Rams 2015 Defensive "Big Safety Base" trending more play?

[thirteen28]

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/st.-louis-rams/mark-barron/

Mark Barron signed a 4 year / $14,465,000 contract with the Tampa Bay in 2012 . St. Louis Rams assumed that contract. Barron base in 2015 is $2,362,000 mil that's the total 2015 cap hit. Barron is slated to enter UFA in 2016.

Thanks. I was too lazy to look it up.

 

[Alan]

BonifayRam thinking hybrid:
Or just a passing event left on the field in 2014? If so the Rams sure are loaded with a large amount of safeties in which most are larger strong safety types.

After 2014's DC Gregg Williams return marriage with Jeff Fisher caused a big change to the amount of size & talent that came in @ safety. Not sure if the early injuries to CB's Johnson, McGee, Jenkins, then later in the season Joyner & Gaines were the main effect????...... but we all saw a large use of Big Safeties over the second half of the season. I thought this mega use of safeties proved to have a positive impact over the later half of the season am I wrong? Are the Rams trending in the increase of the base defense & many styles of Nickles in the play of many safeties?

Rams in the 2014 draft brought youth & talent into the secondary. Grasping using a 2nd, 4th, 6th, 7th rd selections on DB's. Joyner was primarily a safety who can play both free & Strong Safety & secondarily Joyner is a Nickle. Mo.Alexander is a little both OLB & SS combo. Gaines is strictly a corner. Christian Bryant is a Strong Safety. After this youthful injection of the above 4 DB's .....Snead continued adding large DB's drafted early using his 2015 draft 4th & 6th selections to secure former 2012 First Rd. top seven pick Strong Safety Mark Barron.

Current Rams secondary is seriously youthful. An accumulative cadre of 9 draft selections since 2012 of a first, 2 -seconds,2-thirds,4th,5th,6th,7th rd picks & two quality UDFA's (Davis & Roberson). Bottom line Gregg erased the use of the 3rd Lb'er from the starting defense & used a safety in various ways in place of it. LB Dunbar did see the field in Goal Line defenses & in relief of JL & Tree but rarely seen on the field in a standard base 4-3-4 defense after the trade of Barron. At the same time I see many posters here have LB'ers as a big need in this upcoming draft?

I sure would like to hear some of you guys thoughts on this & what to expect this trend to affect the 2015 draft & what the defense will look more like this upcoming season.

Good stuff Bonifay.

I'm in that group who still thinks we have a big need for another LB. What you say is true but I have a few questions. Has Williams been forced to the three safety D because of what we have at Dunbars position and the trade for Barron or is it because it's a great way to do it. Has he ever done this before and if so when and with what success?

Our D was improving greatly before the acquisition of Barron. Mainly having to do with familiarity with the new system and Ogletree playing so poorly early on. Plus not starting Donald from the get go. So I'm not sure if this three safety stuff is as good as 2 Ss and 3 LBs. Maybe it is. I'm willing to be convinced either way.

It's #5 on my last after OG, QB, OC, OT not necessarily in that order.

 

[BonifayRam]

Good stuff Bonifay.
I'm in that group who still thinks we have a big need for another LB. What you say is true but I have a few questions. Has Williams been forced to the three safety D because of what we have at Dunbars position and the trade for Barron or is it because it's a great way to do it. Has he ever done this before and if so when and with what success?

Our D was improving greatly before the acquisition of Barron. Mainly having to do with familiarity with the new system and Ogletree playing so poorly early on. Plus not starting Donald from the get go. So I'm not sure if this three safety stuff is as good as 2 Ss and 3 LBs. Maybe it is. I'm willing to be convinced either way.
It's #5 on my last after OG, QB, OC, OT not necessarily in that order.

Happy New Year Alan, we got another one of those year things under our large belts.

Since Fisher's arrival his defense plays a good part of the time with only 2 LB'ers on the field. I suspect the Rams will keep Dunbar in 2015 he will not cost much only $1,125,520 mil. cap hit. Ideally Dunbar is a very good reserve who can be plugged into any starting LB'er post. Rams have Bates locked up in 2015. They also like UFA vet. Will Herring who is an outstanding ST'mer along with JL & Tree. Snead also resigned 1st yr LBer McFadden, that's six there for basically 2 starting positions. Its still iffy if Mo. Alexander will remain a safety & not end up @ OLB'er. Mo Alexander came into TC at 222 pounds no telling how much bigger Mo will be this 2015 TC. The only real Lb'er I'm crazy about is Denzel Perryman, U of Miami. If this MLB'er is there around early third rd. #72 I taking him fast.

If you recall when Snead moved on safety Barron just after the KC game. In that KC game they lost both free safeties. Rodney sprained his knee & Davis suffered a concussion. The KC game is also the same game where Fishers starting CB's were rookies (Roberson & Gaines). Jenkins/McGee/Johnson were out injured. So it was unknown who was going to be their starting free safety. So injuries had to figure into it.

I sure like your list of needs. I thinking a ORT/swing OT, two OG's the rest QB's.

 

[Alan]

BonifayRam wanting competition:
the rest QB's.

You didn't say but do you know if Williams has ever done anything similar and do you think we should keep doing that going forward?

Happy New Year to you too! :banana: :cheers:

 

[LACHAMP46]

I've seen the "big nickle" package in one other team, The Saints last year...Someone wrote on it....may have been MMQB not sure...I think a few teams used it in '13 & '14....
So, great read @BonifayRam and it got me thinking...I'd prefer we find a OLB, as this 3 safety package early in the down seems to leave us weak against the run. It also makes us weak against quality passing offenses. It seems to only work well when the blitz is getting home...
I am of the opinion that TJ can be effective as the primary FS...I also would like to see Barron as an every down player. And of course, I wanna see what Mo Alexander can do...Not sure if he can play FS or not.....Hopefully he'll play like Barron did, get on the field in multiple packages.
I am of the belief that McLeod will not be re-signed, nor will he be missed......

 

[BonifayRam]

I've seen the "big nickle" package in one other team, The Saints last year...Someone wrote on it....may have been MMQB not sure...I think a few teams used it in '13 & '14....
So, great read @BonifayRam and it got me thinking...I'd prefer we find a OLB, as this 3 safety package early in the down seems to leave us weak against the run. It also makes us weak against quality passing offenses. It seems to only work well when the blitz is getting home...
I am of the opinion that TJ can be effective as the primary FS...I also would like to see Barron as an every down player. And of course, I wanna see what Mo Alexander can do...Not sure if he can play FS or not.....Hopefully he'll play like Barron did, get on the field in multiple packages.
I am of the belief that McLeod will not be re-signed, nor will he be missed......

I am not close to where TJ played his college ball as you but was not TJ McDonald moved into the exclusively Lb'er/rover hybrid/Robber position in his senior season? I had read many times this was done in order to protect USC's defense after his play during a half dozen games was .....real bad in deep coverage.

I also understand that he was used deep early in his USC career but as he matured & got bigger he never returned to it. I also have seen clips/tubes @ USC where TJ has shown over & over again he just does not have the needed flexibility to turn-and-run with better receivers and tight ends if he were to play deep. Am I way off here LACHAMP46?

It's just me but I just love the way TJ plays the strong safety post for Gregg Williams. I would hate to see him placed into another post where he would not be as effective. I was off the opinion that TJ McDonald was playing strong safety at near pro bowl level over the latter half of the 2014 season.

I still of the opinion that Gregg Williams will depend on this past seasons three young Free/Deep Safeties in:
#1- Resigned 2014 & 2013's starting FS Rodney McLeod entering his 4th yr.
#2-Cody Davis who entering his 3rd season & has played in 27 regular season games. Cody is the Rams fastest safety by far 4.37 in the 40 yd dash & also has the best vertical jump of all our DB's
#3-Lamarcus Joyner who will enter his 2nd season where he played in 10 Ram games & started one. Joyner to me would fit better @ free safety so his opportunistic talents & his skills shown in college to make big & produced timely, game-changing plays.

 

[LACHAMP46]

I am not close to where TJ played his college ball as you but was not TJ McDonald moved into the exclusively Lb'er/rover hybrid/Robber position in his senior season? I had read many times this was done in order to protect USC's defense after his play during a half dozen games was .....real bad in deep coverage.

TJ was primarily the FS as a freshman and sophomore....He was moved more "in the box" as a Jr. & Sr. possibly due to Monty Kiffin and that damned Tampa 2 defense....As a Jr. he was OK, and as a Sr. he had what I would consider one of his worst college years on a terrible Trojan defense...They may have been overwhelmed with the concepts & differing responsibility...But to your point, He was/is a phenomenal athlete, and it really showed. Even as a FS.

I also understand that he was used deep early in his USC career but as he matured & got bigger he never returned to it. I also have seen clips/tubes @ USC where TJ has shown over & over again he just does not have the needed flexibility to turn-and-run with better receivers and tight ends if he were to play deep. Am I way off here LACHAMP46?

I do see trouble with his man cover skills in the change of direction....I do believe FS is a position where man cover opportunities should be rare, and he needs to watch the deep 3rd. and mirror the QB....I'd still like to see if he could do it....

It's just me but I just love the way TJ plays the strong safety post for Gregg Williams. I would hate to see him placed into another post where he would not be as effective.

He was playing at a high level in most games....I too, have these same fears, why move him when he's just starting to play SS so well....It is a dilemma, and one I hope can be solved by the premise, the safeties are interchangeable, that is, TJ will remain in the box some, and so will Barron. And they will both play FS...when the rotations call for it....I just think two dynamic players need to be on the field as much as possible, whereas McLeod with the constant mistakes & missed tackles doesn't need to be considered.
As far as Cody Davis...that tackle vs KC....against a back out of Arkansas, Knile Davis, told me all I already knew about him...Not physical enough. Same with Joyner...just too small.
I'd much rather see Mo Alexander get his shot in 2015...maybe in a role similar to Mark Barron...Maybe at the FS...Just stay deep, come up and tackle...Catch a few ducks that should float out there with Quinn, Donald, & Long rushing....

 

[-X-]

Or just a passing event left on the field in 2014? If so the Rams sure are loaded with a large amount of safeties in which most are larger strong safety types.

After 2014's DC Gregg Williams return marriage with Jeff Fisher caused a big change to the amount of size & talent that came in @ safety. Not sure if the early injuries to CB's Johnson, McGee, Jenkins, then later in the season Joyner & Gaines were the main effect????...... but we all saw a large use of Big Safeties over the second half of the season. I thought this mega use of safeties proved to have a positive impact over the later half of the season am I wrong? Are the Rams trending in the increase of the base defense & many styles of Nickles in the play of many safeties?

Rams in the 2014 draft brought youth & talent into the secondary. Grasping using a 2nd, 4th, 6th, 7th rd selections on DB's. Joyner was primarily a safety who can play both free & Strong Safety & secondarily Joyner is a Nickle. Mo.Alexander is a little both OLB & SS combo. Gaines is strictly a corner. Christian Bryant is a Strong Safety. After this youthful injection of the above 4 DB's .....Snead continued adding large DB's drafted early using his 2015 draft 4th & 6th selections to secure former 2012 First Rd. top seven pick Strong Safety Mark Barron.

Current Rams secondary is seriously youthful. An accumulative cadre of 9 draft selections since 2012 of a first, 2 -seconds,2-thirds,4th,5th,6th,7th rd picks & two quality UDFA's (Davis & Roberson). Bottom line Gregg erased the use of the 3rd Lb'er from the starting defense & used a safety in various ways in place of it. LB Dunbar did see the field in Goal Line defenses & in relief of JL & Tree but rarely seen on the field in a standard base 4-3-4 defense after the trade of Barron. At the same time I see many posters here have LB'ers as a big need in this upcoming draft?

I sure would like to hear some of you guys thoughts on this & what to expect this trend to affect the 2015 draft & what the defense will look more like this upcoming season.

Good post, Bon, and spot on. I think you'll see more variations of the Buddy Ryan 4-6 defense with some 5-1-5 nickel personnel groupings as Williams gets a handle on who he has and what they can do best. Took him half the year to figure out what everyone was capable of, and that's when you saw the safeties become more involved, as well as a marked improvement in what Ogletree could do/was doing. Dude's almost a safety himself at times, so he's gives GW a lot of latitude. He was able to turn Roman Harper into a two-time Pro Bowler as well, so versatility, I think, is more key to him than what a player is designated as. If you're a LB who can effectively blitz and effectively read/cover your square, then you're a safety by all accounts in his system too. Same thing with safeties who can crash and tackle well. Just as good as a LB to him and just as versatile. So to answer your question, I think he'd be okay if they drafted a linebacker, and just as fine with integrating the safeties more into the gameplan instead. If you can do what's needed at the position (whichever it is), then you'll have a place on the team and make your way up his performance charts.

 

[BonifayRam]

TJ was primarily the FS as a freshman and sophomore....He was moved more "in the box" as a Jr. & Sr. possibly due to Monty Kiffin and that damned Tampa 2 defense....As a Jr. he was OK, and as a Sr. he had what I would consider one of his worst college years on a terrible Trojan defense...They may have been overwhelmed with the concepts & differing responsibility...But to your point, He was/is a phenomenal athlete, and it really showed. Even as a FS.

I do see trouble with his man cover skills in the change of direction....I do believe FS is a position where man cover opportunities should be rare, and he needs to watch the deep 3rd. and mirror the QB....I'd still like to see if he could do it....

He was playing at a high level in most games....I too, have these same fears, why move him when he's just starting to play SS so well....It is a dilemma, and one I hope can be solved by the premise, the safeties are interchangeable, that is, TJ will remain in the box some, and so will Barron. And they will both play FS...when the rotations call for it....I just think two dynamic players need to be on the field as much as possible, whereas McLeod with the constant mistakes & missed tackles doesn't need to be considered.
As far as Cody Davis...that tackle vs KC....against a back out of Arkansas, Knile Davis, told me all I already knew about him...Not physical enough. Same with Joyner...just too small.
I'd much rather see Mo Alexander get his shot in 2015...maybe in a role similar to Mark Barron...Maybe at the FS...Just stay deep, come up and tackle...Catch a few ducks that should float out there with Quinn, Donald, & Long rushing....

Hey LACHAMP46, since most of your concerns are at the free /deep safety post.....Since it appears that Gaines had beat TJ Johnson out of is CB post to be teamed with JJ & with McGee/Joyner/Roberson available for some relief work @ CB.....Could Fisher/Williams rethink Johnson's ability to take his lanky long 6-2 210 pound frame deep? Does seem that all those big tall WR's are on their way out of the western division.

If you take time & go look @ the 2012 DB prospects comments you will find many believed that Trumaine Johnson was thought in the NFL best post was more free safety than outside corner. Have any thoughts on that? Would a overall cadre unit of McLeod, Davis, Joyner, Johnson make you feel a bit better?

 

[LACHAMP46]

Could Fisher/Williams rethink Johnson's ability to take his lanky long 6-2 210 pound frame deep? Does seem that all those big tall WR's are on their way out of the western division.

Not sure if Snisher sees Tru as a safety...In fact, I've read some quotes saying Tru is a corner...and I've never seen the tackling ability in him to say he'd blossom at safety...

Would a overall cadre unit of McLeod, Davis, Joyner, Johnson make you feel a bit better?

I don't see starter potential in C. Davis....McLeod is a great ST'er, and looks like a great backup/role-player. Joyner is too small to play safety at this time...I actually like him in the slot. Again, I really don't see Tru as a safety...Doubt Fisher does too....