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Boffo97

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what exactly has been built in LA? nothing, the LA plan is only farther along than St Louis plan because Stan said he would fund it. I can promise you if Stan said he would fund a stadium in St Louis it would be farther along in the planning, as we have seen from both St Louis and LA its easy to draw pretty stadiums how many drawings has LA had? whole different story about getting everything approved and actually building.
But, as you admit, the Inglewood project is closer to actual building. Sure, that wouldn't be the case if Stan was funding a project in St. Louis, but that's not what's happening.
 

tonyl711

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But, as you admit, the Inglewood project is closer to actual building. Sure, that wouldn't be the case if Stan was funding a project in St. Louis, but that's not what's happening.
until dirt is turned I wouldn't count on anything in either city.
 

RamFan503

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Agreed, and the other thing is people tend to forget (or not know) that the CVC's negotiation with the Rams have nothing to do with what Nixon/Peacock/Blitz. Those negotiations are separate. Everybody knew that the CVC and Rams wouldn't come to an agreement well before they went to arbitration so I wish people would stop bringing this argument up.
And you don't think the contract signed with the CVC will have any bearing on a proposal by Peacock/Blitz? I would think the NFL couldn't help but look at that agreement and if the one proposed by Peacock?Blitz is significantly different, the NFL would have no choice but to see if the offer reduces Stan's net from owning the team. They would have a hard time enforcing anything that says Stan has to stay in St Louis if the contract offer negatively affects Stan's business interest in St Louis. You can say they have nothing to do with each other but they are joined at the hip and really can't be separated just because there are new players involved on behalf of St Louis.

Also, if as you say that everyone knew that Stan and the CVC wouldn't come to an agreement, where is the good faith there? Wouldn't that mean that the CVC was administering a contract they had no intention of fulfilling? If you entered into such a contract with someone, wouldn't you be the slightest bit put off by that kind of lack of intent to perform?

I also find it a bit dubious that people are chastising Stan for being silent and/or not returning phone calls if the people he supposedly was going to be talking to had no thoughts of actually living up to a clause that is a major component of the agreement. Peacock/Blitz only had any real authority as of the end of November. I'm not sure how involved people expected Stan to be in that period of time with nothing having been proposed after arbitration.

Keep in mind - while Grubman did say that the "too little, too late" mantra wasn't necessarily accurate in his opinion, he did have some telling statements that indicated the NFL was none too pleased with the progress made by those in charge of keeping football in St Louis. To me, he seemed to be telling them to shit or get off the pot.
 

beej

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Keep in mind - while Grubman did say that the "too little, too late" mantra wasn't necessarily accurate in his opinion, he did have some telling statements that indicated the NFL was none too pleased with the progress made by those in charge of keeping football in St Louis. To me, he seemed to be telling them to crap or get off the pot.
Yeah that's pretty much what he gets paid to tell people. His whole job is to get stadiums built by the hostages.
 

blue4

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And you don't think the contract signed with the CVC will have any bearing on a proposal by Peacock/Blitz? I would think the NFL couldn't help but look at that agreement and if the one proposed by Peacock?Blitz is significantly different, the NFL would have no choice but to see if the offer reduces Stan's net from owning the team. They would have a hard time enforcing anything that says Stan has to stay in St Louis if the contract offer negatively affects Stan's business interest in St Louis. You can say they have nothing to do with each other but they are joined at the hip and really can't be separated just because there are new players involved on behalf of St Louis.

Also, if as you say that everyone knew that Stan and the CVC wouldn't come to an agreement, where is the good faith there? Wouldn't that mean that the CVC was administering a contract they had no intention of fulfilling? If you entered into such a contract with someone, wouldn't you be the slightest bit put off by that kind of lack of intent to perform?

I also find it a bit dubious that people are chastising Stan for being silent and/or not returning phone calls if the people he supposedly was going to be talking to had no thoughts of actually living up to a clause that is a major component of the agreement. Peacock/Blitz only had any real authority as of the end of November. I'm not sure how involved people expected Stan to be in that period of time with nothing having been proposed after arbitration.

Keep in mind - while Grubman did say that the "too little, too late" mantra wasn't necessarily accurate in his opinion, he did have some telling statements that indicated the NFL was none too pleased with the progress made by those in charge of keeping football in St Louis. To me, he seemed to be telling them to crap or get off the pot.

They didn't administer a contract they had no intention of fulfilling, they opted not to extend the current crappy contract. The NFL shouldn't have a problem with the new lease unless it differs greatly from the leases that other teams are paying for new stadiums.
 

RamBill

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Bernie: Kroenke isn't the real issue
• By Bernie Miklasz

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_a2f4f83f-c1d6-5dfd-af59-56d9241d73b7.html

We’re in for an intense debate over the merits of building a new football stadium in St. Louis. Many will support the idea simply because a new venue is mandatory if our city hopes to remain on the NFL map. Many will understandably oppose the plan for economic or ethical reasons.

But don’t line up in opposition to the stadium plan for the wrong reason.

That reason being your personal feelings toward Rams owner Stan Kroenke.

Here’s my understatement of the new year: Kroenke isn’t popular in St. Louis these days.

Why would he be? Kroenke’s team hasn’t had a winning season since 2003, he doesn’t engage the fans, and he’s been plotting to build a new stadium near Los Angeles for a presumed getaway.

If an NFL owner ever went as far as conceiving a devious plan to intentionally poison an NFL market in a way that would expedite his scheme to pull his team out of town and head elsewhere, this would pretty much be the perfect formula.

The fans have every reason to be frustrated with Kroenke. But please don’t let those hardened, anti-Kroenke feelings be the reason you hate the idea of building a new

football stadium.

If you want to have an NFL team here, then a new stadium is absolutely necessary. To that end it’s important to keep the bigger picture in mind and take a long-term view. Yes, even if you’ve come to loathe Kroenke and his way of doing business.

I know it sounds crazy, but we have to put the Kroenke anger to the side and focus on the goal of keeping St. Louis in the NFL. That’s the true objective here. The only objective that matters.

This isn’t about making Kroenke happy by giving him a triumph in the stadium battle. This is about protecting our presence as an NFL market.

If the stadium initiative fails because of disdain for Kroenke, the NFL will leave town. And it won’t come back again.

I’d like to make few specific points on this:

1. Dave Peacock, who is working with Bob Blitz on the STL stadium project, made a great point recently. “You root for your team,” Peacock said. “You don’t root for the team’s owner.”

Peacock is right.

When the “Greatest Show” Rams were averaging an astounding 33 points a game and making it to two Super Bowls in three seasons, no one was scrutinizing the team’s owners.

We were rejoicing over the thrilling performances of Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt and Orlando Pace. When the Cardinals’ “Air Coryell” teams were lighting it up in the mid-1970s, fans had no fuss with team owner Bill Bidwill.

You go to the stadium to support Robert Quinn, James Laurinaitis, Aaron Donald, Chris Long, Tre Mason and many other Rams players who are working hard to turn this franchise around. You don’t go to the stadium to support Kroenke.

2. A team’s fortunes can change. A loser can become a winner, and everyone loves a winner. When a team is lousy over an extensive period of time, the owner inevitably takes a hit in popularity. But if the team strings together winning seasons and playoff appearances, then all is well. That’s just the way it works.

3. Ownership can change. If you want a relevant example, look at the Arizona Cardinals. A chronic loser was transformed into a dynamic franchise after the aging Bill Bidwill put his son, Michael Bidwill, in charge. Kroenke owns the Rams now. It doesn’t mean he’ll own the Rams 10 years from now, or 20 years from now.

4. Kroenke can turn his image around if he wants to. Granted, it would be a major repair job, but a rehabilitation is possible.

A successful team would be the most important element.

A Kroenke commitment to play in a new stadium would improve the shaky fan-owner relationship.

Kroenke could help his cause by making an effort to communicate with the fans to show that he cares as much as they do.

Kroenke played a major role in bringing the Rams to St. Louis. And that shouldn’t be forgotten, especially if he keeps the team here.

5. If funding for a new stadium becomes a reality, it will put St. Louis in line to land another NFL franchise. This situation is insanely fluid. Keeping the Rams is an obvious goal, but I don’t rule anything out.

That includes the possibility of the NFL cutting a deal with Kroenke to let him move his team to Los Angeles, and redirecting another franchise to St. Louis.

As a cryptic Peacock recently told CBS Sports online: “We are inclusive with the Rams in all of our plans. And the Rams are our team, and that’s the team that we want playing here for a long time. But we are also respectful of the role the league serves, and the fact that they may have other perspectives and things going on at the league level that may result in a different scenario.”

That’s why it’s wise to take the emotions out of this. A commitment for a new stadium would be the best way to prevent the Rams from fleeing. But that stadium commitment also keeps the NFL engaged in St. Louis, and that could lead to a positive outcome — with or without the Rams.

Here’s one more thing to consider …

If the anti-Kroenke sentiment kills the stadium plan, then Kroenke will be a lot closer to getting exactly what he wants: a chance to move the Rams to LA, and with the league’s approval.

You can hate on Kroenke and take the risk of undermining the Peacock-Blitz mission. But that will also hand him a victory. He’ll win. And St. Louis will lose.
 

Thordaddy

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HERE IS WHY BERNIE SHOULD BE IGNORED

Here’s one more thing to consider …

If the anti-Kroenke sentiment kills the stadium plan, then Kroenke will be a lot closer to getting exactly what he wants: a chance to move the Rams to LA, and with the league’s approval.

You can hate on Kroenke and take the risk of undermining the Peacock-Blitz mission. But that will also hand him a victory. He’ll win. And St. Louis will lose.


He states Kroenke's intentions after spending a whole column cautioning people to not be "hating " on Kroenke because he ( Kroenke) won't state them.

IMO IF Stan wants to go he will find a way , further IMO no one has done MORE to foment public distaste for Stan than Bernie.
 

Rmfnlt

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I agree with Bernie.

Focusing hatred toward Kroenke accomplishes nothing.

If I lived in STL, I'd focus on the new stadium.

It's their only chance to stay, unless Kroenke decides to telll everyone he was joking about the L.A. thing.
 

Sum1

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I'm a stl guy but that article is ridiculous. There can't possibly be more than 10% of a voting public that would reject a deal like that.
Based on what? I've been around plenty of residential areas that oppose commercial growth in their area.

Keep in mind, that article is from a California outlet, not a STL paper. This isn't the first I've seen of there being some nay-sayers to that project. (And I don't mean from the looney bin of RamStalk on the PD).
 

beej

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Based on what? I've been around plenty of residential areas that oppose commercial growth in their area.

Keep in mind, that article is from a California outlet, not a STL paper. This isn't the first I've seen of there being some nay-sayers to that project. (And I don't mean from the looney bin of RamStalk on the PD).
yeah, there's naysayers for everything. And maybe I'm wrong since I'm not from Inglewood. I just give people more credit than that. If it goes to a public vote, a huge majority of people are surely yes voters on that deal. If not, LA has no chance of getting a stadium anywhere. And people who say that "the system" is keeping them from getting ahead and finding jobs...well...
 

drasconis

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yeah, there's naysayers for everything. And maybe I'm wrong since I'm not from Inglewood. I just give people more credit than that. If it goes to a public vote, a huge majority of people are surely yes voters on that deal. If not, LA has no chance of getting a stadium anywhere. And people who say that "the system" is keeping them from getting ahead and finding jobs...well...

Remeber Kroenke got the intial 60acres because the locals stopped the building of a superwalmart. Now maybe that was wanting to save "mom-pop shops", but others may not have wanted the comercial development or the traffic. That was also quite a while ago. Just saying the area has rejected big projects there previously.
 

beej

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Remeber Kroenke got the intial 60acres because the locals stopped the building of a superwalmart. Now maybe that was wanting to save "mom-pop shops", but others may not have wanted the comercial development or the traffic. That was also quite a while ago. Just saying the area has rejected big projects there previously.
well, I hope they do.
 

bluecoconuts

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Remeber Kroenke got the intial 60acres because the locals stopped the building of a superwalmart. Now maybe that was wanting to save "mom-pop shops", but others may not have wanted the comercial development or the traffic. That was also quite a while ago. Just saying the area has rejected big projects there previously.

They sent out questions and talked to people to get a feel for their thoughts already. The NFL also sent out surveys to different people to see how the city of LA as a whole felt as well. The voter thing is just a formality, while it could potentially delay things, its quite unlikely that it doesn't pass or fails to get the signatures in time. With the construction of the park started, they're already know there will be increased traffic.
 

Boffo97

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Don't be so quick to assume the Inglewood project doesn't face similar hurdles to the St. Louis project...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/stadium-648296-city-inglewood.html
Both projects would need to be approved... but the Inglewood project has its financing completely figured out from what I've heard. The riverfront stadium still needs to sell the electorate on public funds, and Stan on contributing. It's hard to tell which hurdle is higher.
 

bluecoconuts

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Both projects would need to be approved... but the Inglewood project has its financing completely figured out from what I've heard. The riverfront stadium still needs to sell the electorate on public funds, and Stan on contributing. It's hard to tell which hurdle is higher.

From what I can tell the biggest hurdles with stadiums are where does it go, what does it look like, who pays for it, and how do you get the land, with the last two being the most important.

So far, LA has all of those figured out, if you assume the stadium they drew up is the one they want, which isn't certain at this time. St Louis has 2 out of the 4, if you assume what it looks like stands (which is doubtful), but the last two are up in the air, which is big. At this point, unless LA is a big bluff, St Louis definitely has more hurdles. The problem is while Stan seems willing to put up his own money in LA, he's not in St Louis, and that makes it much harder for them.
 

dbrooks25

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They didn't administer a contract they had no intention of fulfilling, they opted not to extend the current crappy contract. The NFL shouldn't have a problem with the new lease unless it differs greatly from the leases that other teams are paying for new stadiums.
Thank you, you saved me from having to respond. My thoughts exactly.
 
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