NFL and gambling

[Kupped]

You mean how the Patriots became the national game every week except for where it had to be shown by contract?

You mean how announcers and fans alike constantly posted things like "we're all Patriots now"?

You mean how the Pats were the beneficiary of calls especially after falling to 4-4?

Also, don't conflate the cheating coming from outside forces like 'Vegas' with the NFL maximizing the revenue from its biggest game by nursing the most popular narratives to maximize fan engagement.

As for why everyone didn't bet the Pats... they were seen as the underdog all the way and they don't win in a straight up contest. The NFL hadn't ever steered the outcome before and bettors were expecting their miracle run to end.

Ask a whale now and you can bet that THEY are paying attention to the "stories" and which the NFL chooses to elevate via it's own media arm and which they feed to outlets like ESPN.

Yeah..
this is deep in conspiracy land.

And it just ignores reality about how good Brady and BB are.

And I HATE them. HATE.

 

[jacktheripper85]

no, the incredible run of calls going his way and non calls going his way in the playoffs was mere chance. totally random. human error. he's just that good.

.

I loathe Tom Brady but to put down his talents is asinine. Just watch the guy for gods sake. He’s one of the best players in the history of football and many times he hasn’t had what you would call “stud players” as a supporting cast.

 

[jacktheripper85]

You mean how the Patriots became the national game every week except for where it had to be shown by contract?

You mean how announcers and fans alike constantly posted things like "we're all Patriots now"?

You mean how the Pats were the beneficiary of calls especially after falling to 4-4?

Also, don't conflate the cheating coming from outside forces like 'Vegas' with the NFL maximizing the revenue from its biggest game by nursing the most popular narratives to maximize fan engagement.

As for why everyone didn't bet the Pats... they were seen as the underdog all the way and they don't win in a straight up contest. The NFL hadn't ever steered the outcome before and bettors were expecting their miracle run to end.

Ask a whale now and you can bet that THEY are paying attention to the "stories" and which the NFL chooses to elevate via it's own media arm and which they feed to outlets like ESPN.

That narrative sounds familiar. Almost like a guy who bagged groceries stepping in for a QB who got injured and going on and winning the Super Bowl.

Damn the NFL is good at creating these soap opera scenarios!!

 

[Merlin]

I loathe Tom Brady but to put down his talents is asinine. Just watch the guy for gods sake. He’s one of the best players in the history of football and many times he hasn’t had what you would call “stud players” as a supporting cast.

Tom Brady of now and the Tom Brady of the '01 season are two different dudes. That team was a ridiculous story of things going their way from calls to bounces to Martz playing into their BS by forgetting he had a run game.

 

[jacktheripper85]

Tom Brady of now and the Tom Brady of the '01 season are two different dudes. That team was a ridiculous story of things going their way from calls to bounces to Martz playing into their BS by forgetting he had a run game.

I thought the whole point of this thread was the NFL fixing games. The other teams ineptness or the ball bouncing a certain way has nothing to do with fixing games or how good Tom Brady is…..even though he’s a crybaby dick.

 

[Mackeyser]

Telling someone else how they should feel about something like that isn’t something I’d go that hard after.

To use your point… they can disagree.

“Let me be clear… no amount…”

And there we have it.

You feel that way, so that’s what happened.

And… to be clear…. There’s no such evidence to support your “ steering” argument, only conclusions you’re reaching to explain certain outcomes.

Any big picture assessment of the NFL as a global brand, with 32 teams with individual ownership groups and agendas, would see the kind of micromanaging of the product in a way that would GREATLY diminish its value as a product and viability as a bet as being counterproductive and.. possibly.. destructive.

As someone else said.. it’s a golden goose.

NO amount of incredulity.

I'm plenty open to evidence.

Did the NFL go to the mat and assert that it was a sport which would put a MUCH higher bar in place with respect to cheating? NO.

Did the NFL stand up for the integrity of the game after the several cheating scandals by the Pats? NO.

Does the NFL have an independent commissioner? NO.

Also, the method I'm using is the same deductive method based on correlation that allows the FBI to track mob and terrorist targets and the SEC to track financial crimes.

Lastly, let's not act like the Golden Goose hasn't been slain in other instances for the dumbest of reasons.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Yeah… no teams benefit from bad calls except for them.

He’s had a 20 year career.. so there are good chances he’ll see more of those over his career than others.

Tom’s performance last year?
What are we suggesting he benefited from?

are you serious man?

you expect to get 50% of the calls go your way.

not 90%+ like brady has benefitted from throughout his career in the playoffs.

.

 

[Mackeyser]

Yeah..
this is deep in conspiracy land.

And it just ignores reality about how good Brady and BB are.

And I HATE them. HATE.

So you really think that the YEARS of filming other teams didn't net an advantage?

M'kay...

 

[Merlin]

I thought the whole point of this thread was the NFL fixing games. The other teams ineptness or the ball bouncing a certain way has nothing to do with fixing games or how good Tom Brady is…..even though he’s a crybaby dick.

Sure. Ok. I agree the guy is a hell of a QB too btw he is without a doubt the best ever just from the standard metric of championships. But was just responding to your point. Brady wasn't the Brady we all know now back in that playoff series. The Patriots had their backs to the wall all throughout where they were dependent on Belichick and that defense/teams and calls to carry them.

That playoff series alone was crazy and suspect. THEN the news breaks on the fact that New England filmed the Rams' walkthrough as well as probably every opponent (which is probably how they could hang with some of those teams that year) and the NFL burned the tapes. I mean the conspiracy indicators are strong enough to at least warrant discussion.

 

[Kupped]

NO amount of incredulity.

I'm plenty open to evidence.

Did the NFL go to the mat and assert that it was a sport which would put a MUCH higher bar in place with respect to cheating? NO.

Did the NFL stand up for the integrity of the game after the several cheating scandals by the Pats? NO.

Does the NFL have an independent commissioner? NO.

Also, the method I'm using is the same deductive method based on correlation that allows the FBI to track mob and terrorist targets and the SEC to track financial crimes.

Lastly, let's not act like the Golden Goose hasn't been slain in other instances for the dumbest of reasons.

I’m dying at this point.

So… um.. maybe they don’t view that kind of cheating as being as much of a difference maker as you? A thought.

And.. again.,, that baseball comp, because you suggested league structure as “entertainment” had something to do with the NFL controlling outcomes..
the Astros cheated in actual games… and more wasn’t done. Your outrage as a Rams fan colors your judgement here.

And.. again.. who benefits? From the cheating?

 

[jacktheripper85]

Sure. Ok. I agree the guy is a hell of a QB too btw he is without a doubt the best ever just from the standard metric of championships. But was just responding to your point. Brady wasn't the Brady we all know now back in that playoff series. The Patriots had their backs to the wall all throughout where they were dependent on Belichick and that defense/teams and calls to carry them.

That playoff series alone was crazy and suspect. THEN the news breaks on the fact that New England filmed the Rams' walkthrough as well as probably every opponent (which is probably how they could hang with some of those teams that year) and the NFL burned the tapes. I mean the conspiracy indicators are strong enough to at least warrant discussion.

People have made the same comments about Montana, Staubach, Bradshaw, etc. when you win that much you always have a target on your back.

As for the Patriots filming other teams. I totally agree and the fact that the tapes were destroyed is total bullshit. The flip side to that is if the NFL thought their reputation was going to be damaged so badly then wouldn’t the obvious move to be to screw the Patriots and Brady for the foreseeable future?

 

[Kupped]

are you serious man?

you expect to get 50% of the calls go your way.

not 90%+ like brady has benefitted from throughout his career in the playoffs.

.

90%?????

My dude.

And, look.. stars get calls in all sports.. human nature. It’s a flaw.

 

[Merlin]

People have made the same comments about Montana, Staubach, Bradshaw, etc. when you win that much you always have a target on your back.

As for the Patriots filming other teams. I totally agree and the fact that the tapes were destroyed is total bullshit. The flip side to that is if the NFL thought their reputation was going to be damaged so badly then wouldn’t the obvious move to be to screw the Patriots and Brady for the foreseeable future?

Well that is all part of what some of us are saying here. Them destroying the tapes tells us a story. Namely that the NFL covered the Patriots asses and why would they do that? This is why the discussion is not tinfoil hat conspiracy fodder. It's real.

 

[Mackeyser]

I couldn't give a fuck if you're "dying" at this point.

Belligerence isn't a sign of intelligence.

You can believe or disbelieve the argument I'm making, but to act as if there's NEVER been any evidence of this is beyond being in denial.

As for "kind of cheating", what kind of enablist shit is that? Some cheating is okay? Sorry, but I'm a very much straight up and down guy. I'd rather the Rams lose every game legit than be gifted a Super Bowl because I care about the INTEGRITY of the contest.

Through actions, inactions and legal arguments, the NFL has made it very clear that they do NOT give a shit about the integrity of the game.

I specifically stopped watching baseball after the 2nd work stoppage in a short while just prior to the Mark McGuire/Sammy Sosa HR derby and it was clear that MLB was fine with the steroids because the home run chase brought folks back to the stands and put them in front of the TV sets. So, the modern MLB not stripping the cheating Astros is more emblematic of the tolerance of fans to deal with cheating and the sport putting the financials ahead of the integrity of the game. It's an example of MLB not living up to its legacy.

As for who benefits... the NFL and the owners as the majority of their money comes from TV contracts and having a post-season with tons of drama mean much larger pools of viewers and being in the position to ask for much more money in future tv contracts.

 

[Mackeyser]

People have made the same comments about Montana, Staubach, Bradshaw, etc. when you win that much you always have a target on your back.

As for the Patriots filming other teams. I totally agree and the fact that the tapes were destroyed is total bullshit. The flip side to that is if the NFL thought their reputation was going to be damaged so badly then wouldn’t the obvious move to be to screw the Patriots and Brady for the foreseeable future?

No. There was very little talk if any about Montana, Staubach or Bradshaw either cheating or being the beneficiary of league largesse... That's simply not correct.

However, during the run, they made bank on the Pats and the fans have always been okay with "Dynasties".

After the cheating, the Pats went years without much success in the post-season and it was some time before they won again.

As for their reputation, I dunno. I don't cheat and have very little access into the mind of cheaters. I can spot the patterns of someone cheating and that's what I see.

Why the NFL felt safe in this course of action, I dunno... but they were right because most fans didn't give a single shit.

 

[LouisvilleRam]

So the NFL decided they were going to make a 6th round draft pick that no one ever heard of their “poster boy”.

Ok.

Nobody ever heard of? He played for the college that is 1st in all time wins and usually leads the country in attendance with crowds over 111,000 some games.

 

[Kupped]

Sure. Ok. I agree the guy is a hell of a QB too btw he is without a doubt the best ever just from the standard metric of championships. But was just responding to your point. Brady wasn't the Brady we all know now back in that playoff series. The Patriots had their backs to the wall all throughout where they were dependent on Belichick and that defense/teams and calls to carry them.

That playoff series alone was crazy and suspect. THEN the news breaks on the fact that New

I couldn't give a fuck if you're "dying" at this point.

Belligerence isn't a sign of intelligence.

You can believe of disbelieve the argument I'm making, but to act as if there's NEVER been any evidence of this is beyond being in denial.

As for "kind of cheating", what kind of enablist shit is that? Some cheating is okay? Sorry, but I'm a very much straight up and down guy. I'd rather the Rams lose every game legit than be gifted a Super Bowl because I care about the INTEGRITY of the contest.

Through actions, inactions and legal arguments, the NFL has made it very clear that they do NOT give a shit about the integrity of the game.

I specifically stopped watching baseball after the 2nd work stoppage in a short while just prior to the Mark McGuire/Sammy Sosa HR derby and it was clear that MLB was fine with the steroids because the home run chase brought folks back to the stands and put them in front of the TV sets. So, the modern MLB not stripping the cheating Astros is more emblematic of the tolerance of fans to deal with cheating and the sport putting the financials ahead of the integrity of the game. It's an example of MLB not living up to its legacy.

As for who benefits... the NFL and the owners as the majority of their money comes from TV contracts and having a post-season with tons of drama mean much larger pools of viewers and being in the position to ask for much more money in future tv contracts.

So, again… you’re talking about different things.

Looking the other way in steroids benefited all of baseball. Offensive explosion. More interesting. Not “cheating” to “steer” a team’s success.
So, let’s throw that out.

Your final paragraph is your crux and ignores any reality.

The idea that the NFL needed to keep the Pats going? And… somehow… wouldn’t get the Rams that win in the Super Bowl?!? Lol
And that we’d be going on three decades with no Cowboys Super Bowl????

The stories and narratives to create an exciting Super Bowl exist every season.

One core thing that gets me about conspiracy stuff .. is how they always benefit someone else… and how, in sports, they do often aim to tear down great teams and individuals.
The complete denial that there can be true greatness.

 

[kurtfaulk]

90%?????

My dude.

And, look.. stars get calls in all sports.. human nature. It’s a flaw.

please tell me one time that a call went against his team in the playoffs. can you tell me five calls?

let's not get into the no calls.

.

 

[Kupped]

Just to add… if it was about benefiting the NFL and TV contracts.. there’s simply no way you’re premier brand, the Cowboys, wouldn’t be in the Super Bowl.
You would see more Chicago Super Bowls and the Raiders would still be in Oakland.

And you wouldn’t have gone 20+ years with no team in LA.

How good is the NFL at conspiracy?
Well… ask St Louis and it’s 800 million settlement.

 

[Kupped]

please tell me one time that a call went against his team in the playoffs. can you tell me five calls?

let's not get into the no calls.

.

Oh, he was undefeated in Super Bowls?