Re: Rams v Vikings: What happened?

[-X-]

The OL needs to be better. I personally think that's clear. I think Saffold is fine. Other than that, I would love to see better talent.

Anyway, I think this game along with a couple of others shows us where we are at the moment.

We are a team with, overall, marginal talent. We are tougher than we were. But we have very limited talent.

Because of good coaching, we can play up near our ceiling. And we can over-perform in the W/L column.

But because of our talent limitations, we are vulnerable to opponents who can turn on a high level of performance. GB. NE. Now the Viking DL and AP. We just don't have enough answers to contain elite eruptions of talent.

Consider this. The main achievement of the season is beating and drawing SF. SF is a very good team.

But their offense is containable in a way that AP or Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers are not. So, it is within reach for a limited but well schemed defense to keep a game in reach. Those were games that we had the capacity to compete in.

I don't think we are really capable right now of containing an erupting team. This is especially true of our offense. We don't have the OL or the WRs to impose consistent offensive pressure on an opponent. And that is a major weakness. People don't realize how much offensive pressure affects a game--not just in time of possession, but in pressuring the opponent's defense AND OFFENSE. And we can't do it right now. We can't, for example, very often ANSWER an opponent's TD. Yesterday, we answered the 1st TD. But the 2nd blew the game out.

I also don't have the sense that our defense is where it needs to be yet. It's better than it was. But we have a long way to go to be able to properly contain an opponent's offensive excellence.

We just aren't there yet. We're playing hard and over our heads. But we have no answer yet for elite talent. Even narrow dimensions of elite talent in a team like Minny. Their ceiling is much higher than ours.

 

[Faceplant]

True.......true.

 

[Stranger]

Great post, thanks for uploading.

So, my question then is, are we one or two off-seasons away from closing the talent gap with the elite-talent teams? In other words, how deep and wide (across how many players) is this gap?

By the way, I just streamed Bernie for like 3-mins. Talk about a GAP! There is a huge gap between the quality of discussion here and the gibberish that Bernie spews. I just wonder what it would be like if for 1-wk a few of this forum's experts filled Bernie's talk show with quality and relevant Rams talk and analysis. Hearing him for just those few mins really gave me an even greater appreciation for what's been built here, on this forum.

 

[-X-]

Great post, thanks for uploading.

So, my question then is, are we one or two off-seasons away from closing the talent gap with the elite-talent teams? In other words, how deep and wide (across how many players) is this gap?

By the way, I just streamed Bernie for like 3-mins. Talk about a GAP! There is a huge gap between the quality of discussion here and the gibberish that Bernie spews. I just wonder what it would be like if for 1-wk a few of this forum's experts filled Bernie's talk show with quality and relevant Rams talk and analysis. Hearing him for just those few mins really gave me an even greater appreciation for what's been built here, on this forum.

Thanks man. For the kind words.

The time-frame for putting together a team that's able to withstand the onslaught of teams like NE and GB is something that I don't think can be answered. There are so many variables that we're not aware of. For instance, do we know for sure how close Brian Quick is? Do we know for sure if Jackson is returning? Do we know if Schottenheimer is going to get a HC opportunity? Will injuries sweep through this team like the plague again next year? We'd have to try and ballpark where we are right now in terms of matching that kind of offensive output while at the same time keeping those teams' offenses under wraps (relatively speaking). Then we'd have to anticipate the leap they'll take next year after another off-season and a few more key pieces.

I see enough out of this team that makes me think we can do much better next year. You can see them not being on the same page quite a bit, and that's hallmark for not having enough time to gel together. Fisher's doing a pretty good job of keeping things light and installing a family-type atmosphere. He, as well as his assistants, also seem to have this team playing at a higher level. Almost overachieving. If they can elevate their own talent and knowledge, then he can likely have them playing even higher.

So, yeah. I didn't answer a single thing, did I? :yeh:

 

[ramsince62]

The OL needs to be better. I personally think that's clear. I think Saffold is fine. Other than that, I would love to see better talent.

Anyway, I think this game along with a couple of others shows us where we are at the moment.

We are a team with, overall, marginal talent. We are tougher than we were. But we have very limited talent.

Because of good coaching, we can play up near our ceiling. And we can over-perform in the W/L column.

But because of our talent limitations, we are vulnerable to opponents who can turn on a high level of performance. GB. NE. Now the Viking DL and AP. We just don't have enough answers to contain elite eruptions of talent.

Consider this. The main achievement of the season is beating and drawing SF. SF is a very good team.

But their offense is containable in a way that AP or Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers are not. So, it is within reach for a limited but well schemed defense to keep a game in reach. Those were games that we had the capacity to compete in.

I don't think we are really capable right now of containing an erupting team. This is especially true of our offense. We don't have the OL or the WRs to impose consistent offensive pressure on an opponent. And that is a major weakness. People don't realize how much offensive pressure affects a game--not just in time of possession, but in pressuring the opponent's defense AND OFFENSE. And we can't do it right now. We can't, for example, very often ANSWER an opponent's TD. Yesterday, we answered the 1st TD. But the 2nd blew the game out.

I also don't have the sense that our defense is where it needs to be yet. It's better than it was. But we have a long way to go to be able to properly contain an opponent's offensive excellence.

We just aren't there yet. We're playing hard and over our heads. But we have no answer yet for elite talent. Even narrow dimensions of elite talent in a team like Minny. Their ceiling is much higher than ours.

Yes, good post....let me express my opinion or observations very briefly, they're not a great deal different than yours with few exceptions.

This offense in its present form is not capable of scoring the points necessary to compete against high powered offenses, period. Look at the niners last evening, only their ability to outscore Brady and company made the difference. We know what the needs are, it's just a matter of time before Fish and company fill in the blanks.

How long will it take before we can go toe to toe against higher scoring offenses? I've been saying it all year (some have objected to my statement); "wait until next year", but there it is. Will we be powerful enough to compete for the conference title next year? I doubt it, but we'll be competitive enough to win a few from the likes of the Hags, aints, cowgirls, and gnats. I expect we'll even make the playoff's (wild card) with little difficulty....all of which naturally assumes that we stay relatively healthy (knock on wood).

As for when we get to "the show", I'd be willing to wager a tidy sum that 2014 is our year.

As for our defense, the front is already damn good and will get better. It is only because of them that we're as competitive as we are this season. This defense is top 10 in its present form, yes we know our needs, at safety, LB and a few back ups, but even now, an offense capable of averaging between 24 and 27 points would already have us in a wild card position.

Finally special teams is set, we're in fine shape and hopefully we'll still find a returner that can set us up with consistently improved field position. Our kickers will only get better, before it's over, I fully expect GZ to hold every kicking record in the books and once Hekker overcomes his "shanks", he'll be a weapon of choice.

The futures bright my friends, it's simply a matter of filling a few holes, staying healthy and putting enough points up. I know that many of you are disappointed about this weekend and justifiably so, but this is an extremely young team that has in my opinion exceeded any reasonable expectations this early. Good grief folks, these kids are just beginning to come together, it's just a matter of time, experience and consistency.

 

[RamFan503]

That's a good write up Paul.

I suppose it's good that we can wax philosophical the Monday after a loss. I think most of us are very disappointed about yesterday but for me, I see a work in progress. If we were better than we are, I would have been even more pissed after that game. If we were worse than we are, I would have been disgusted by that loss. So being that I'm neither hugely pissed nor disgusted, I'll take that as a good sign.

This team is I think one season away from being playoff contenders and two to three from having realistic expectations of winning it all. I think Snead/Fisher will make completing the defense a high priority. They will also beef up the line and look for SJ's replacement to go along with DR/Pead. I am not sure how sold they are that they need to break the bank on a #1 receiver. Hopefully they are. I would love to see us have a receiver that is not only a real weapon but can take two defenders with him virtually any time he's in the game.

So I see the "easy" part as finishing the defensive build. But I also am sure that Fisher is very weary of single digit point first halfs. I think there will be some splash moves to make this offense more of a threat. Hopefully that comes via trade or FA but I think it will happen.

I'm not that concerned about the possibility of Schotty leaving. It appears obvious to me that he's no miracle worker. Maybe most of the offensive woes are that we have very weak talent. I think that will be addressed as much as possible. But if Schotty gets a better offer, I don't think the offense will be learning a totally different scheme. It'll no doubt change but not drastically.

All in all, I like where we're heading and it's going to be cool to watch it unfold.

 

[Ram Quixote]

The OL needs to be better. I personally think that's clear. I think Saffold is fine. Other than that, I would love to see better talent.

Anyway, I think this game along with a couple of others shows us where we are at the moment.

We are a team with, overall, marginal talent. We are tougher than we were. But we have very limited talent.

Because of good coaching, we can play up near our ceiling. And we can over-perform in the W/L column.

But because of our talent limitations, we are vulnerable to opponents who can turn on a high level of performance. GB. NE. Now the Viking DL and AP. We just don't have enough answers to contain elite eruptions of talent.

Consider this. The main achievement of the season is beating and drawing SF. SF is a very good team.

But their offense is containable in a way that AP or Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers are not. So, it is within reach for a limited but well schemed defense to keep a game in reach. Those were games that we had the capacity to compete in.

I don't think we are really capable right now of containing an erupting team. This is especially true of our offense. We don't have the OL or the WRs to impose consistent offensive pressure on an opponent. And that is a major weakness. People don't realize how much offensive pressure affects a game--not just in time of possession, but in pressuring the opponent's defense AND OFFENSE. And we can't do it right now. We can't, for example, very often ANSWER an opponent's TD. Yesterday, we answered the 1st TD. But the 2nd blew the game out.

I also don't have the sense that our defense is where it needs to be yet. It's better than it was. But we have a long way to go to be able to properly contain an opponent's offensive excellence.

We just aren't there yet. We're playing hard and over our heads. But we have no answer yet for elite talent. Even narrow dimensions of elite talent in a team like Minny. Their ceiling is much higher than ours.

I disagree with the marginal talent statement, as a generalization of this team. There are certainly players starting that should be only backups (B.Richardson, C.Dahl), but the thing that is holding this team back is experience. Experience with the D & O schemes; experience in the NFL for our rookies and second-year players; and experience with stability.

We can debate who will make a leap next year but I believe there will be an across-the-board leap for this team. There have been disturbing moments this season (London) and stunning ones. But the things that make a difference are how the team responds to adversity. Falling behind big yesterday, the offense and defense regrouped and played much better, a far cry from what happened in London. That's progress.

Fisher will be looking to the young players for improvement in the offseason, but that won't prevent them from looking at some FAs and resigning our own. I agree we need to add a WR to fill that #1 slot, whether that's via trade or FA signing. I think our cap situation is better than characterized. IIRC, we were due to be one of the better off teams, even with the extensions for Long and Laurinaitis.

 

[-X-]

Just to be clear. I didn't write that. Every once in a while I'll take a post from another board and put it here for consideration or continued discussion. I happen to agree with most of it and that's why I posted it.

 

[Username]

The team fought and battled to the end. It sucks, but at least they didn't give up. Just a reality check and a wake up call. It should help us in the long run. Hopefully.

 

[-X-]

The team fought and battled to the end. It sucks, but at least they didn't give up. Just a reality check and a wake up call. It should help us in the long run. Hopefully.

Hey thanks Dr Phil. :razzed:

I think this was one of those games that needed to be played close to perfect in order to win.
We played quite a bit less than perfect, so we got what we got.

If you want more, you have to require more from yourself.

 

[bluecoconuts]

The team fought and battled to the end. It sucks, but at least they didn't give up. Just a reality check and a wake up call. It should help us in the long run. Hopefully.

Hey thanks Dr Phil. :razzed:

I think this was one of those games that needed to be played close to perfect in order to win.
We played quite a bit less than perfect, so we got what we got.

If you want more, you have to require more from yourself.

Dr Phil would say that we lost because we didn't have women playing or coaching. Men are stupid, remember?

 

[RamFan503]

Just to be clear. I didn't write that. Every once in a while I'll take a post from another board and put it here for consideration or continued discussion. I happen to agree with most of it and that's why I posted it.

Good find PaulBot.

 

[-X-]

Just to be clear. I didn't write that. Every once in a while I'll take a post from another board and put it here for consideration or continued discussion. I happen to agree with most of it and that's why I posted it.

Good find PaulBot.

That's MISTER PaulBot to you, pally.

 

[RamFan503]

Just to be clear. I didn't write that. Every once in a while I'll take a post from another board and put it here for consideration or continued discussion. I happen to agree with most of it and that's why I posted it.

Good find PaulBot.

That's MISTER PaulBot to you, pally.

Sorry sir. I WILL do better.

 

[Username]

The team fought and battled to the end. It sucks, but at least they didn't give up. Just a reality check and a wake up call. It should help us in the long run. Hopefully.

Hey thanks Dr Phil. :razzed:

I think this was one of those games that needed to be played close to perfect in order to win.
We played quite a bit less than perfect, so we got what we got.

If you want more, you have to require more from yourself.

lol what? The team was terrible. They were out played and out coached in every aspect. They got beat on the last home game, fan appreciation day, with a packed house and I was there to witness. Trust me I'm not happy, or trying to offer some kumbaya bullshit if that's what your implying. I'm just glad that they didn't give up. They fought. It's just a wake up call that we're not there yet. For everyone. I didn't think this game was unwinnable, or that we had to play perfect to win. Far from it. I still believe that. A perfect storm of fuck ups and early turnovers took us out of it. I'm glad we have a coaching staff that can help our young team learn from their mistakes, and hopefully we can limit them in the future.

In closing, FUCK Dr. Phil.

In the ear.

 

[Warner4Prez]

The team fought and battled to the end. It sucks, but at least they didn't give up. Just a reality check and a wake up call. It should help us in the long run. Hopefully.

Hey thanks Dr Phil. :razzed:

I think this was one of those games that needed to be played close to perfect in order to win.
We played quite a bit less than perfect, so we got what we got.

If you want more, you have to require more from yourself.

lol what? The team was terrible. They were out played and out coached in every aspect. They got beat on the last home game, fan appreciation day, with a packed house and I was there to witness. Trust me I'm not happy, or trying to offer some kumbaya bullshit if that's what your implying. I'm just glad that they didn't give up. They fought. It's just a wake up call that we're not there yet. For everyone. I didn't think this game was unwinnable, or that we had to play perfect to win. Far from it. I still believe that. A perfect storm of fuck ups and early turnovers took us out of it. I'm glad we have a coaching staff that can help our young team learn from their mistakes, and hopefully we can limit them in the future.

In closing, FUCK Dr. Phil.

In the ear.

I feel ya, Mr. Name. It was my first Ram game, a bit of a disappointment. The early turnovers/sacks seemed to rattle Sam's cage. Saw him overlook some wide open shots after that, and the quality of his passes were a bit dodgy. Had they just eliminated one of those early turnovers, I think it'd be a bit different. They even could have overcome the Pick 6. The tides had turned in the 4th quarter and the Rams had all the momentum, just not enough time.

I was pissed at people streaming out the doors, guess that's their prerogative, but the people around us were awesome and didn't give up the whole game, which was great. I couldn't believe how great the seats we had were. I was in spitting distance of the d-line bench. Saw Torry Holt roaming the sidelines pre-game. Saw Michael Brockers at the sushi restaurant the night before the game.

Moral of the story: this team isn't that bad, but multiple mistakes are still too difficult for this offense to overcome. I'm moving to STL, and buying season tickets.

 

[Thordaddy]

The team fought and battled to the end. It sucks, but at least they didn't give up. Just a reality check and a wake up call. It should help us in the long run. Hopefully.

Hey thanks Dr Phil. :razzed:

I think this was one of those games that needed to be played close to perfect in order to win.
We played quite a bit less than perfect, so we got what we got.

If you want more, you have to require more from yourself.

Actually I have the reverse POV (big surprise huh?)
For me the breakdown came from trying to snuff the run instead of containing it, we were so intent on throwing AP for loses that when we didn't accomplish that he was off to the races.
IOW we were trying to be TOO perfect.
Seems that's when AP had the back breaking runs to me.