RAMdom Thoughts

[wolfman84]

I’ve been listening to all the comments coming from the Rams leadership over the past month and attempting to read between the lines. Sometimes what’s not said is as important as what is. The trouble with trying to read between the lines is figuring out which lines are BS or even intentionally misleading.
“We want all our free agents back.” I’m sure we do, as long as we don’t have to pay them anything. Jackson and Amendola are priority resigns but overpaying either would set us back. We all love Jax and I truly believe he wants to retire as a Ram and “not on a 10 day contract”. What’s not being said is that we may be perfectly willing to let him pursue a championship with another club, say Atlanta, on a high dollar, one year deal, and then resign him to a cheaper one or two year deal in 2014. That’s a savings of $7mil. Releasing Mikell after June 1st allows us to split his $6mil bonus money over two season, freeing $6mil this year. The highest cap figure I’ve seen for us(prior to the recent increase) is that we are $3mil over it. Combine these numbers and we suddenly have $10 mil available ($13,mil with the recent increase). That’s a familiar number. “Maybe more”. Releasing Hunter frees up to $4mil. Same for Harvey Dahl. I don’t know how much of that they would still be due. I believe Dahl is has a $500,000 bonus in 2014 and Hunter has a $50,000 bonus due in 2013 and 2014. Anyway the available cap space numbers start to make sense. I don’t believe Harvey will get released because it creates another hole in the starting lineup and sends a bad message to potential free agent targets. Same could be said for Mikell but he’s due $9mil and that too big a hit.
Now lets assume Jackson and Amendola sign elsewhere and we release Hunter and Mikell. That leaves us about $17mil. Our draft class will cost about $7mil. That leaves about $8mil for free agents if you want a $2mil buffer to add players during the year due to injury.
Now how to go about filling the holes in the roster. It would be nice to have Danny back but it’s beginning to look like someone will over pay him. Of our needs, the most expensive FA positions would be WR and OT. Either one would eat up the bulk, if not all, of our available cash. The same money could be used to fill multiple needs at other, less costly, positions such as OLB, S, and OG. Add to that Fisher’s comment on the lack of depth at OLB in the draft and I think these become our FA targets along with resigning Hayes.
Remaining open spots in the starting lineup will have to be filled in the first half of the draft. Depth at other spots addressed in the last half and undrafted free agents.
This is all, obviously, conjecture on my part. Feel free to shoot holes in it.

 

[F. Mulder]

I honestly believe any money saved or created by said cuts should be used for resigning Hayes and Turner. There are really NO OL available who are any good or aren't overpriced. If you want OL you need to draft them or develop what you have. No way do you sign a Safety IMO. You could potentially pick up both starting safeties in this draft ((yes, it's scary). Same goes for LB. You have 2 set LBers in JL and Dunbar. You need a LBer who can run and/or blitz. There are several in rounds 3-5.

Hayes is a borderline starting NFL player and Turner can play Center or Guard as a top sub, which beats throwing a rookie in there.

I will NOT jump off a bridge if Jackson leaves and will be ok if Danny A leaves IF they add another playing WR and/or TE to the mix. I think some of the problems with this offense is it is hindered by both of them via Sam and scheme.

But what do I know, I've had a vodka or two. :lmao:

 

[rams24/7]

Don't forget the cap is up $2.6 mill from 2012 :bg:

 

[BonifayRam]

I honestly believe any money saved or created by said cuts should be used for resigning Hayes and Turner. There are really NO OL available who are any good or aren't overpriced. If you want OL you need to draft them or develop what you have. No way do you sign a Safety IMO. You could potentially pick up both starting safeties in this draft ((yes, it's scary). Same goes for LB. You have 2 set LBers in JL and Dunbar. You need a LBer who can run and/or blitz. There are several in rounds 3-5.

Hayes is a borderline starting NFL player and Turner can play Center or Guard as a top sub, which beats throwing a rookie in there.

I will NOT jump off a bridge if Jackson leaves and will be ok if Danny A leaves IF they add another playing WR and/or TE to the mix. I think some of the problems with this offense is it is hindered by both of them via Sam and scheme.

But what do I know, I've had a vodka or two. :lmao:

I would aim first & be determined to lock up Hayes long term do to the current DL situation. The ongoing issues with Quinn in containment & run defense and reserve material after Langford & Brockers. I do not consider Hayes borderline after the great all around performance he produced playing every DL position known to mankind! Hayes had enough talent to play all four posts on a 43 defense then played all three DL position when we went into the 34 defense including the NT post. Most all pro's can not do that!

I would also keep up with strong safety Darian Stewart who is a Ram RFA its unknown if the Rams will tie him up @ the lower end of the mandated by pay of a RFA -$1.33 million which is high for him or make him an offer to start in place of the released Mikell as starter and a 3 yr contract for a lower cost of 2 1/2 mil see if he bites. Darian started 15 games for us in 2011 @ both safety posts and did very well. Early injuries took him out of play in 2012. if his knee is sound then he offers the Rams a young 24 yr old SS who can fill the hole left by Mikell. key here he is young and could prove to be a wise save here. Rams can save 3 mil cap space & 6 mil cap space in 2014 in releasing Mikell, this total 9 mill can be used to purchase UFA DL Hayes & Stewart with some left over.

Robert Turner is really easy to replaced as the 7th Ram Ol'er or even if you consider him one of the 5 starters where he would be inserted back into OLG. Last yrs 6 game starter OLG & ORG back up by Shelley Smith could fill Turners internal OL post back up role could he not? Rams also have Rok Watkins & Brandon Washington signed so there is clearly no need there @ back up OG. The back up @ Center last yr on the Rams 53 man rooster was 2nd yr center Tim Barnes who is a ERFA meaning he is ours cheaply. He has been a Ram now for two straight seasons in 2011 he was on the PS. Another fact Mulder is Shelley Smith was known in college as a center even though he never had to play it because he was a long time starter @ OLG in Colorado He really does have center capabilities he ran OC in practice some early last season when he first arrived as a Ram. As a Texan he also worked some @ center. Robert Turner will be 29 this season has 6 NFL seasons under his belt & will most likely wants a starters position after starting 16 games & hears what concerns me he will want starters pay. I concentrated a lot on Turner yes he could get better with more game experience but he a much better center than OLG. Rams need to build a better pocket for Sam Turner just does not get that done @ OLG.

If I were going to spend what few Ram cap pennies I have in my pocket for an OLer it would be on a Swing offensive OT product. I would want Wayne Hunter back after we release him. IMO that's where the issues are at. We need big upgrades in the performance @ OLG & ORT plus a OT capable of swinging due to ongoing issues @ OLT post with Saffold. Turner does not fit into that need does he?

 

[BonifayRam]

“We want all our free agents back.”
Standard PR line by all Orgs.!

I’m sure we do, as long as we don’t have to pay them anything. Jackson and Amendola are priority resigns...
Facts are what they are Rams can not & will not pay their asking price ....end of story time to move on.

overpaying either would set us back.
You are one of the few ROD'ers that live in the real world this is so true Rams must be forward leaning @ all times... failure is in our Ram history where the Rams have done this often and very badly failure follows, Rams do not gamble well in UFA's. We are still digging out of many UFA mistakes to this very minute!

Rams have currently have That’s a savings of $7mil. now they are not going to return #39 $$ back to him.


Releasing Mikell after June 1st allows us to split his $6mil bonus money over two season, freeing $6mil this year. The highest cap figure I’ve seen for us(prior to the recent increase) is that we are $3mil over it. Combine these numbers and we suddenly have $10 mil available ($13,mil with the recent increase). Yes the Rams have 13 million on the books for Mikell for 2013 & 2014 seasons. 10 million is in cap space for 2013/14. The Org is plain stupid if they use all those millions in a old in the box strong safety!

Releasing Hunter frees up to $4mil. Yes that's 3.95 million that will need to free up however I see great need of Wayne Hunter not because he is so great of a player but its the ongoing serious continued injury epidemic of OLT Saffold. His multiple injuries the last two seasons have hurt this team greatly. Rams were lucky having Wayne here for the first six games when Saffold missed chunks...Rams in those 6 games played 500 ball. In 2011 Rams lost all the games when Saffold went out that BIG! release your Swing OT depending on a Ty Nsekhe or Barksdale got us nothing but losses! Think we need to think OLT? Sam needs a pocket!


Same for Harvey Dahl. I don’t know how much of that they would still be due. I believe Dahl is has a $500,000 bonus in 2014 and Hunter has a $50,000 bonus due in 2013 and 2014.

On Harvey we could be real smart here. I could see Demoff & Snead making an offer to him redo his current contract that ends in 2014. Harvey will cost 8 mil for his services in 2013 & 2014. Rams could offer him a four yr contract making him a UFA in 2017 when he will be 35 yrs old for about 10 to 11 million but with guarantees basically cutting your costs @ ORG in half for the next 4 yrs :box: . Harvey brings a touch of class to the Ram OL. he is a very young 32 yrs old now. Harvey has shown that he can start and play well @ ORT too. But if Harvey does not want to play then cut him and you get $8 million in cap space for 2013/2014. Note; Me thinks Rok Watkins will make a very good ORG much better than OLG IMO.

Now lets assume Jackson and Amendola sign elsewhere and we release Hunter and Mikell. That leaves us about $17mil. Our draft class will cost about $7mil. That leaves about $8mil for free agents if you want a $2mil buffer to add players during the year due to injury.

You release Mikell,Hunter,Harvey Dahl and do not sign Jackson & Amendola Demoff, Snead & Fisher have just freed up 29 million in cap space in 2013/2014 in those above moves alone!


Feel free to shoot holes in it. Why you are making perfect sense to me.

The main goal & priority is on the offensive side of the ball with building a pocket for your biggest investment in Sam Bradford all else is secondary. Rams have paid out big in the defense with big contracts & long time investment in Cortland Finnegan, Chris Long, Kendall Langford & James Lauriniatis Those four are being paid to pull the load. The last two first round picks were DL'ers. The 2012 second day of the draft brought Fisher CB's, WR's & RB's now is the time to invest in building Sam's pocket & get some talented OL'ers!

 

[fearsomefour]

""Rams also have Rok Watkins & Brandon Washington signed so there is clearly no need there @ back up OG. The back up @ Center last yr on the Rams 53 man rooster was 2nd yr center Tim Barnes who is a ERFA meaning he is ours cheaply.""

None of these guy have proven they can play well for extended periods. If the difference in bringing Turner back is a couple of hundred grand then it is a no brainer in my estimation. I have never seen Washington. Smith was solid and the fact that he has played some C is interesting. I am sure he is bigger than his listed weight now, but, he still got pushed around a few times when he did play last year. He also had, at least that I remember, one very solid game. I am hoping for Rok to develop and the coaches may be seeing a totally different guy at this time, but, what we saw in limited action was a guy who got over his toes too much, couldnt stay healthy and couldnt be bothered to show up in shape. It does not make sense to me to dump both guys (Harvery and Turner) that played most of our games at G for what amounts to not much savings....at least this year. If there is a legit plan to replace Dahl at RG then so be it. If the coaches see one of the youngsters (Rok, Washington, Barnes, Smith) who they feel is ready then go for it. Outside of that it seems short sighted to create another hole on a weak unit (total depth) to fill a hole somewhere else. My favorite part of watching the preseason games is watching the young or new lineman and see who stands out. I am pulling hard for Rok, Smith and Barnes to fill some needed roles. But, with Turner you have a guy who has proven he can fill all of those rolls and last an NFL season. I think he should be able to be retained relatively cheaply.
As for Hayes, I think he is in reality our #1 resigning priority. We have two DEs that are good pass rushers and subpar vs. the run. Hayes fills a couple of roles for a D that is on the verge.

 

[BonifayRam]

""Rams also have Rok Watkins & Brandon Washington signed so there is clearly no need there @ back up OG. The back up @ Center last yr on the Rams 53 man rooster was 2nd yr center Tim Barnes who is a ERFA meaning he is ours cheaply.""

None of these guy have proven they can play well for extended periods. If the difference in bringing Turner back is a couple of hundred grand then it is a no brainer in my estimation. I have never seen Washington. Smith was solid and the fact that he has played some C is interesting. I am sure he is bigger than his listed weight now, but, he still got pushed around a few times when he did play last year. He also had, at least that I remember, one very solid game. I am hoping for Rok to develop and the coaches may be seeing a totally different guy at this time, but, what we saw in limited action was a guy who got over his toes too much, couldnt stay healthy and couldnt be bothered to show up in shape. It does not make sense to me to dump both guys (Harvery and Turner) that played most of our games at G for what amounts to not much savings....at least this year. If there is a legit plan to replace Dahl at RG then so be it. If the coaches see one of the youngsters (Rok, Washington, Barnes, Smith) who they feel is ready then go for it. Outside of that it seems short sighted to create another hole on a weak unit (total depth) to fill a hole somewhere else. My favorite part of watching the preseason games is watching the young or new lineman and see who stands out. I am pulling hard for Rok, Smith and Barnes to fill some needed roles. But, with Turner you have a guy who has proven he can fill all of those rolls and last an NFL season. I think he should be able to be retained relatively cheaply.
As for Hayes, I think he is in reality our #1 resigning priority. We have two DEs that are good pass rushers and subpar vs. the run. Hayes fills a couple of roles for a D that is on the verge.

Yes I agree with you on watching those young OL'ers during pre season is fun. I hope I made myself clear that it was my opinion that I would want Harvey to be here until he is done. The only difference we have is in Turner and what you think he can be had for & what I believe he will cost. Turner has been around for many seasons but Smith was a first yr guy last season. Turner played two positions Smith played & started two positions Smith is under contract cheaply Turner is not and will cost several million in cap $$.

Brandon Washington was a gift by the Eagles they were fat on many good OG's and depleted of any OT's they had to release Brandon to find OT's. Don't be surprised when you watch him fight hard for that OLG post in TC & pre season. Now if Turner showed any ability to play ORT then Turner could be worth another look. But we never saw him outside as a Ram. Watkins did have an entire season playing both right & left OT in college but he got heavy & sloppy late 2011 & his feet got slower & slower. If Fisher & Boudreau does come back a new slimmer stronger self you never know what Boudreau can work up with the 6-4 330 pounder.

 

[jap]

I agree with Bonifay with respect to developing our existing young OL guys and restructuring/deleting the contracts of older veteran OL-ers depending on experience and current value to team. There is no more sensitive unit than the OL. Unless there are solid blue chippers or strong developmental guys who can be plugged in immediately or soon, it might be best to pursue solid bargain options in FA or trade.

 

[fearsomefour]

My optimism on keeping Turner around is I dont think there will be a lot of demand for his services, but, I could be way off on that. Centers, even servicable ones, are not easy to come by. Several hundred grand more, resign him, counting several million more (or even 1 million more) vs. cap, see ya. Im with you there.

I havent seen Washington play, based on what youve said I look forward to it. It is funny how quickly the Eagles went from having "extra" guys to need a rehaul upfront.

Guards are an interesting lot in the NFL. You dont have to burn high picks to find good ones. Maybe our upgrades and next generation of Gs are already on the roster.