No one was satisfied with how that punt turned out

[Rambitious1]

Not the Rams -- bogus, made-up penalty

Not the Chargers -- McCoy was upset over the spot of the foul.

What does it take to achieve consistency with the zebras?

It could be just me, but IMHO since that Jackass Blandino took over as head of officiating, there has been a noticeable slide in the quality of game time calls.
Not that the Zebras have ever been great, but it just seems to be getting worse to me.

 

[CoachO]

I don't know how they are currently graded but there have to be both non-calls as well as bad calls that come in to the equation when they are graded. Obviously different referees key on different areas to watch during any given play so they are "playing" different positions and moving one to a new position would have a learning curve. Do the refs other than the crew chief move around week to week?

Officiating CREWS are just that. They are a crew, put together at the start of each season, and work as a crew all year. Referees, are referees,=. Umpires are umpires. Side judges, etc...... They do not switch positions throughout the season.

I know a lot of people seem to think that because they are not "full time" officials, it somehow makes a difference. This gets brought up every time officiating comes into question. This sport just doesnt lend itself to having full time officials. They work ONE TIME a week, but they spend up to 40 hours EVERY WEEK preparing for, and "working" on the job.

Not sure what other "part-time" professions require the same sort of commitment. And for those who seem to think that making them "full-time" would somehow improve the level of performance, what would you have them do the other 6 days they are not working a game?

They already undergo extensive film study, receive regular and ongoing updates and communication from the league.

The biggest issue isn't with the officials themselves, its what they are being asked to do, with regards to how the league wants the game officiated. If there is one major problem, its the lack of consistency from crew to crew. Making them "full-time", isn't going to change that one bit.

 

[blackbart]

@CoachO from your description it sounds like they already are full time. I had no idea the spent that much time each week preparing. It certainly is not an easy job.

I agree with the inconsistency, it just seems some weeks they are in on every other play making a call and then it always seems there are obvious calls that are missed.

Maybe it is the angle being on the field looking through players that makes them miss a lot of the obvious things we see from camera angles. Since that seems to be something we see every week, I like the idea of having a member of the drew in the both making calls and corrections from there. It might not be better but when the announcers are laughing and saying how terrible the calls are EVERY week it seems there is no doubt things need to change.

 

[rhinobean]

The problem with that is we have already seen what happens with refs who aren't NFL ready when the league had to deal with replacement refs for a few weeks.


Make them full time NFL employees and discipline them when they perform below league standards

And publish the discipline like they do the players!

 

[drasconis]

Let's be clear they are part time workers who make on average 170,000 a year from their part time gig. Compared to other money in the nfl that isn't much, but that is more than enough for them to treat it as a full time job. Do most of these guys actually do much outside of ref at this point? It isn't like high school refs that have to have real jobs to make ends meet.

 

[CoachO]

And publish the discipline like they do the players!

and what would that do? other literally put them at risk or personal harm from lunatic fans who may be just a tad intoxicated. And i am totally serious about that. Name one sport that does that.....

What possible good would come from publishing anything to do with an officials performance do?

 

[Ram Quixote]

The refs are already separate from NFL control. IMO the NFL needs to have more oversight regarding the refs rather than giving it all to the lame ass union like they did.

Yet Dean Blandino works for the NFL. The only separation between the NFL and the refs is the union. Now, certainly the union is as culpable for the current situation as the NFL, but the NFL still won't allow HCs to talk about bad calls or they are disciplined. That's the influence I'm talking about.

 

[CoachO]

Let's be clear they are part time workers who make on average 170,000 a year from their part time gig. Compared to other money in the nfl that isn't much, but that is more than enough for them to treat it as a full time job. Do most of these guys actually do much outside of ref at this point? It isn't like high school refs that have to have real jobs to make ends meet.

Most of them are professionals in other fields. One might find it ironic, but one of the most common professions of officials tends to be that of educators. These guys are very carefully vetted, and are not "just some guy" taken off the streets as some might want to believe.

 

[rhinobean]

and what would that do? other literally put them at risk or personal harm from lunatic fans who may be just a tad intoxicated. And i am totally serious about that. Name one sport that does that.....

What possible good would come from publishing anything to do with an officials performance do?

Then how do the teams know that there is something being done about the poor officiating they're subjected to? Public needn't have access to that info!

 

[CoachO]

Then how do the teams know that there is something being done about the poor officiating they're subjected to? Public needn't have access to that info!

The league already reviews each and every game, and its been widely reported, when calls are missed, the teams are informed. I know for a fact, that officials are scrutinized, and indeed disciplined. I know personally, current and past officials. And contrary to public opinion, they are removed from assignments, and even terminated if they finish in the lower percentage of the league (at their position) for consecutive seasons.

To your point, the teams know when and where officials are disciplined.

I get the frustration over the officiating. I was screaming at the tv all day myself. But I also realize, as I mentioned in an earlier thread, that this is what the league wants. The calls that were made today, were all points of emphasis from the league office this year. The hands to the face, etc....

My frustration is with the inconsistency from crew to crew. This crew today, has called more penalties than any other crew in the league. It seems as if they take the approach of making a call, if there is any question at all.

The best officials, are the ones who know when to interject themselves into the game, and when a non-call is actually the "best" call. Calling a holding penalty 20 yards behind a play, or on a player who has zero impact on the play, isn't good officiating. It's over officiating. And at least for me, that's the biggest issue in the NFL nowadays.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Not the Rams -- bogus, made-up penalty

Not the Chargers -- McCoy was upset over the spot of the foul.

What does it take to achieve consistency with the zebras?

Stick a guy in the booth, his job is to let the refs know if the penalty is indeed a penalty.

He cannot call for a penalty, if it's missed it's missed. But just like any other booth review, if there is a really bad call, the guy can say "Wait, that's not a good penalty, take it away."

It's not a big deal to say "The game is fast, we're going to read things incorrectly at times." it doesn't mean that the refs aren't competent, it means they're human. The incompetence comes from the unwillingness to even attempt to fix issues. Having a booth guy be able to call penalties delays the game too much, but giving him the power to check the review really quick and confirm or deny the infraction doesn't.

 

[CoachO]

Stick a guy in the booth, his job is to let the refs know if the penalty is indeed a penalty.

He cannot call for a penalty, if it's missed it's missed. But just like any other booth review, if there is a really bad call, the guy can say "Wait, that's not a good penalty, take it away."

It's not a big deal to say "The game is fast, we're going to read things incorrectly at times." it doesn't mean that the refs aren't competent, it means they're human. The incompetence comes from the unwillingness to even attempt to fix issues. Having a booth guy be able to call penalties delays the game too much, but giving him the power to check the review really quick and confirm or deny the infraction doesn't.

In theory, I agree with you.

The problem is, which penalties can be reviewed? Personal fouls? offsides? In the college game, they already have the ability to "review" targeting penalties, where an automatic ejection is part of it.

In examples of personal fouls like the targeting penalty last week on McLeod, or the roughing the passer call against Brockers last year in the Chicago game, then sure. But to over turn, any penalty, (holding, pass interference, etc) just isn't practical. The other thing, IMO, that would improve the process, is to have the replay official be the one who makes the decision, and take that away from the on field referee. Again, this is the case with the college replay system, and it takes the onus away from the on field Referee, and puts it on replay official.

Baseball has incorporated a review process, but has put restrictions on what types of plays can be reviewed. If the NFL were to consider something along those lines, it could be a huge benefit.

 

[drasconis]

Most of them are professionals in other fields. One might find it ironic, but one of the most common professions of officials tends to be that of educators. These guys are very carefully vetted, and are not "just some guy" taken off the streets as some might want to believe.

Not saying they are some guy taken off the street and yes they are vetted and most have worked their way up. I just do not believe that most of these guys are "doing this on the side" at this point. So their "part-time" gig pays them $170K and then they go and teach high school history for $50k??? (yes I know this is the story they give). Something has to give here - no one should treat a $170K a year job as a side gig. The fans sure don't in what they expect.

 

[RhodyRams]

we went thru this last week also, with the McCleod hit on Sanders

and the week before
and the week before
and the week before
and the week before......


as much as I dont like some of the calls, and some of the non-calls... I am pretty sure that if there was a solution, it would equal out with flags for and against the Rams as well as the other 31 teams


Good teams win despite the officiating

 

[CoachO]

Not saying they are some guy taken off the street and yes they are vetted and most have worked their way up. I just do not believe that most of these guys are "doing this on the side" at this point. So their "part-time" gig pays them $170K and then they go and teach high school history for $50k??? (yes I know this is the story they give). Something has to give here - no one should treat a $170K a year job as a side gig. The fans sure don't in what they expect.

You seem to be the only one accusing them of treating it as a "side gig". ANd you can choose to believe whatever you want as to whether or not they are"teaching high school history". The bottom line, the sport of football is NOT like baseball, or basketball, or even hockey where they play games every night of the week. These guys work ONE GAME A WEEK, so to think that making them "full time" just isn't practical.

That doesn't mean they take the "job" lightly. As you said, they get paid quite well to do this, why would they NOT take it seriously, and put in the time required? But to say they don't (or shouldn't) have "real jobs" just says to me, you have little understanding of what this is all about.

 

[Ram Quixote]

as much as I dont like some of the calls, and some of the non-calls... I am pretty sure that if there was a solution, it would equal out with flags for and against the Rams as well as the other 31 teams

Well, that was my point in the OP. No one is satisfied with how the games are refereed.

And the Rams nearly did win despite the officiating. Sans one play call that many here disagreed with (not me).

 

[LesBaker]

Officiating CREWS are just that. They are a crew, put together at the start of each season, and work as a crew all year. Referees, are referees,=. Umpires are umpires. Side judges, etc...... They do not switch positions throughout the season.

I know a lot of people seem to think that because they are not "full time" officials, it somehow makes a difference. This gets brought up every time officiating comes into question. This sport just doesnt lend itself to having full time officials. They work ONE TIME a week, but they spend up to 40 hours EVERY WEEK preparing for, and "working" on the job.

Not sure what other "part-time" professions require the same sort of commitment. And for those who seem to think that making them "full-time" would somehow improve the level of performance, what would you have them do the other 6 days they are not working a game?

They already undergo extensive film study, receive regular and ongoing updates and communication from the league.

The biggest issue isn't with the officials themselves, its what they are being asked to do, with regards to how the league wants the game officiated. If there is one major problem, its the lack of consistency from crew to crew. Making them "full-time", isn't going to change that one bit.

Maybe they could get even more training and updating and watch even more film if they didn't have a job to worry about during the off season because what they are doing now doesn't seem to be enough.

The program as it exists is clearly failing. Maybe refs have always been this bad and we know now only because of the numerous camera angles and slow motion ad other technologies. Maybe the game has gotten so fast that the refs can keep up or there needs to be one of two more of them on the field. Either way why sit still? Everything else and every other sport makes changes like this it's time the NFL stands up to the refs union and demands better performance and provides them with help since they are essentially in partnership with each other.

Why not do something drastic to effect positive change? Too many really big mistakes happen every week, not in every game but in a few or more.

They cannot allow the sloppy work to continue. They are human, and will make mistakes. Put things in place to correct those errors when they inevitably occur, it makes zero sense not to do that. One of those things IMO is to have dedicated guys who train and practice all year long.

 

[drasconis]

You seem to be the only one accusing them of treating it as a "side gig". ANd you can choose to believe whatever you want as to whether or not they are"teaching high school history". The bottom line, the sport of football is NOT like baseball, or basketball, or even hockey where they play games every night of the week. These guys work ONE GAME A WEEK, so to think that making them "full time" just isn't practical.
That doesn't mean they take the "job" lightly. As you said, they get paid quite well to do this, why would they NOT take it seriously, and put in the time required? But to say they don't (or shouldn't) have "real jobs" just says to me, you have little understanding of what this is all about.

wow man you are really getting upset, and seem to have quit reading what people are writing. To be clear on what I am saying (Before you get anymore defensive and accusing):
1. they are paid a salary that beyond what anyone would consider "part time pay", it is reasonable to assume that in most (not all) cases it is larger than whatever their primary job is.
2. If the NFL is going to pay them that much they might as well be considered full time and treated as such
3. If they are actually doing other jobs on the side I would question if it has negative affect (they claim that during the season they put in 30-50hrs preparing each week) if they do that on top of a full time job that is 80+hrs of work a week - generally at that point something is suffering in work quality (this is not claiming it to be intentional, but a reality of doing that much).
4. I do not understand why this can't bea full time job....so they play once a week. This is a full time job for most of the coaches right. It isn't the 70's when guys needed to work in the offseason to make ends meet. Have on going training and practice for them that makes it truly full time job.
5. maybe making the refs full time employees and increasing their practice and training would make them better and more consistant.
I get exactly what this is all about - the refs seem to repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over, the discussion here is what the league could do to make it better. The customers here (the fans) want to see something done to improve on this.
Now quit putting words in my mouth and starting treating people with respect, because you are offering nothing to covnersation but a poor defense for the status quo.

 

[CoachO]

Maybe they could get even more training and updating and watch even more film if they didn't have a job to worry about during the off season because what they are doing now doesn't seem to be enough.

The program as it exists is clearly failing. Maybe refs have always been this bad and we know now only because of the numerous camera angles and slow motion ad other technologies. Maybe the game has gotten so fast that the refs can keep up or there needs to be one of two more of them on the field. Either way why sit still? Everything else and every other sport makes changes like this it's time the NFL stands up to the refs union and demands better performance and provides them with help since they are essentially in partnership with each other.

Why not do something drastic to effect positive change? Too many really big mistakes happen every week, not in every game but in a few or more.

They cannot allow the sloppy work to continue. They are human, and will make mistakes. Put things in place to correct those errors when they inevitably occur, it makes zero sense not to do that. One of those things IMO is to have dedicated guys who train and practice all year long.

Do you have any idea how much time and training they do?

I have an idea, based on first hand conversations with current and past officials. They have weekly communication, and video updates on every "unusual" situation that takes place throughout the week around the league.

IMO, the problem is NOT with the officials themselves. It's with league and the direction they are going in how they want these games officiated. No other sport makes the wholesale rules changes year in and year out as the NFL. And they hide behind "making the game safe" agenda. Translation: "we are scared to death about lawsuits." They are asking these officials to error on the side of caution when officiating these games.

The McLeod "targeting" call last week is the perfect example of what I am talking about. It was a violent hit. so it must be a penalty. That call would never have been made 5 years ago. But in today's NFL, they won't apologize for it being made, even if it is an incorrect call.

This year, one of the points of emphasis is the "hands to the face" call. In years past, what was flagged yesterday would never have even been looked at. But now, even incidental contact to a players face mask is flagged. That's not the fault of the official. They are enforcing the rules, they don't write them.

 

[CoachO]

wow man you are really getting upset, and seem to have quit reading what people are writing. To be clear on what I am saying (Before you get anymore defensive and accusing):
1. they are paid a salary that beyond what anyone would consider "part time pay", it is reasonable to assume that in most (not all) cases it is larger than whatever their primary job is.
2. If the NFL is going to pay them that much they might as well be considered full time and treated as such
3. If they are actually doing other jobs on the side I would question if it has negative affect (they claim that during the season they put in 30-50hrs preparing each week) if they do that on top of a full time job that is 80+hrs of work a week - generally at that point something is suffering in work quality (this is not claiming it to be intentional, but a reality of doing that much).
4. I do not understand why this can't bea full time job....so they play once a week. This is a full time job for most of the coaches right. It isn't the 70's when guys needed to work in the offseason to make ends meet. Have on going training and practice for them that makes it truly full time job.
5. maybe making the refs full time employees and increasing their practice and training would make them better and more consistant.
I get exactly what this is all about - the refs seem to repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over, the discussion here is what the league could do to make it better. The customers here (the fans) want to see something done to improve on this.
Now quit putting words in my mouth and starting treating people with respect, because you are offering nothing to covnersation but a poor defense for the status quo.

How am I being disrespectful? I haven't called you any names. All I have done it point out things that are factual, when you seem to be the one who is speculating about what they do or don't do.

Have you ever officiated any sport? do you have any first hand knowledge of what goes into to this? You claim to be the customer here, like you have some stake in the games. Bottom line, we are all just fans, and this is nothing more than entertainment for us.

The players, coaches, and yes, even the officials have their livelihoods at stake here, and while it is far from a perfect system, it is what they have based on what the NFL wants.

I guess you didn't read my post discussing some of the potential changes to the replay system. It seems you would rather call me out for thinking this isn't as much about the officials as the league, and how they want the games officiated.

It doesn't matter how many hours these guys put into this "job". It's more about the direction they are getting from the league and enforcing the rules and how they interpret them from week to week.