Punter and Johnny Hekker

[Thordaddy]

Albe plays the character card

LesBaker missing one of my main points:
Who would you replace Hekker with....or even bring in that would seriously challenge him? He's already better than half the kickers in the league.

I don't want to replace him because he doesn't need replacing. I just want him to play more within himself and become more consistent. I like him as a person and as a player. But he can play much better IMO.

Yes he is a great person, writes his mother nightly during camp, changes underwear every day , never ever chews with his mouth open

 

[LesBaker]

LesBaker missing one of my main points:
Who would you replace Hekker with....or even bring in that would seriously challenge him? He's already better than half the kickers in the league.

I don't want to replace him because he doesn't need replacing. I just want him to play more within himself and become more consistent. I like him as a person and as a player. But he can play much better IMO.

I agree he can get better, I think he will and will end up rounding out the finest special teams units in the NFL. With his punting and Legatron's kicking a stalled drive isn't that bad of a deal.

I know that sounds kinda silly but it's true.

You can bet with this D improving Fisher is going to get a lot braver with his use of Legatron and I will bet he will attempt a record number of 55+ and 60+ kicks this year. Last year how many times did you say "go for it" to the TV when the kick would have been 60 or more yards. I did it several times. And if Fisher decides not to he has Hekker to drop one deep and pin the opponents in.

They might "only be kickers" but as close as games are usually and how critical field position is I think our guys deserve a ton of credit and are going to continue to influence the outcome of games in our favor.

 

[-X-]

X flaunting his superior vision:
Nope.

Not necessarily. That was the objective in 2011. Last year the objective was to punt directionally to give the coverage units the chance to lock down half the field. That's what he did, and that's what they did. He's a great athlete and a star returner, but he didn't hurt the Rams one bit. I still maintain Hekker isn't a problem, and is going to continue to improve and become a real asset.

Yeah that was me not seeing it correctly although 15.2 yards per return is still in the horrible category.

"Not necessarily" is both true and a good way to put it. So let me change what I'm saying to this:

The stuff in blue was probably true for games without a premier KR like Peterson. Against returners like Peterson, If he wasn't supposed to kick it away from him then that was really bad coaching IMO. The announcers were continually talking about that in both games and I agreed with them at the time and I still do.

Yep, awesome kick.

Consistency, consistency, consistency.

Biggame and I never tried to portray Hekkers punting as a problem and I think we're both expecting an improvement this year. As I said, I think his problem was trying to over kick the ball and after a year of reflection I think he probably understands that.

Just wait till we have a discussion about Legatron. That's when you'll really hear me complain. :nahhh:

Not at all. I appreciate the conversation during the lean times, and I welcome the opportunity you guys provide for me to go and do some research. Believe me, if I thought Hekker sucked, or if any aspect of his game sucked, I'd absolutely admit it. I just didn't see it that way (sans the shanks).

Peterson is a special player, so he's going to rip off some good return yardage. That said, we did give him more yardage than his average for the year. And it's not just Hekker as it is the rest of the special teams (coverage units) that helped to keep him and everyone else in check. Zero punt returns all year is a welcome *thing* in the wake of the previous years.

Here's the rest of the returners' production (against us) last year. Average is in parentheses.

Detroit - Stefan Logan - (10.6)
Washington - Brandon Banks - (-3.0)
Chicago - Devin Hester (13.0)
Seattle - Leon Washington - (0.5)
Arizona - Patrick Peterson - (15.2)
Miami - zero punt returns
Green Bay - Randall Cobb (15.0) (1 punt return)
New England - Julian Edelman - (5.3)
San Fran - Ted Ginn Jr. - (11.5)
New York Jets - Kyle Wilson - (9.7)
Arizona - Patrick Peterson - (14.8)
San Fran - Ted Ginn Jr. - (3.0)
Buffalo - Leodis McKelvin (11.0)
Minnesota - Marcus Sherels - (15.0) (1 punt return)
Tampa Bay - Roscoe Parrish - (2.3)
Seattle - Leon Washington - (11.0)

 

[LesBaker]

X flaunting his superior vision:
Nope.

Not necessarily. That was the objective in 2011. Last year the objective was to punt directionally to give the coverage units the chance to lock down half the field. That's what he did, and that's what they did. He's a great athlete and a star returner, but he didn't hurt the Rams one bit. I still maintain Hekker isn't a problem, and is going to continue to improve and become a real asset.

Yeah that was me not seeing it correctly although 15.2 yards per return is still in the horrible category.

"Not necessarily" is both true and a good way to put it. So let me change what I'm saying to this:

The stuff in blue was probably true for games without a premier KR like Peterson. Against returners like Peterson, If he wasn't supposed to kick it away from him then that was really bad coaching IMO. The announcers were continually talking about that in both games and I agreed with them at the time and I still do.

Yep, awesome kick.

Consistency, consistency, consistency.

Biggame and I never tried to portray Hekkers punting as a problem and I think we're both expecting an improvement this year. As I said, I think his problem was trying to over kick the ball and after a year of reflection I think he probably understands that.

Just wait till we have a discussion about Legatron. That's when you'll really hear me complain. :nahhh:

Not at all. I appreciate the conversation during the lean times, and I welcome the opportunity you guys provide for me to go and do some research. Believe me, if I thought Hekker sucked, or if any aspect of his game sucked, I'd absolutely admit it. I just didn't see it that way (sans the shanks).

Peterson is a special player, so he's going to rip off some good return yardage. That said, we did give him more yardage than his average for the year. And it's not just Hekker as it is the rest of the special teams (coverage units) that helped to keep him and everyone else in check. Zero punt returns all year is a welcome *thing* in the wake of the previous years.

Here's the rest of the returners' production (against us) last year. Average is in parentheses.

Detroit - Stefan Logan - (10.6)
Washington - Brandon Banks - (-3.0)
Chicago - Devin Hester (13.0)
Seattle - Leon Washington - (0.5)
Arizona - Patrick Peterson - (15.2)
Miami - zero punt returns
Green Bay - Randall Cobb (15.0) (1 punt return)
New England - Julian Edelman - (5.3)
San Fran - Ted Ginn Jr. - (11.5)
New York Jets - Kyle Wilson - (9.7)
Arizona - Patrick Peterson - (14.8)
San Fran - Ted Ginn Jr. - (3.0)
Buffalo - Leodis McKelvin (11.0)
Minnesota - Marcus Sherels - (15.0) (1 punt return)
Tampa Bay - Roscoe Parrish - (2.3)
Seattle - Leon Washington - (11.0)

There is room for improvement since I would guess the league average is 8 or 9 yards. I'm not sure very much of it is on Hekker though.

 

[albefree69]

X pointing out our STILL inferior PR coverage:

Peterson is a special player, so he's going to rip off some good return yardage. That said, we did give him more yardage than his average for the year. And it's not just Hekker as it is the rest of the special teams (coverage units) that helped to keep him and everyone else in check. Zero punt returns all year is a welcome *thing* in the wake of the previous years.

Here's the rest of the returners' production (against us) last year. Average is in parentheses.

Detroit - Stefan Logan - (10.6)
Washington - Brandon Banks - (-3.0)
Chicago - Devin Hester (13.0)
Seattle - Leon Washington - (0.5)
Arizona - Patrick Peterson - (15.2)
Miami - zero punt returns
Green Bay - Randall Cobb (15.0) (1 punt return)
New England - Julian Edelman - (5.3)
San Fran - Ted Ginn Jr. - (11.5)
New York Jets - Kyle Wilson - (9.7)
Arizona - Patrick Peterson - (14.8)
San Fran - Ted Ginn Jr. - (3.0)
Buffalo - Leodis McKelvin (11.0)
Minnesota - Marcus Sherels - (15.0) (1 punt return)
Tampa Bay - Roscoe Parrish - (2.3)
Seattle - Leon Washington - (11.0)

First of all, thanks for great work on the PR stats even though it was a depressing read. Way too many double digit return yard averages. :balling: I don't know how much of that is Hekker not putting enough height on the ball or just our normal crappy coverage but I have a feeling it was a combination of both.

I agree with the stuff in blue and that's my point. You don't kick to guys like that. Guys like Hester (in their prime) don't get kicked to very often and when it does happen they usually make the other team pay for being stupid. So I see two possibilities. The coaches screwed up or Hekker screwed up. 9 times. I'm assuming it was Hekker but I'm just guessing of course.

I felt like I was in an echo chamber when I was watching both Cardinal games because I could barely hear myself yelling at him over the announcers screams. Slight exaggeration of course but they went on and on about how stupid that was and so did I.

Your stats point out another area of concern. The coverage units. Like you said, it's an improvement (understatement) over the previous years but it still sucks. Have you either looked at or thought about why that is still happening? I used to think it was bad coaching but when we got rid of April and he went on to do great things with his new team I was at a loss to figure out why. Still am.

 

[-X-]

There is room for improvement since I would guess the league average is 8 or 9 yards. I'm not sure very much of it is on Hekker though.

Sure ... there's room for improvement. Always.

The Rams allowed an average of 8.4 yards per return last year.
The league average is 9.6 (if my math is correct).
The Bears really fucked up the bell curve with their 3.4 YPR, btw.

<a class="postlink" href="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerPuntReturn/position/defense" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... on/defense</a>

 

[albefree69]

LesBaker failing to sound silly:
I agree he can get better, I think he will and will end up rounding out the finest special teams units in the NFL. With his punting and Legatron's kicking a stalled drive isn't that bad of a deal.

I know that sounds kinda silly but it's true.

You can bet with this D improving Fisher is going to get a lot braver with his use of Legatron and I will bet he will attempt a record number of 55+ and 60+ kicks this year. Last year how many times did you say "go for it" to the TV when the kick would have been 60 or more yards. I did it several times. And if Fisher decides not to he has Hekker to drop one deep and pin the opponents in.

They might "only be kickers" but as close as games are usually and how critical field position is I think our guys deserve a ton of credit and are going to continue to influence the outcome of games in our favor.

I'm more than happy to disagree with you Les. Doesn't sound silly at all cause I understand the point you're trying to make.

As for Fisher giving Legatron more long range opportunities because of our improved D, I agree in theory with that. I'm not so sure of that in real life though. I'll wait until the next Legatron thread before I get into why I'm not sure that's gonna happen.

Right now my couch is calling me. :lol:

 

[-X-]

Your stats point out another area of concern. The coverage units. Like you said, it's an improvement (understatement) over the previous years but it still sucks. Have you either looked at or thought about why that is still happening?

Well, as I posted to Les, we're better than the league average. And I'll take that from a team with a rookie punter and tons of new faces on special teams. As we both know, average is a giant step in the right direction. I suspect the coverage unit will improve as a natural progression with the same coach in a 2nd year (Fassel). He orchestrated some great fakes too, btw.

What I'm most looking forward to is our own improvement in return yardage. Danny's a good player and all, but he's nowhere near as explosive as Tavon could be.

 

[LesBaker]

Your stats point out another area of concern. The coverage units. Like you said, it's an improvement (understatement) over the previous years but it still sucks. Have you either looked at or thought about why that is still happening?

Well, as I posted to Les, we're better than the league average. And I'll take that from a team with a rookie punter and tons of new faces on special teams. As we both know, average is a giant step in the right direction. I suspect the coverage unit will improve as a natural progression with the same coach in a 2nd year (Fassel). He orchestrated some great fakes too, btw.

What I'm most looking forward to is our own improvement in return yardage. Danny's a good player and all, but he's nowhere near as explosive as Tavon could be.

TA>DA

 

[albefree69]

LesBaker the much younger brother of GingerBaker on drums:

TA>DA

:ww:

 

[LosAngelesRams]

Hekker killed it for being a rookie, I believe our P/K positions are locked in. The cool part is they are the same year so kinda the same age. We can have the duo for along time if they continue performing.

 

[albefree69]

LosAngelesRams still waiting for someone to help him add color to his sig line:
Hekker killed it for being a rookie, I believe our P/K positions are locked in. The cool part is they are the same year so kinda the same age. We can have the duo for along time if they continue performing.

I'd help you with that color problem but just like Blanche DuBois: "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers" so I'm pretty much worthless in that area. We do have experts lurking about in the area though.

As for Hekker killing it as a rookie, you guys on the west coast are too easily pleased. We're never satisfied in NH. Our state motto is "Produce Now or Die You Rookie Scum!"

Kind of harsh but it keeps out the riff raff and the pond scum from NY (you need to be from St. Louis to understand that reference).

 

[LosAngelesRams]

LosAngelesRams still waiting for someone to help him add color to his sig line:
Hekker killed it for being a rookie, I believe our P/K positions are locked in. The cool part is they are the same year so kinda the same age. We can have the duo for along time if they continue performing.

I'd help you with that color problem but just like blanche DuBois: "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers" so I'm pretty much worthless in that area. We do have experts lurking about in the area though.

As for Hekker killing it as a rookie, you guys on the west coast are too easily pleased. We're never satisfied in NH. Our state motto is "Produce Now or Die You Rookie Scum!"

Kind of harsh but it keeps out the riff raff and the pond scum from NY (you need to be from St. Louis to understand that reference).

Hahaha, yea man color it up for me! XD

I'm still sticking to Hekker becoming a very good punter in the future. From the flashes of greatness he displayed I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt

can you imagine if they told all the rookies drafted that? Lol there would be plenty of.......o_o reactions

 

[albefree69]

LosAngelesRams contemplating a move to the state where failed rookies go to die:

Hahaha, yea man color it up for me! XD

I'm still sticking to Hekker becoming a very good punter in the future. From the flashes of greatness he displayed I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt

can you imagine if they told all the rookies drafted that? Lol there would be plenty of.......o_o reactions

Come to NH during our annual "Rookie Roast". Stop by my house and I'll put you up for the night and provide the beer (dark).

If you're that in love with Hekker why isn't he in your sig line? :what:

I think he'll be fine too. :lol:

 

[LosAngelesRams]

LosAngelesRams contemplating a move to the state where failed rookies go to die:

Hahaha, yea man color it up for me! XD

I'm still sticking to Hekker becoming a very good punter in the future. From the flashes of greatness he displayed I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt

can you imagine if they told all the rookies drafted that? Lol there would be plenty of.......o_o reactions

Come to NH during our annual "Rookie Roast". Stop by my house and I'll put you up for the night and provide the beer (dark).

If you're that in love with Hekker why isn't he in your sig line? :what:

I think he'll be fine too. :lol:

If I'm ever down there I'll have to take you up on it. Sounds like fun

its not really love I just think hes going turnout good.

Now legatron though... that kids going to be a fuckin beast.

 

[CGI_Ram]

There were times last year where I questioned if Hekker has the consistency to be a big league punter. Sure, some good kicks and some great kicks... but he pissed me off a lot too.

Let's face it; he had in the inconsistent label out of college. He brought the same to the NFL.

I agree; this position should be contested.

That said; I'm happy with both our kickers. But I'm not sold on either one, yet.

 

[albefree69]

CGI_Ram moving to the dark side:
There were times last year where I questioned if Hekker has the consistency to be a big league punter. Sure, some good kicks and some great kicks... but he pissed me off a lot too.

Let's face it; he had in the inconsistent label out of college. He brought the same to the NFL.

I agree; this position should be contested.

That said; I'm happy with both our kickers. But I'm not sold on either one, yet.

My views exactly. Means you should probably rethink them.

 

[LosAngelesRams]

There were times last year where I questioned if Hekker has the consistency to be a big league punter. Sure, some good kicks and some great kicks... but he pissed me off a lot too.

Let's face it; he had in the inconsistent label out of college. He brought the same to the NFL.

I agree; this position should be contested.

That said; I'm happy with both our kickers. But I'm not sold on either one, yet.

I think the media attention got to legatron, once the media started interviewing him like crazy and writing shit he started missing. Idk that's just my thoughts

 

[CGI_Ram]

There were times last year where I questioned if Hekker has the consistency to be a big league punter. Sure, some good kicks and some great kicks... but he pissed me off a lot too.

Let's face it; he had in the inconsistent label out of college. He brought the same to the NFL.

I agree; this position should be contested.

That said; I'm happy with both our kickers. But I'm not sold on either one, yet.

I think the media attention got to legatron, once the media started interviewing him like crazy and writing shyte he started missing. Idk that's just my thoughts

I agree.

But, the strength of the head is the strength of a pro place kicker.

I think he'll be fine. But, this season will tell the story.

 

[LosAngelesRams]

There were times last year where I questioned if Hekker has the consistency to be a big league punter. Sure, some good kicks and some great kicks... but he pissed me off a lot too.

Let's face it; he had in the inconsistent label out of college. He brought the same to the NFL.

I agree; this position should be contested.

That said; I'm happy with both our kickers. But I'm not sold on either one, yet.

I think the media attention got to legatron, once the media started interviewing him like crazy and writing shyte he started missing. Idk that's just my thoughts

I agree.

But, the strength of the head is the strength of a pro place kicker.

I think he'll be fine. But, this season will tell the story.

Yea, very true.

damn I cant wait for the season to start... its killin me.