RamView, August 8, 2014, by Mike Franke

[Alan]

DR RAM supposing:
Pure luck.

And the 26 CBs chosen before him? All the teams had their evaluations of him and yet they all hose someone else. I'm pretty sure the CB crop in the draft wasn't that deep.

On the other hand, I didn't look at tape on any of them except Gaines. I only looked at Gaines because he's a Tiger and someone posted the video in the slack period.

 

[DR RAM]

And the 26 CBs chosen before him? All the teams had their evaluations of him and yet they all hose someone else. I'm pretty sure the CB crop in the draft wasn't that deep.

On the other hand, I didn't look at tape on any of them except Gaines. I only looked at Gaines because he's a Tiger and someone posted the video in the slack period.

Serious...we got lucky, as we did with Donald. Don't get hung up on draft status....doesn't mean a thing. E.J. can play.

 

[jrry32]

And the 26 CBs chosen before him? All the teams had their evaluations of him and yet they all hose someone else. I'm pretty sure the CB crop in the draft wasn't that deep.

On the other hand, I didn't look at tape on any of them except Gaines. I only looked at Gaines because he's a Tiger and someone posted the video in the slack period.

That's great and all but ultimately, it'll have no effect on whether he's successful or not in the NFL. That's on him. Being a 6th round pick means nothing. We've seen plenty of guys that went in the 6th, 7th and UDFA go on to become great players.

Will Gaines? Time will tell.

How does a guy like that fall and end up being successful? Because teams tend to focus too much at times on what a guy doesn't have compared to what he does have.

However, if I'm being honest, I just don't see Gaines being a great player at CB in our scheme. I think he'll be quality depth but I've always questioned if he has the feet to be a special CB. His feet always seemed a bit heavy to me in college which limited his short area quickness. But I've been wrong before. I do like him a lot as a safety. And I like him a lot in a C-3 heavy scheme at CB.

 

[Alan]

jjab360 talking a different language:
If you didn't see no.33 making plays all over the field, no offense but you weren't watching very closely. Gaines tackled very well all game long and even knocked a few balls out, though neither got called but one I know for certain should've been a forced fumble watching the replay from several different angles.

You probably jumped in in the middle of this because I think you missed the part where I said "wrap up tackle". Even if you use DR RAM's definition of a tackle that he just made, that still wouldn't constitute a "wrap up tackle".

I agree with everything you said in your post but it doesn't refute what I've been saying. As I said though, I didn't pay attention to everything he did and maybe one or more of his tackles was of the wrap up variety. That would be great but I'll believe it when I see it. I've got the game DVR'd and if you find one let know at what time it happened and I'll look for it.

 

[Alan]

DR RAM believing in Tyche:
Serious...we got lucky, as we did with Donald. Don't get hung up on draft status....doesn't mean a thing. E.J. can play.

Donald was a completely different case. No one passed him up for a different DT. He fell to us because the people above us had different needs and priorities. Quinn was an example of a lucky drop. Other DEs were picked before him but we got lucky that some teams could only think about his brain surgery.

Gaines fell because the teams that did need help at CB all evaluated other CBs ahead of him. I'm not sure how you could call that luck.

It's not the draft status that I get hung up on, it's the fact that so many people that know so much more than I do about judging CB talent passed him over for someone else. None of the standard reasons for why a great talent fell (like coming from a small unknown school) fits his case. Now if all those teams evaluated him incorrectly and he turns out to be better than about 15-20 of those guys then I'll agree we got lucky.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 slipping and sliding:
That's great and all but ultimately, it'll have no effect on whether he's successful or not in the NFL. That's on him. Being a 6th round pick means nothing. We've seen plenty of guys that went in the 6th, 7th and UDFA go on to become great players.

Will Gaines? Time will tell.

How does a guy like that fall and end up being successful? Because teams tend to focus too much at times on what a guy doesn't have compared to what he does have.

However, if I'm being honest, I just don't see Gaines being a great player at CB in our scheme. I think he'll be quality depth but I've always questioned if he has the feet to be a special CB. His feet always seemed a bit heavy to me in college which limited his short area quickness. But I've been wrong before. I do like him a lot as a safety. And I like him a lot in a C-3 heavy scheme at CB.

Can't disagree with any of that except that the black bolded part is a little too convenient isn't it? That's the kind of thing that works out no matter how good the player turns out to be.

Also, I can't disagree with the purple stuff because I have no clue what you're talking about. Sounds good though and I knew I didn't like him as a starter for some reason. I thought C-3 was an explosive.

 

[jjab360]

You probably jumped in in the middle of this because I think you missed the part where I said "wrap up tackle". Even if you use DR RAM's definition of a tackle that he just made, that still wouldn't constitute a "wrap up tackle".

I agree with everything you said in your post but it doesn't refute what I've been saying. As I said though, I didn't pay attention to everything he did and maybe one or more of his tackles was of the wrap up variety. That would be great but I'll believe it when I see it. I've got the game DVR'd and if you find one let know at what time it happened and I'll look for it.

I don't know about last night because I didn't record the game, but I can point you to several wrap up tackles he made in college if you want. Either way, I don't really see what you're getting at because the kid doesn't miss too many tackles no matter how he gets them down, it's always been a strength of his.

 

[RFIP]

For sure. I don't see how you can put that guy on the field.

Don't get me wrong, I think Gaines is a great 6th round pick. When I first talked about this I said he had good ball skills. Nothing he's done has changed that for me. But there are reasons he wasn't a high pick and those aren't just because he's a smurf and can be boxed out by all the bigger WRs/TEs. But a great get in the 6th for sure. Maybe a little better than I thought but still screams good back up. Looks to have a great chance of being one of the 53.

I don't buy in to this statement. Look where Sherman was drafted, and Grimes wasn't even drafted...and many others.

 

[Alan]

RFIP not playing the odds:
I don't buy in to this statement. Look where Sherman was drafted, and Grimes wasn't even drafted...and many others.

I read about people winning the lottery too. Doesn't mean I'm going to plan my retirement on that strategy. So you think you're a pretty good judge of talent right? When you make a mistake on a player (and we all do) does that mean you're not a good judge of talent? I think the teams that employ all those scouts/experts who decided there were better options than Gaines are still correct in their evaluations more often than not.

Nothing I've seen Gaines do is a surprise. Including his wiff on Cooks. Cooks looks to be the real deal so he's gonna make people miss. Problem with that is, the NFL is full of real deals and if a guy doesn't have basic tackling skills he's going to get beat more often than those who do. Maybe he can get coached up in that area. That would be great.

I see lots of talk about how this is only a preseason game and thus you shouldn't take our poor showing in some areas too seriously. Why doesn't that hold true for the good things we see too? He's a 3rd stringer playing against other 2nd and 3rd stringers.

I like your positive attitude though.