passing touchdown for the season...

Week 1[Lions] : 23 yard pass To Brandon Gibson (4th quarter)

Week 2 [Redskins] : 1 yard pass to Danny Amendola (2nd quarter)
Week 2 [Redskins] : 34 yard pass to Brandon Gibson (3rd quarter)
Week 2 [Redskins] : 1 yard pass to Matthew Mulligan (4th quarter)

Week 3 [Bears] : None

Week 4 [Seahawks] : None

Week 5 [Cardinals] : 7 yard pass to Lance Kendricks (1st quarter)
Week 5 [Cardinals] : 51 yard pass to Chris Givens (4th quarter)

Week 6 [Dolphins]: None

Week 7 [Packers]: 3 yard pass to Austin Pettis (4th quarter - 19secs left)

Week 8 [Patriots]: 50 yard pass to Chris Givens (1st quarter)

Bye

Week 10 [49ers]: 36 yard pass to Brian Quick (1st quarter)
Week 10 [49ers] : 2 yard pass to Austin Pettis (4th quarter)

Week 11 [Jets]: 1 yard pass to Brandon Gibson (1st quarter)
Week 11 [Jets] : 2 yard pass to Brandon Gibson (4th quarter)

Week 12 [Cardinals]: 37 yard pass to Lance Kendricks (2nd quarter)
Week 12 [Cardinals] : 37 yard pass to Chris Givens (3rd quarter)

Week 13 [49ers]: None

Week 14 [Bills]: 13 yard pass to Brandon Gibson (4th quarter)

Week 15 [Vikings] : 4 yard pass to Brian Quick (2nd quarter)
Week 15 [Vikings] : 6 yard pass to Danny Amendola (4th quarter)
Week 15 [Vikings] : 6 yard pass to Lance Kendricks (4th quarter)

Week 16 [Bucs] : 80 yard pass to Lance Kendricks (3rd quarter)
Week 16 [Bucs] : 6 yard pass to Austin Pettis (3rd quarter)

Week 17 [Seahawks]: 2 yard pass to Austin Pettis (2nd quarter)

While compiling these stats - and watching each on NFL Rewind - there were several things of interest that I thought should be noted.

First, that I was typing the name of a 2013 free agent whom many deem replaceable - Brandon Gibson - early and often. Second, that Chris Givens should re-invigerate Rams fans who yearn for a deep threat. Third, the majority of these touchdowns were near goal-line. Finally, not who or how, but when these TD’s were being scored.

Rams 2012 TD Receptions - 21

Brandon Gibson - 5
Austin Pettis - 4
Lance Kendricks - 4
Chris Givens - 3
Danny Amendola - 2
Brian Quick - 2
Matthew Mulligan - 1

Hmm…intriguing. Brandon Gibson, who is now in a contract year, lead the Rams in receiving TD’s in 2012. For those of you thinking ‘so what?’ go back and watch some tape. Not only did he lead the team in TD’s [and nearly yardage], but he had a tremendous rapport with Bradford nearing season’s end. Once [potentially still] known for being a preseason MVP, Gibson proved to be a capable - and reliable - receiving option throughout the duration of the 2012 season.

Right behind Gibson, finishing with four touchdowns, is Austin Pettis. The interesting thing about these TD figures is that most speculate that it’s a ‘one-or-the-other’ situation in regards to this tandem of WR’s. Pettis, who was drafted under the previous regime, is not in a contract year and will only count $780,000 [per] against the cap over the final two years of his initial rookie contract, which ends in 2014.

In case you missed it - and I did not - Pettis’ touchdown yardage stats point to him being anything other than the deep threat receiver that Chris Givens obviously is...

Total Yards on TD Receptions - 402


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Sam Bradford threw for a total of 3,702 yards in the 2012 regular season, and 402 of those [9.2%] of those came on touchdown passes. 20% of those combined TD yards derived from one play; an 80yd touchdown pass to Lance Kendricks in Week 16. You remember it? Danny Amendola threw a great block late in the play, and even Lance Kendricks was surprised that he had the stamina to make it the distance. Seriously, it was pitiful…

Over half of Bradford’s TD reception yards came from plays over 35 yards. 218 yards [54%] were the result of four very long, very exciting touchdown catches in 2012. Aside from Sam’s aforementioned season [and career] long, the remaining three TD’s came from a shiny new Rams weapon, and the only one who - at this point - has truly earned the honors of ‘deep threat.’ Now, in unison…"Thank you, Chris Givens."

If you haven’t noticed it already, statistically, it’s more telling...

By Length of TD Reception:

>10 yds: 12
11-20 yds: 1
21-30 yds: 1
31-40 yds: 4
41-50 yds: 1
50yds+ : 3

As I’ve mentioned - on more than one occasion - Sam Bradford’s 21-TD season was impressive. Equally as impressive was the season that mainstay running back Steven Jackson had. Jackson joined Hall-of-Fame company by finishing 2012 with his eighth consecutive 1,000+ yard season. He also tied Andy Dalton and Matthew Stafford for rushing TD’s…with four. Why does this matter?

It matters because twelve of Sam Bradford’s receiving TD’s came within ten yards of the goal line. As I mentioned previously, Austin Pettis is clearly a red zone target in the eyes of Bradford. In case you missed it, though, Pettis’ four touchdown receptions were for a combined 13 yards [receptions of 2, 2, 3, & 6 yards]. Brandon Gibson, who lead the team in TD catches, had both of the teams TD catches in Week 11…for a combined 3 yards.

Steven Jackson is another Rams free agent who seems to be getting the "it’s time to move on" treatment. I’ve got to wonder if the eight touchdowns that Sam Bradford threw for four yards [or less] had been handoffs to Jackson, if that would still be the case.

To put it into perspective - and Jackson were able to convert - he would’ve gone from four TD’s to twelve, and would’ve had more rushing TD's than Marshawn Lynch, Trent Richardson, and Doug Martin [all with 11]. He would’ve tied for 3rd in the NFL with Stevan Ridley…oh, and Adrian Peterson.

The fact that that Brian Schottenheimer and Jeff Fisher have enough faith in Sam and their WR’s to throw the ball from the goal line speaks to their trust in both. But what does it say about their faith in their offensive line’s ability to push forward sufficiently enough for a power back to run three to six more feet? Not a whole lot.

Regardless of how they were scored - or who scored them - why didn’t a career high in passing TD’s equal more success for Sam Bradford and the Rams in 2012?

Touchdowns By Quarter:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If you’re a Rams fan then you know the majority of games went into halftime close enough for you not want to change the channel…with the exception of a few games [go ahead and forget about London]. That doesn’t mean, however, that the halftime speech from Coach Fisher was enough to will them to victory.

Of the nine 4th quarter TD’s that Rams scored last season, the result was 2-6-1 in the win/loss/tie column(s). The touchdowns, though comforting, mean little when scored in garbage time. Not to discredit Sam, the receivers, or the team, but a more efficient offense with a propensity to score those TD’s earlier in the game heightens their potential to win, and compete for a playoff spot in the future.

So what’s it going to take for the Rams offense to improve? Nothing more than he should have been equipped with when the Rams made him the highest paid rookie in NFL history...

Sam Bradford’s Wish List Heading Into 2013:

( ? ) A Bolstered Offensive Line…that can stay healthy
( ? ) A Quality Cast of Wide Receivers
( √ ) A QB Coach
( √ ) Continuity At Offensive Coordinator
( √ ) A General Manager/Head Coach Who Actually Understand What It Takes To Win

The results of the 2012 season should provide hope for the team and it’s fans. For the first time in years, we've witnessed true progress. With Jeff Fisher at the helm - having all the faith in the world in Sam Bradford - sustained progress is now the expectation for 2013.

We all know what Sam Bradford - and the Rams offense - needs. We’re not General Managers, and collectively we cannot replicate the coaching prowess of Head Coach Jeff Fisher. If you’re not already, go ahead and excited about the 2013 offseason. There are two question marks listed above, and I’d be willing to bet that Rams’ brass knows how to turn them into check marks.

Given the time to set his feet and throw the ball, Sam Bradford makes anyone targeted a deep threat. In April - possibly sooner - we’ll find out how the Rams plan to afford him that luxury.

 

[moklerman]

I think it's noteworthy that as much as Bradford's criticized for his lack of production, he was right there with Schaub, Stafford and Flacco who have Johnson, Johnson and Boldin to throw it to.

 

[-X-]

Thanks for posting.

You can break Bradford down a hundred ways, and you can break down the team a hundred ways, and you can compare him to every QB in the league, but none of it matters. For Rams fans, you either *see* that he's a very good QB stuck in a shitty situation for years now, or you *see* that he can do no right, no matter what the circumstances are. He's gotta elevate guys. And stuff. Maybe scream a little. Throw a little tantrum. Or somethin'.

Can't wait until he starts tearing teams apart now that he's got some stability and direction.
A hush will fall over many a message board when that happens.
And I'll fucking LOVE it.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

without looking at any numbers it was obvious bradford was much improved over the previous two seasons. even though there were a few clunkers in there last season, watching the offense i felt like sam had everything under control and i always felt confident the offense would score when it needed to. even though it didn't always happen.

watching the last game against the seagulls i have never felt so confident in the offense since the gsot days. did they score alot of points? no, not at all but they looked so good against a great d in their home.

bradford is ready to take the next step. this year was always going to be a re-establishment year after the 2011 season cluster fuck. he did even better than i thought he would.

2013 will be the year of sam.

.

 

[Rambitious1]

http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2013/2/17/3997504/st-louis-rams-sam-bradford

Sam Bradford & The Not-So-Deep Threats
By Brandon Bate on Feb 17, 10:02a

For the first time since 2006, a St. Louis Rams Quarterback was able to eclipse 20 passing touchdowns in a single season. Sam Bradford, who just finished his third year as a pro, had the best season of his young career. Let’s have a look at his 21 touchdowns.

First things first. As pre-conceived notions would have it, you’ve already formed a strong opinion on the quarterback situation in St. Louis. Fair enough. You either belong to the "it’s a make-or-break year for Sam" camp, or the "You can’t question his ability until you surround him with NFL caliber talent." To each his own. As long as you’re not sporting a tattoo of your significant other in a Bradford jersey, your stance on Bradford has it’s merits.

As for 2012…by all accounts, you’ve got to be encouraged by the direction that the Rams are headed, and the direction that Sam Bradford is leading them. Any NFL fan - regardless of whether you’re an avid Rams fan or not - knows that the Rams have been deficient at two key positions on offense: Wide Receiver and Offensive Line. You look at the win column for the Rams over the past six years, and you can directly correlate the results to the absence of the aforementioned offensive contributors.

Give Sam credit. He hasn’t made something out of nothing, but it’s about as close as you can get.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Touchdowns aren’t everything in the NFL; winning is. And 21 touchdowns isn’t overly impressive, given the fact that the league leader - Drew Brees - more than doubled that figure with 43. It does demand respect, though, in regards to the company that he keeps. Matt Schaub, who just so happens to have an excellent group of WR’s, threw 22 TD’s in 2012, and right below Sam in the rankings, with 20 TD’s, was Matthew Stafford. That’s one QB who lead their team to a Divisional Championship in 2012, and one QB who’s thrown for over 10,000 yards in the past two seasons…and has the most dominant WR in the game.

Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson; Final answer. The question? "What’s the difference?" If you find it fair to assume - and I’ll trust that you do - Sam Bradford could potentially excel in the NFL with an elite wide receiver like either Johnson. So just how did he keep pace?

Let’s revisit each passing touchdown for the season...

Week 1[Lions] : 23 yard pass To Brandon Gibson (4th quarter)

Week 2 [Redskins] : 1 yard pass to Danny Amendola (2nd quarter)
Week 2 [Redskins] : 34 yard pass to Brandon Gibson (3rd quarter)
Week 2 [Redskins] : 1 yard pass to Matthew Mulligan (4th quarter)

Week 3 [Bears] : None

Week 4 [Seahawks] : None

Week 5 [Cardinals] : 7 yard pass to Lance Kendricks (1st quarter)
Week 5 [Cardinals] : 51 yard pass to Chris Givens (4th quarter)

Week 6 [Dolphins]: None

Week 7 [Packers]: 3 yard pass to Austin Pettis (4th quarter - 19secs left)

Week 8 [Patriots]: 50 yard pass to Chris Givens (1st quarter)

Bye

Week 10 [49ers]: 36 yard pass to Brian Quick (1st quarter)
Week 10 [49ers] : 2 yard pass to Austin Pettis (4th quarter)

Week 11 [Jets]: 1 yard pass to Brandon Gibson (1st quarter)
Week 11 [Jets] : 2 yard pass to Brandon Gibson (4th quarter)

Week 12 [Cardinals]: 37 yard pass to Lance Kendricks (2nd quarter)
Week 12 [Cardinals] : 37 yard pass to Chris Givens (3rd quarter)

Week 13 [49ers]: None

Week 14 [Bills]: 13 yard pass to Brandon Gibson (4th quarter)

Week 15 [Vikings] : 4 yard pass to Brian Quick (2nd quarter)
Week 15 [Vikings] : 6 yard pass to Danny Amendola (4th quarter)
Week 15 [Vikings] : 6 yard pass to Lance Kendricks (4th quarter)

Week 16 [Bucs] : 80 yard pass to Lance Kendricks (3rd quarter)
Week 16 [Bucs] : 6 yard pass to Austin Pettis (3rd quarter)

Week 17 [Seahawks]: 2 yard pass to Austin Pettis (2nd quarter)

While compiling these stats - and watching each on NFL Rewind - there were several things of interest that I thought should be noted.

First, that I was typing the name of a 2013 free agent whom many deem replaceable - Brandon Gibson - early and often. Second, that Chris Givens should re-invigerate Rams fans who yearn for a deep threat. Third, the majority of these touchdowns were near goal-line. Finally, not who or how, but when these TD’s were being scored.

Rams 2012 TD Receptions - 21

Brandon Gibson - 5
Austin Pettis - 4
Lance Kendricks - 4
Chris Givens - 3
Danny Amendola - 2
Brian Quick - 2
Matthew Mulligan - 1

Hmm…intriguing. Brandon Gibson, who is now in a contract year, lead the Rams in receiving TD’s in 2012. For those of you thinking ‘so what?’ go back and watch some tape. Not only did he lead the team in TD’s [and nearly yardage], but he had a tremendous rapport with Bradford nearing season’s end. Once [potentially still] known for being a preseason MVP, Gibson proved to be a capable - and reliable - receiving option throughout the duration of the 2012 season.

Right behind Gibson, finishing with four touchdowns, is Austin Pettis. The interesting thing about these TD figures is that most speculate that it’s a ‘one-or-the-other’ situation in regards to this tandem of WR’s. Pettis, who was drafted under the previous regime, is not in a contract year and will only count $780,000 [per] against the cap over the final two years of his initial rookie contract, which ends in 2014.

In case you missed it - and I did not - Pettis’ touchdown yardage stats point to him being anything other than the deep threat receiver that Chris Givens obviously is...

Total Yards on TD Receptions - 402


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Sam Bradford threw for a total of 3,702 yards in the 2012 regular season, and 402 of those [9.2%] of those came on touchdown passes. 20% of those combined TD yards derived from one play; an 80yd touchdown pass to Lance Kendricks in Week 16. You remember it? Danny Amendola threw a great block late in the play, and even Lance Kendricks was surprised that he had the stamina to make it the distance. Seriously, it was pitiful…

Over half of Bradford’s TD reception yards came from plays over 35 yards. 218 yards [54%] were the result of four very long, very exciting touchdown catches in 2012. Aside from Sam’s aforementioned season [and career] long, the remaining three TD’s came from a shiny new Rams weapon, and the only one who - at this point - has truly earned the honors of ‘deep threat.’ Now, in unison…"Thank you, Chris Givens."

If you haven’t noticed it already, statistically, it’s more telling...

By Length of TD Reception:

>10 yds: 12
11-20 yds: 1
21-30 yds: 1
31-40 yds: 4
41-50 yds: 1
50yds+ : 3

As I’ve mentioned - on more than one occasion - Sam Bradford’s 21-TD season was impressive. Equally as impressive was the season that mainstay running back Steven Jackson had. Jackson joined Hall-of-Fame company by finishing 2012 with his eighth consecutive 1,000+ yard season. He also tied Andy Dalton and Matthew Stafford for rushing TD’s…with four. Why does this matter?

It matters because twelve of Sam Bradford’s receiving TD’s came within ten yards of the goal line. As I mentioned previously, Austin Pettis is clearly a red zone target in the eyes of Bradford. In case you missed it, though, Pettis’ four touchdown receptions were for a combined 13 yards [receptions of 2, 2, 3, & 6 yards]. Brandon Gibson, who lead the team in TD catches, had both of the teams TD catches in Week 11…for a combined 3 yards.

Steven Jackson is another Rams free agent who seems to be getting the "it’s time to move on" treatment. I’ve got to wonder if the eight touchdowns that Sam Bradford threw for four yards [or less] had been handoffs to Jackson, if that would still be the case.

To put it into perspective - and Jackson were able to convert - he would’ve gone from four TD’s to twelve, and would’ve had more rushing TD's than Marshawn Lynch, Trent Richardson, and Doug Martin [all with 11]. He would’ve tied for 3rd in the NFL with Stevan Ridley…oh, and Adrian Peterson.

The fact that that Brian Schottenheimer and Jeff Fisher have enough faith in Sam and their WR’s to throw the ball from the goal line speaks to their trust in both. But what does it say about their faith in their offensive line’s ability to push forward sufficiently enough for a power back to run three to six more feet? Not a whole lot.

Regardless of how they were scored - or who scored them - why didn’t a career high in passing TD’s equal more success for Sam Bradford and the Rams in 2012?

Touchdowns By Quarter:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If you’re a Rams fan then you know the majority of games went into halftime close enough for you not want to change the channel…with the exception of a few games [go ahead and forget about London]. That doesn’t mean, however, that the halftime speech from Coach Fisher was enough to will them to victory.

Of the nine 4th quarter TD’s that Rams scored last season, the result was 2-6-1 in the win/loss/tie column(s). The touchdowns, though comforting, mean little when scored in garbage time. Not to discredit Sam, the receivers, or the team, but a more efficient offense with a propensity to score those TD’s earlier in the game heightens their potential to win, and compete for a playoff spot in the future.

So what’s it going to take for the Rams offense to improve? Nothing more than he should have been equipped with when the Rams made him the highest paid rookie in NFL history...

Sam Bradford’s Wish List Heading Into 2013:

( ? ) A Bolstered Offensive Line…that can stay healthy
( ? ) A Quality Cast of Wide Receivers
( √ ) A QB Coach
( √ ) Continuity At Offensive Coordinator
( √ ) A General Manager/Head Coach Who Actually Understand What It Takes To Win

The results of the 2012 season should provide hope for the team and it’s fans. For the first time in years, we've witnessed true progress. With Jeff Fisher at the helm - having all the faith in the world in Sam Bradford - sustained progress is now the expectation for 2013.

We all know what Sam Bradford - and the Rams offense - needs. We’re not General Managers, and collectively we cannot replicate the coaching prowess of Head Coach Jeff Fisher. If you’re not already, go ahead and excited about the 2013 offseason. There are two question marks listed above, and I’d be willing to bet that Rams’ brass knows how to turn them into check marks.

Given the time to set his feet and throw the ball, Sam Bradford makes anyone targeted a deep threat. In April - possibly sooner - we’ll find out how the Rams plan to afford him that luxury.

Nice post.

 

[jrry32]

.

without looking at any numbers it was obvious bradford was much improved over the previous two seasons. even though there were a few clunkers in there last season, watching the offense i felt like sam had everything under control and i always felt confident the offense would score when it needed to. even though it didn't always happen.

watching the last game against the seagulls i have never felt so confident in the offense since the gsot days. did they score alot of points? no, not at all but they looked so good against a great d in their home.

bradford is ready to take the next step. this year was always going to be a re-establishment year after the 2011 season cluster freak. he did even better than i thought he would.

2013 will be the year of sam.

.

I concur.

Thanks for posting.

You can break Bradford down a hundred ways, and you can break down the team a hundred ways, and you can compare him to every QB in the league, but none of it matters. For Rams fans, you either *see* that he's a very good QB stuck in a cruddy situation for years now, or you *see* that he can do no right, no matter what the circumstances are. He's gotta elevate guys. And stuff. Maybe scream a little. Throw a little tantrum. Or somethin'.

Can't wait until he starts tearing teams apart now that he's got some stability and direction.
A hush will fall over many a message board when that happens.
And I'll freaking LOVE it.

Yea, the elevate one is always particularly funny to me...especially when people try to come up with evidence to it. I've had people try to use the Green Bay WR corp as an example of the QB elevating their WRs...I, of course, pointed out the numerous flaws in that theory.

But it's always entertaining. Apparently, Bradford does nothing to elevate the games of Danny Amendola and Brandon Gibson. How quickly people forget that Amendola was a guy we signed off a team's practice squad and Gibson was a throw-in in the Spoon trade...or that many Rams fans have thought Gibson would be cut each of the last 2 years.

And yet somehow when Amendola is on pace for 1000+ yards before his injury and Gibson puts together a solid year statistically...Sam didn't elevate them. Not to say Amendola isn't talented. Just saying that the whole concept of elevating players is pretty ridiculous. How do you know whether or not you elevated a guy? And does the WR get credit at all for elevating himself?

QBs don't "elevate talent", they merely help them put up better stats. It's a lot easier to put up great numbers when you have a passer who throws the ball a lot and throws it accurately. What players typically attempt a lot of passes? Top QBs. So while you look better statistically...you're still the same player. It's just the QB utilizing you more effectively.

So how do we know that Sam hasn't utilized our current guys effectively? It's a chicken/egg type argument.

 

[nittany ram]

Thanks for posting.

You can break Bradford down a hundred ways, and you can break down the team a hundred ways, and you can compare him to every QB in the league, but none of it matters. For Rams fans, you either *see* that he's a very good QB stuck in a cruddy situation for years now, or you *see* that he can do no right, no matter what the circumstances are. He's gotta elevate guys. And stuff. Maybe scream a little. Throw a little tantrum. Or somethin'.

Can't wait until he starts tearing teams apart now that he's got some stability and direction.
A hush will fall over many a message board when that happens.
And I'll freaking LOVE it.

That's one of the reasons I like it here and at Huddle. I never see the ridiculous, over the top criticisms of Bradford on those boards. There are nuanced and fair critiques, which is what I want to see, but none of the stupid "bust" talk.

Smart fans.

 

[-X-]

Yea, the elevate one is always particularly funny to me...especially when people try to come up with evidence to it. I've had people try to use the Green Bay WR corp as an example of the QB elevating their WRs...I, of course, pointed out the numerous flaws in that theory.

But it's always entertaining. Apparently, Bradford does nothing to elevate the games of Danny Amendola and Brandon Gibson. How quickly people forget that Amendola was a guy we signed off a team's practice squad and Gibson was a throw-in in the Spoon trade...or that many Rams fans have thought Gibson would be cut each of the last 2 years.

And yet somehow when Amendola is on pace for 1000+ yards before his injury and Gibson puts together a solid year statistically...Sam didn't elevate them. Not to say Amendola isn't talented. Just saying that the whole concept of elevating players is pretty ridiculous. How do you know whether or not you elevated a guy? And does the WR get credit at all for elevating himself?

QBs don't "elevate talent", they merely help them put up better stats. It's a lot easier to put up great numbers when you have a passer who throws the ball a lot and throws it accurately. What players typically attempt a lot of passes? Top QBs. So while you look better statistically...you're still the same player. It's just the QB utilizing you more effectively.

So how do we know that Sam hasn't utilized our current guys effectively? It's a chicken/egg type argument.

Couldn't have said it better myself (though, I guess I just did by quoting you - lol). But as long as we're getting into ridiculous statements, let me throw a couple into the mix. We can call them 'Nominees for Dumbest Things Said on the Interwebs."

1. He doesn't elevate anyone. I guess QBs can turn that elevation thing on and off when they need to, or ... maybe it's a fickle function that chooses when it works. Otherwise, why would the good QBs ever lose? You can't lose if you can elevate the play of other guys, right? Down by 21 in the 4th quarter because your defense blows chunks? Not a problem. *folds arms like a genie* BLINK! There. Just turned that defense from 31st in the league in points allowed to 1st. Entire O-line injured in week 4? Pshhh. We got this, MAN! I'll just whip up a little elevation cement and put up an invisible wall. Nobody will be the wiser (shhhh ... it's our little secret).

2. All teams have injuries. That's my favorite statement from the 2011 season. Maybe so. But not all teams are signing street free agents on Tuesday and having them start on Sunday. Not all teams have just ONE offensive linemen start and finish the season (Dahl) and go through 3 left tackles.

3. Bradford needs hall of famers around him in order to be good. Really? When has that happened? In order for you to say that, it would have had to have happened already, right? That's how you back up a statement. With facts. Fact is, he's only had one. And he's a RB (if he gets in, which he should). Meanwhile, at all the other positions (WR, OL, TE) he's had this.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4C1ULpex3s[/youtube]

I often wonder if Peyton Manning could lay claim to that during his 15 year career. Bradford's played 2.625 years (worth of actual playing time). 30 and 23. I wonder how many hall of famers we inadvertently released from that pile of meh. And that provides me with a pretty good segue...

4. Put (insert QB here) on this team and they win (this many games).

I don't care what side of the Bradford debate you're on. Quit. Fucking. Saying. THAT. That's my nominee for dumbest right there. There's no way to prove it. You can try, by bringing up years where a QB had to deal with similar circumstances, or how a different QB succeeded/failed in certain years because of this (or that), but it's still pretty fucking dumb.

Fact is, it's pretty easy to see how QBs can thrive and choke. They're dependent upon other players. Otherwise, they could block for themselves, throw to themselves, and put on some sick moves to find the endzone. By themselves. QBs like Bulger don't become the quickest QB to 10,000 yards passing by being shitty QBs. And they don't find themselves injured multiple times, not wanting to play football anymore, and being on a 2 win team because they're shitty QBs. They're just QBs. You want them to succeed? Give them the things that make it easier to do so. You want them to fail? Take those things away.

 

[Thordaddy]

Thanks for posting.

You can break Bradford down a hundred ways, and you can break down the team a hundred ways, and you can compare him to every QB in the league, but none of it matters. For Rams fans, you either *see* that he's a very good QB stuck in a shitty situation for years now, or you *see* that he can do no right, no matter what the circumstances are. He's gotta elevate guys. And stuff. Maybe scream a little. Throw a little tantrum. Or somethin'.

Can't wait until he starts tearing teams apart now that he's got some stability and direction.
A hush will fall over many a message board when that happens.
And I'll fucking LOVE it.

Well I see it a third way, that the kid has the physical and mental attributes to be a first rate QB, has been in a bad situtation, but hasn't ever had a game where he was just lights out and completely gave his proponents something to point to.

Surely in this many years ONCE a game plan could have been so perfectly conceived that he would have lit it up, so questions remain. I think he'll be fine, but the moment he asks for a raise whataya gonna say if his body of work remains at this level ?

 

[-X-]

Thanks for posting.

You can break Bradford down a hundred ways, and you can break down the team a hundred ways, and you can compare him to every QB in the league, but none of it matters. For Rams fans, you either *see* that he's a very good QB stuck in a shitty situation for years now, or you *see* that he can do no right, no matter what the circumstances are. He's gotta elevate guys. And stuff. Maybe scream a little. Throw a little tantrum. Or somethin'.

Can't wait until he starts tearing teams apart now that he's got some stability and direction.
A hush will fall over many a message board when that happens.
And I'll fucking LOVE it.

Well I see it a third way, that the kid has the physical and mental attributes to be a first rate QB, has been in a bad situtation, but hasn't ever had a game where he was just lights out and completely gave his proponents something to point to.

Surely in this many years ONCE a game plan could have been so perfectly conceived that he would have lit it up, so questions remain. I think he'll be fine, but the moment he asks for a raise whataya gonna say if his body of work remains at this level ?

I can appreciate those comments, but they're kinda contradictory to me. If he's been in a bad situation, which you acknowledge, and hasn't really had the support to get the ball to great receivers again and again and again, then how is he expected to go all 'lights out'? But I can point to a few games where he was pretty stellar. Particularly this year. I don't know if those games meet your criteria though, because 'lights out' to you could mean throwing for 500 yards and 4 TDs. But again, I have to ask .... "to whom"?

Another contradictory hypothetical would be his asking for a raise while his productivity flat-lined. I really don't see that as being based in reality. To me he's a good QB who has the potential to be great. If he continues to deal with injuries along the line and at receiver, for the remainder of his contract, and the Rams get to the point that his contract is up for renegotiation, then I'm sure they'll handle it accordingly. What *I* would say, feel, or do, is immaterial. My opinion of him won't change. He's simply not a bad QB *to me*. Know what I'm saying? If the Rams fail to set him up, or circumstances beyond his control hamper his production, then it is what it is. If he gets traded or cut, it is what it is. That won't prove anything to me other than it wasn't the right situation for him. In order for my opinion to change on Bradford, he's going to have to absolutely tank on his own. Or quit. Or completely lose the things I see in him that I believe make him an asset at the position.

 

[jrry32]

Thanks for posting.

You can break Bradford down a hundred ways, and you can break down the team a hundred ways, and you can compare him to every QB in the league, but none of it matters. For Rams fans, you either *see* that he's a very good QB stuck in a cruddy situation for years now, or you *see* that he can do no right, no matter what the circumstances are. He's gotta elevate guys. And stuff. Maybe scream a little. Throw a little tantrum. Or somethin'.

Can't wait until he starts tearing teams apart now that he's got some stability and direction.
A hush will fall over many a message board when that happens.
And I'll freaking LOVE it.

Well I see it a third way, that the kid has the physical and mental attributes to be a first rate QB, has been in a bad situtation, but hasn't ever had a game where he was just lights out and completely gave his proponents something to point to.

Surely in this many years ONCE a game plan could have been so perfectly conceived that he would have lit it up, so questions remain. I think he'll be fine, but the moment he asks for a raise whataya gonna say if his body of work remains at this level ?

Does the 2012 Washington game count? If the refs did their job, we would have scored around 40 points with Bradford throwing for 300+ yards and 4 TDs.

They had no answer for him.

 

[moklerman]

Does the 2012 Washington game count? If the refs did their job, we would have scored around 40 points with Bradford throwing for 300+ yards and 4 TDs.

They had no answer for him.

I'd put the game in SF on the list too. If Gibson doesn't line up wrong, Bradford has a huge day and beats the 49ers in their house with an 80 yard bomb to win the game.

 

[Angry Ram]

Thanks for posting.

You can break Bradford down a hundred ways, and you can break down the team a hundred ways, and you can compare him to every QB in the league, but none of it matters. For Rams fans, you either *see* that he's a very good QB stuck in a shitty situation for years now, or you *see* that he can do no right, no matter what the circumstances are. He's gotta elevate guys. And stuff. Maybe scream a little. Throw a little tantrum. Or somethin'.

Can't wait until he starts tearing teams apart now that he's got some stability and direction.
A hush will fall over many a message board when that happens.
And I'll fucking LOVE it.

Well I see it a third way, that the kid has the physical and mental attributes to be a first rate QB, has been in a bad situtation, but hasn't ever had a game where he was just lights out and completely gave his proponents something to point to.

Surely in this many years ONCE a game plan could have been so perfectly conceived that he would have lit it up, so questions remain. I think he'll be fine, but the moment he asks for a raise whataya gonna say if his body of work remains at this level ?

The Giants had to fake injuries to stop him.

And honestly I'm just so sick of numbers now...just let them play the damn game. Football is an ugly game tried to make pretty with stats.

 

[bluecoconuts]

In terms of big games for Sam, I'd also give the Denver game his rookie year. 300 yards and 3 TD's in the first half, if not for Spags dialing it back big time, Sam probably could have topped 500 yards and 5 TD's. He was killing them with his no huddle.

 

[Username]

Given the time to set his feet and throw the ball, Sam Bradford makes anyone targeted a deep threat. In April - possibly sooner - we’ll find out how the Rams plan to afford him that luxury.

After watching every snap on O, and re-watching, and re-watching... I have to agree that it is paramount that we can put a good line in front of Sam. This staff gets it. They saw that ojinnaka was shit and needed to be dumped, but he had to be brought back due to injuries and depth. They went out and tried to establish depth throughout the season. Shelly Smiths last 3 games we promising, Barksdale flashed at times. Problem is Saffolds/Wells/Dahls injury history, and Turners/Richardson contract is up. That's a lot of question marks.

As much as I would love to go get some play makers, deep down inside I know that the offensive line is and should be priority #1. By far. Obviously we really need both. Before, I would say it's not possible to do. With this organization I have faith though. I would love to be a fly on the wall in the offseason plans meetings. :tooth:

Having a all star coaching staff helps too btw. This staff is going to churn out some future superstars. Bet.

 

[Username]

In terms of big games for Sam, I'd also give the Denver game his rookie year. 300 yards and 3 TD's in the first half, if not for Spags dialing it back big time, Sam probably could have topped 500 yards and 5 TD's. He was killing them with his no huddle.

The Washington game this year was probably the best game I've seen him play thus far.