Rams sacks per attempt

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Anonymous

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...

This is about the DL and the potential built into the Rams sack percentage from last year.

Numbers are from Pro Football Outsiders.

They explain it how they do it:

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

Teams are ranked according to adjusted sack rate, which gives sacks (plus intentional grounding penalties) per pass attempt adjusted for down, distance, and opponent. Pass rush stats are explained further here.

There's a fuller explanation of "adjusted sack rate" here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2003/fun-sacks


Okay how did the Rams rank in 2011.

Team, Rank, Sacks, Adjusted Sack Rate

STL 8 39 7.5%


Now with that, consider (as PFO did) that the Rams weren't passed against that often. In fact, they were 5th in pass attempts against, which means of course that there were only 4 teams offenses threw against less than they threw against the Rams (with the Rams it was 484 attempts).

They did have Hall (although he too was banged up) and Long. Quinn did get on the field and contribute. Neverthless, they did that last year with some distinct disadvantages:

***

They accomplished that with:

* other teams virtually always having the lead and therefore the pure advantage in pass blocking

* a constantly revised cornerback position, meaning a long list of injuries like nothing anyone has ever seen in their entire history of watching the sport

* an over and done with Fred Robbins, who got banged up in camp and was never the same (Robbins was one of the main reasons the defense got better in 2010)

* a rookie Quinn who did not even play in 2010 and had no off-season in 2011 and then on top of it was banged up and out of shape in July and had to be kept off the field for the first couple of weeks of camp

* a rotten run defense (for a lot of reasons, including Robbins)


NOW?

* they are so deep at corner this year they need diving bells to do the depth chart

* DT...they loaded up against the run along the DL which ought to force more passing attempts....just a reminder, the roll call includes Langford, Brockers, Laws, and some possible candidates in returning (and returning healthier) guys and the UDFAs

* this is Fisher's luck again, but it turns out, Oakland is switching to a 3/4 so they let their legendary DL coach, Mike Waufle, go. He is assisted by Clyde Simmons, the great DE from the Buddy Ryan Eagles defense. That means everyone gets a chance to improve. It also means that some returning young vets and some UDFAs get a chance to learn the game from one of the 2-3 best there is.

* more about young vets. A reminder about Fisher and DTs. Fisher's Titans had a REMARKABLE hit percentage drafting DTs. That's detailed here: http://www.theramshuddle.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42803&p=273660&hilit=starks+fisk+thornton#p273660... With the Rams, the prospects are abundant. It's not only Brockers and Langford, it includes other young vets and new prospects. To name them, it's (at DE) Hayes, Jarrett, Quinn, Sims, and Smith, and (at DT) Banks, Conrath, Cudjo, Laws, and Scott. Both Cudjo and Scott were banged up last year. Laws comes with a good rep as a young developing vet. Now anyone can just list new names. But remember, guys signed with the Rams BECAUSE OF Waufle. That means they got their pick of the better UDFAs and young FAs like Laws. The key? Fisher has always had a knack for finding them plus Waufle REALLY DOES PRODUCE. So that mix is going to produce SOMETHING, sooner or later. It won't be all camp names and then cut and forgotten.


***

So....LAST YEAR, with major disadvantages, the Rams ranked high in sacks per attempt. THIS YEAR they addressed the disadvantages, including run defense, plus brought in a very productive (actually, legendary) DL coach to upgrade all along the line. They did not lose last year's advantages and gained strengths on top of it.

They're still relatively young, though.

Still. Whether it's in Year One of the Fisher Calendar or not, they ARE going to make a DL out of that bunch.
 

steferfootball

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X said:
steferfootball said:
FWIW, In terms of blitzing schemes, we have down graded.
How so?
We went from Steve Spagnuolo, one of the best minds in the NFL at generating pass rush to Jeff Fisher who runs a more well rounded defense. We have some good players in place, but the blitzing scheme is a huge reason for many of the numbers above. I think the fact that he got such a talentless group of guys to be this efficient speaks to his prowess.
 

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steferfootball said:
X said:
steferfootball said:
FWIW, In terms of blitzing schemes, we have down graded.
How so?
We went from Steve Spagnuolo, one of the best minds in the NFL at generating pass rush to Jeff Fisher who runs a more well rounded defense. We have some good players in place, but the blitzing scheme is a huge reason for many of the numbers above. I think the fact that he got such a talentless group of guys to be this efficient speaks to his prowess.

Huh???
 

steferfootball

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Faceplant said:
steferfootball said:
X said:
steferfootball said:
FWIW, In terms of blitzing schemes, we have down graded.
How so?
We went from Steve Spagnuolo, one of the best minds in the NFL at generating pass rush to Jeff Fisher who runs a more well rounded defense. We have some good players in place, but the blitzing scheme is a huge reason for many of the numbers above. I think the fact that he got such a talentless group of guys to be this efficient speaks to his prowess.

Huh???
I'm not sure what you are confused about tbh.

But there are two aspects to the sentence, so I guess I'll address both.

Firstly is the talentless part. Our front seven had two, perhaps three players I'd be happy with starting on a team. JL, Long, and perhaps Quinn or Hall. The secondary was starting Justin King, along with a host of other people I don't remember. Defensively, we were pretty depleted. Nothing exactly ground breaking though.

Secondly is the efficiency part. I think perhaps my use of the term efficiency may have thrown you. Efficiency implies some sort of division. In this case, sacks/defensive passing attempts, not efficiency as a term used to generally describe a defense.

So given how cruddy our front seven was, and our sack:defensive passing ratio, I do think that speaks to spag's defensive mind.
 

Username

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steferfootball said:
X said:
steferfootball said:
FWIW, In terms of blitzing schemes, we have down graded.
How so?
We went from Steve Spagnuolo, one of the best minds in the NFL at generating pass rush to Jeff Fisher who runs a more well rounded defense. We have some good players in place, but the blitzing scheme is a huge reason for many of the numbers above. I think the fact that he got such a talentless group of guys to be this efficient speaks to his prowess.

Everything I've heard from the players and coaches about this defense is that it's extremely aggressive. Williams had some pretty exotic blitzes in NO. Not taking anything away from Spags or his scheme, but I think we'll be just fine on defense.
 

Memento

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steferfootball said:
Firstly is the talentless part. Our front seven had two, perhaps three players I'd be happy with starting on a team. JL, Long, and perhaps Quinn or Hall. The secondary was starting Justin King, along with a host of other people I don't remember. Defensively, we were pretty depleted. Nothing exactly ground breaking though.

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this at all. Quintin Mikell was a borderline All-Pro free safety last year, and I'm more than comfortable with Darian Stewart starting at strong safety.

And perhaps Quinn? Only perhaps? The only reason he wasn't starting over Hall was because Spags did not trust him over Hall. Talent wasn't the issue with Quinn; it was experience.

Just my two cents.
 

Anonymous

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steferfootball said:
X said:
steferfootball said:
FWIW, In terms of blitzing schemes, we have down graded.
How so?
We went from Steve Spagnuolo, one of the best minds in the NFL at generating pass rush to Jeff Fisher who runs a more well rounded defense. We have some good players in place, but the blitzing scheme is a huge reason for many of the numbers above. I think the fact that he got such a talentless group of guys to be this efficient speaks to his prowess.

But it WASN'T "talentless."

9 of the 39 sacks came from Chamberlain, Laurinaitis, Mikkel, and Stewart. They have talent.

The DL, in the form of Hall, Quinn, Gibson, Ah You, Robbins, and Long generated 29 of the sacks or about 75% of the sacks.

His schemes were great but he also schemed the DL and took advantage of rotations. There was talent on that DL though...with the decline of Robbins, mostly at end.

The CBs had talent before the season started and they ended up with 10 injuries at the position.
 

Anonymous

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Memento said:
steferfootball said:
Firstly is the talentless part. Our front seven had two, perhaps three players I'd be happy with starting on a team. JL, Long, and perhaps Quinn or Hall. The secondary was starting Justin King, along with a host of other people I don't remember. Defensively, we were pretty depleted. Nothing exactly ground breaking though.

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this at all. Quintin Mikell was a borderline All-Pro free safety last year, and I'm more than comfortable with Darian Stewart starting at strong safety.

And perhaps Quinn? Only perhaps? The only reason he wasn't starting over Hall was because Spags did not trust him over Hall. Talent wasn't the issue with Quinn; it was experience.

Just my two cents.

You're right, Quinn wasn't ready. Had little or nothing to do with trust. Hall was a good one. Kind of a no contest.
 

steferfootball

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It seems I have sparked some conversation. :lol:

Username said:
steferfootball said:
X said:
steferfootball said:
FWIW, In terms of blitzing schemes, we have down graded.
How so?
We went from Steve Spagnuolo, one of the best minds in the NFL at generating pass rush to Jeff Fisher who runs a more well rounded defense. We have some good players in place, but the blitzing scheme is a huge reason for many of the numbers above. I think the fact that he got such a talentless group of guys to be this efficient speaks to his prowess.

Everything I've heard from the players and coaches about this defense is that it's extremely aggressive. Williams had some pretty exotic blitzes in NO. Not taking anything away from Spags or his scheme, but I think we'll be just fine on defense.
That is true. The saints were aggressive, but that doesn't mean they were effective.

For instance, using the metric of Defensive pass attempts:Sacks last year the Saints were 28th in the league, where the Rams were 7th.

Memento said:
steferfootball said:
Firstly is the talentless part. Our front seven had two, perhaps three players I'd be happy with starting on a team. JL, Long, and perhaps Quinn or Hall. The secondary was starting Justin King, along with a host of other people I don't remember. Defensively, we were pretty depleted. Nothing exactly ground breaking though.

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this at all. Quintin Mikell was a borderline All-Pro free safety last year, and I'm more than comfortable with Darian Stewart starting at strong safety.

And perhaps Quinn? Only perhaps? The only reason he wasn't starting over Hall was because Spags did not trust him over Hall. Talent wasn't the issue with Quinn; it was experience.

Just my two cents.
My apologies, I meant cornerback.

Yes perhaps Quinn. Why? Because this is 2011 we are talking about. He didn't have that experience then. I agreed with the decision then and now.
 

Anonymous

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steferfootball said:
That is true. The saints were aggressive, but that doesn't mean they were effective.

For instance, using the metric of Defensive pass attempts:Sacks last year the Saints were 28th in the league, where the Rams were 7th.

Yet much of that is because the Rams had more talent at DE than the Saints did.

Look, I really liked the Spags D. But he didn't manufacture a pass rush out of nothing. He had a pass rush.

Rams DEs all combined account for 25 sacks on 484 attempts, or 1 per 19.36 attempts.

Saints DEs combined account for 15 sacks on 626 attempts, or 1 per 41.7 attempts.

Bearing in mind that the Saints D was virtually always playing from ahead while the Rams D was virtually always playing from behind, that says a lot.

If the Rams D had the Saints pass attempt numbers, the DEs alone would have 32-33 sacks.

If the Saints D had the Rams pass attempt numbers, the DEs alone would have 11-12 sacks.
 

Username

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The Saints blitzed so much because they sucked so bad it was the only way they could pressure the QB. The Rams won't have that problem. With the revamped secondary and the line, we don't have to push it.

Make no mistake though, this defense will be designed to get to the quarterback. I can say that with certainty.
 

Username

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This defense is said to give players more freedom to make plays too. Something that I think will benefit all the high caliber talent.

And on the flip side I like Spags system for the Saints too. A unit that is lacking in talent can really gain from a more structured "role" based system.
 

Memento

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steferfootball said:
Memento said:
steferfootball said:
Firstly is the talentless part. Our front seven had two, perhaps three players I'd be happy with starting on a team. JL, Long, and perhaps Quinn or Hall. The secondary was starting Justin King, along with a host of other people I don't remember. Defensively, we were pretty depleted. Nothing exactly ground breaking though.

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this at all. Quintin Mikell was a borderline All-Pro free safety last year, and I'm more than comfortable with Darian Stewart starting at strong safety.

And perhaps Quinn? Only perhaps? The only reason he wasn't starting over Hall was because Spags did not trust him over Hall. Talent wasn't the issue with Quinn; it was experience.

Just my two cents.
My apologies, I meant cornerback.

Yes perhaps Quinn. Why? Because this is 2011 we are talking about. He didn't have that experience then. I agreed with the decision then and now.

Ah, understood. It's fine. And I can see why you would say that about Quinn's experience. But talent-wise, he was already capable of starting. I can see why Spags trusted Hall over Quinn as well; you want to trust in the vet who has given so much to the team.
 

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Username said:
This defense is said to give players more freedom to make plays too.
Yeah, that's what Chris Long said. It was interesting the phrasing he used too.

"We're going to be a lot more vertical."
 

RamFan503

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X said:
Username said:
This defense is said to give players more freedom to make plays too.
Yeah, that's what Chris Long said. It was interesting the phrasing he used too.

"We're going to be a lot more vertical."

Yeah - Didn't he kinda smirk when he said that too? This D could be very fun to watch.