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The Ripper

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Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
794
Name
Rip
Because you keep acting like you know what the investors limits are and where their cut off point is, and acting like these "if's/could/should" scenarios had never dawned on them or as if GS has no idea what they're in for down the line. They didn't become a $85 billion dollar company by doing terrible stadium deals.



Again, irrelevant. Few ways to look this:

1)you really think an investor, after spending so much money on such a project is going to totally abandon it in 10-20 years?
2)The income the stadium generates, especially over 10-20 years, could easily be put back into "maintenance" or whatever they might need.
3)There are many ways to finance issues through a stadium - with things including revenue coming from ticket sales, the stadium, etc. An example of that would be the G4 loan (Disclaimer: I am not saying they are getting it). Some of the ways to pay that back are over time through stadium money.

I think you're trying to make a non-issue into an issue, and my biggest issue is that you're making assumptions about how investors are going to act when you don't even know who is investing let alone how many or their worth. In the same breath, you're also asserting that they would be unwilling to help at all, especially after generating a ton of money off the initial investment.

And I guess my biggest gripe is that Goldman Sachs has been down this road before; 30 times in the last 10 years - and I'm guessing you could probably take all these concerns and apply to it every stadium deal that is privately funded but not owned by the owner... Or hell, just look at the Santa Clara deal. Do you think they're not gonna be able to fix any future issues?

Doesn't hold water or make any sense. Goldman Sachs has been done this road several times - if there's any body who knows whats coming down the road, it's them.

Additionally, they have said they will cover losses. Again, point is moot. And I think who "finances" their stadium isn't going to matter to the other owners - all they care about is if the Money is there to finance it, period. The money they care about is the one that goes into their pockets, which they stand to get the most from two teams - and by all indications thus far, the only stadium with two teams is Carson. Sure things are subject to change and they may - but I'm not buying any hype of inglewood housing two teams until I actually read something in favor of that saying that, instead of against it.




Not sure where you're getting the G4 information, nor do they need it with a $1.7 billion pledge from GS and still have the added option of PSL sales. Even if they don't reach the ridiculous amount of $800 million in PSL, even $400 - $500 million would be more than enough of a safe estimate in the LA area, especially with two teams..and as it stands now they're not needing the extra money.



Goldman makes mistakes all the time and they do lose money for investors. Serious issues from the real estate bubble for one. Heavily invested in tech companies in the late 90's and they will pull out of project if the return is not there. They gave a proposal to the Chargers and that's it. Think of it is getting pre qualified for a loan. If the situation changes then they deal will change. What if rates go up over the next year and the revenues go down then they might not be able to honor the guarantees. The construction at the earliest starts next fall so they won't be raising anything for about a year.

Goldman didn't pledge the whole cost of the stadium. The plan is based on Levi and they included G-4 loans in in the proposal along with PSL's and naming rights. Take any one of them out the deal gets riskier. More risk increases the return of the investors and Goldman but it costs the teams money plus they will need to borrow more. There's a limit to the amount they can borrow and the NFL will turn it down if it's not a good for the team even if the owners wants to do it.
 

The Ripper

Starter
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
794
Name
Rip
No offense, but these assertions that Kroenke has a leg up over Goldman Sachs based on how their financing is done or that the other owners are going to have a problem with their financing is just as ridiculous. If the moneys there up and front, its irrelevant.

You make it sound like they're going to move and not have the income or revenue to fix any future issues down the line - which isn't the case, at all.

Do you realize that Goldman gets paid so yes Kroenke has an advantage in financing. It's not irrelevant the finance committee will look at both the initial financing and the long term viability of the project. If any of it doesn't look good they won't recommend it. They will protect the financial interests of the team over the wishes of the owner.
 

iced

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
6,620
Goldman makes mistakes all the time and they do lose money for investors. Serious issues from the real estate bubble for one. Heavily invested in tech companies in the late 90's and they will pull out of project if the return is not there. They gave a proposal to the Chargers and that's it. Think of it is getting pre qualified for a loan. If the situation changes then they deal will change. What if rates go up over the next year and the revenues go down then they might not be able to honor the guarantees. The construction at the earliest starts next fall so they won't be raising anything for about a year.

Goldman didn't pledge the whole cost of the stadium. The plan is based on Levi and they included G-4 loans in in the proposal along with PSL's and naming rights. Take any one of them out the deal gets riskier. More risk increases the return of the investors and Goldman but it costs the teams money plus they will need to borrow more. There's a limit to the amount they can borrow and the NFL will turn it down if it's not a good for the team even if the owners wants to do it.

Carson doesn't have G4 as apart of their financing plan , nor would it be eligible. Think you might be getting the new San Diego plan and carson mixed up?
 

Moostache

Rookie
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
290
I just want this whole thing to go away already!!! It getting to be goddamn madness even trying to keep up with current issues.

I'm starting to feel like Charlie Brown watching Lucy hold 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 e football............arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
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Have an NFL vote and be done with it before the season so I can determine whether or not to make any plans on Sundays this fall or not! It is getting close to time to have to decide on a few things like trips or attending certain games or tailgates or bothering with the NFL at all.

Stop inconveniencing me NFL!
Make a decision, announce it and move on.
Besides, this distraction is taking away time I could otherwise be wasting on meaningless political debates!!! :p :LOL: :love:
 

OldSchool

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Carson doesn't have G4 as apart of their financing plan , nor would it be eligible. Think you might be getting the new San Diego plan and carson mixed up?

Yes, it does.

G4 loans are worded so that they can only be applied if there is no change in the teams home market. Neither of the LA area stadiums qualify based on that. There are other qualifications but that's the one that eliminates these 2 stadiums.
 

iced

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Yes, it does.

No, they're not eligible. And the last thing that was mentioned on their financing plan was that GS is pledging the whole amount, and they haven't revealed or made their investors for comment either.

And I don't believe the PSL's are included in their $1.7 guarantee either. Prior to that, the initial financing estimates had different numbers - always a partial pledge and PSL input before ultimately just guaranteeing the price of the stadium (as the their projection costs went up)
 
Last edited:

The Ripper

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iced

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RamBill

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Which NFL teams will win over Roger Goodell in Los Angeles relocation derby?
By Brent Schrotenboer, USA TODAY Sports

With three NFL owners pushing two competing stadium plans in Los Angeles County, the NFL soon might face the difficult task of deciding which teams will move into which stadium.

The league has said it only will support one new stadium capable of housing two teams in Los Angeles – but not two new stadiums to be occupied by three franchises. It ultimately could come down to a league vote between the San Diego Chargers, Oakland Raiders and St. Louis Rams.

And that's where the decision could get tricky, possibly even leading to bare-knuckle politicking among the team owners.

"If it's a popularity contest, then (Chargers owner) Dean Spanos wins, hands down," said Marc Ganis, a consultant who has worked with many NFL owners. "I don't think that's what it will end up being, but if it came down to that, then Dean Spanos wins. More relevant is who would operate a more successful football franchise in Los Angeles. On that criteria, he also wins. The Rams and Raiders, unfortunately, have two of the worst records in the NFL in last five to 10 years."

Relocation requires approval from 24 of the league's 32 owners, with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell possibly making a recommendation on the proposals if a negotiated solution isn't reached first. Among the other factors to weigh:

Three's a crowd: Ever since the Raiders and Rams left Los Angeles in 1995, only one NFL franchise has occupied Southern California – the Chargers in San Diego, whose nearest NFL neighbor is about 300 miles away in Arizona.

It's a hugely populous and lucrative market that easily could sustain two NFL teams, but probably not three, a person familiar with the league's views on the situation told USA TODAY Sports.

Having the Chargers in San Diego and two other teams in Los Angeles is a bigger business risk than makes sense, said the person, who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the situation.

That's because the Chargers currently draw about 25 percent of their local revenues from nearby Orange and Los Angeles counties – a stream that could run dry if even one NFL team moves into their backyard, not to mention two.

This could mean either two teams move to Los Angeles, including the Chargers. Or one team could move to Los Angeles, with the Chargers staying in San Diego. But the latter scenario appears to be in peril because any vote for a new stadium in San Diego probably won't come until next year, when it might be too late for the Chargers.

Team relocation requests for 2016 might be filed by the end of the year. The Chargers and Raiders also face an April 30 deadline in their joint pursuit of a $1.7 billion stadium in Carson, Calif., a suburb of Los Angeles. If no decision is made by then to move there, Carson would be free to pursue other plans for that property.

-- Taking care of California first: St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kroenke is backing his own plan in Inglewood, a $1.86 billion stadium that would be part of a larger entertainment and retail complex near the L.A. airport.

But if Kroenke wants to move his team into that stadium, he could face resistance from those who believe that the league should find stadium solutions for its teams already in California before it allows another team to move from another state.

It's a serious issue, said the person familiar with the situation. Ganis agrees.

"That is something that I've heard," said Ganis, who helped the Raiders and Rams relocate to Oakland and St. Louis in 1995. "You've got two situations in California (with the Raiders and Chargers) that have been intractable on a long-term basis."

The L.A. stadium derby has gained increased urgency recently because each of the three teams is unhappy in its current stadium and would now be able to leave their leases without a prohibitive penalty.

With only two spots available in Los Angeles, fear has become a driving factor. Each team dreads being the one left out of Los Angeles while the other two strike it rich in a swanky new stadium. If that happened, the team that got left out of Los Angeles would have to return to its current market with little leverage to improve its stadium situation there.

-- Home cooking: Kroenke also has an image problem. Many believe he hasn't tried very hard to stay in St. Louis recently, even though officials there are proposing a $985 million stadium, with $250 million coming from state and city bonds, plus tax credits.

"Clubs are obligated to work diligently and in good faith to obtain and to maintain suitable stadium facilities in their home territories, and to operate in a manner that maximizes fan support in their current home communities," the league's relocation policy states.

Ganis said this could work against Kroenke because "it's well-known among the owners that he has not engaged in an active way with the St. Louis parties."

By contrast, Spanos and the Chargers been trying to get a new stadium in San Diego for more than a decade.

"If St. Louis steps up and comes up with the funding, and the Carson project continues to add viability (for the Raiders and Chargers), it's hard to see the league approving a relocation of the Rams, pursuant to its own relocation rules," Ganis said.

Efforts are underway to keep all three teams in their current markets. If one or two are able to succeed, that could make the decision easy. Maybe one of the teams opts for the stadium proposal being offered in its current market, allowing the other two to move to Los Angeles without a fight. But what if Kroenke is determined to move into his stadium in Inglewood regardless of what he's offered in St. Louis?

Ganis does not believe Kroenke will try to move to Los Angeles without league approval because the league could make life miserable for him in retaliation. "It would be one of the few ways he could screw up an otherwise wonderful life," Ganis said.

--The greater good: Kroenke's Inglewood project appears to be the most attractive of the two stadium proposals right now, partly because it's been in the works longer, Ganis and the person familiar with the situation said. The long-term attractiveness of the development will be a factor in this race, which leads to other considerations.

What if the league likes Kroenke's stadium proposal but doesn't want the Rams to leave St. Louis?

The person estimated it's about 90-percent certain the Rams would occupy Kroenke's stadium if it gets built.

The league also wants any L.A. stadium to be capable of hosting two NFL tenants. So which team would take the second spot in Kroenke's stadium if the Rams move there?

In this scenario, the person said, Kroenke has agreed to let the league decide which other team would occupy his stadium – a move that might not happen right away.

Kroenke still might be the easiest of the three owners to block in a vote among owners. All it takes is nine owners to reject a relocation proposal, and at least two teams can be counted on to vote against Kroenke right now – the Raiders and Chargers.

An alliance could form against him based on the relocation guidelines, the desire to favor the California teams first and Spanos' relative popularity.

But the person familiar with the situation said owners often form initial alliances only to later make decisions based on the league's – and their own -- best long-term best interests.

That's why Ganis believes Goodell will play the key role in this. Working for all the owners, Goodell would recommend what is best for the league and not just one or two teams.

"There's a lot more to this than just who can build the stadium," Ganis said. "That's been the focus, but what Roger Goodell has to focus on is: Who is going to operate the best in Los Angeles? And that's his responsibility, and that's why I'd say about half the owners will follow his lead, whatever he recommends."
 

The Ripper

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That's also 3 months old, with several changes including price of the stadium coming between now and then, especially since Goldman Sachs pledged the $1.7 billion to the project a month later.

It's still part of the financing proposal. Goldman was on board from the beginning and that's when they pledged the money not a month later. Where did anyone associated with the project say no G-4? That's one of the reasons people keep saying it's a bluff. If you can find it post it because I would like to see it not trying to fight but I have never seen anywhere that the Chargers, Raiders or Goldman has said the G-4 is out
 

iced

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It's still part of the financing proposal. Goldman was on board from the beginning and that's when they pledged the money not a month later. Where did anyone associated with the project say no G-4? That's one of the reasons people keep saying it's a bluff. If you can find it post it because I would like to see it not trying to fight but I have never seen anywhere that the Chargers, Raiders or Goldman has said the G-4 is out

I can't find anything within the past 2 months that says anything about G4. I know the initial comment was made by Fabiani, and he had said he thought the nfl would support it - then nothing since, especially since it would violate the rules of the g4 and he's met with the owners twice now (one meeting in march, one last week)..And between now and then, the biggest theme we've been hearing is about GS's pledge and PSL's. No mention of the G4.. . That's why I say he's backed off it.

And I don't think the NFL will take issue with the financing of LA either since they didn't take issue with Santa Clara - which LA is modeled after, and in an even bigger market.

edit - by the way, Sachs has not only pledged to finance the stadium but also finance the renovations needed for any temporary stadiums they would play in in the mean time.... And then cover their losses...

I don't think there's an issue in financing :ROFLMAO:

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2015/03/02/Finance/Goldman-Chargers.aspx

Goldman Sachs will finance the San Diego Chargers’ prospective move to Los Angeles, including covering any operating losses suffered by the team in the first few years in that city as well as costs for any renovations needed in a temporary venue, sources said last week.
 
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The Ripper

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I can't find anything within the past 2 months that says anything about G4. I know the initial comment was made by Fabiani, and he had said he thought the nfl would support it - then nothing since, especially since it would violate the rules of the g4 and he's met with the owners twice now (one meeting in march, one last week)..And between now and then, the biggest theme we've been hearing is about GS's pledge and PSL's. No mention of the G4.. . That's why I say he's backed off it.

And I don't think the NFL will take issue with the financing of LA either since they didn't take issue with Santa Clara - which LA is modeled after, and in an even bigger market.


Here is something from last month in regards to the Carson meeting. The G-4 is in there. It was presented at the Carson meeting last month. It's only 400 or 500 million but little changes have significant impact on the viability of a project

http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2015/4/22/8465563/some-thoughts-about-the-carson-stadium-project
 

iced

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Here is something from last month in regards to the Carson meeting. The G-4 is in there. It was presented at the Carson meeting last month. It's only 400 or 500 million but little changes have significant impact on the viability of a project

http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2015/4/22/8465563/some-thoughts-about-the-carson-stadium-project

you just reminded me of something - the owners voted to allow teams to increase their "debt"

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com...gues-and-Governing-Bodies/NFL-debt-limit.aspx
Published May 25, 2015, Page 35



The NFL last week increased its team debt limit by 25 percent, or $50 million, to $250 million per club, only the second increase in 10 years in how much franchises can borrow. Owners unanimously approved the increase at their spring meeting in San Francisco. The move comes amid sky...

^ That's not the G4 loan either
 

bluecoconuts

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Mentioning their $85 billion had nothing to do with pointing out their equity but their past history of success and obvious experience in this area.

Yes I'm sure doing 30 stadium deals over the past 10 years had no effect on their net worth or revenue

You're changing what I'm saying. I didn't say that their previous stadium deals had no effect on their net worth. I'm saying that's not what made them rich. Goldman Sachs was founded in 1869, they were a successful company long before they started dabbling in stadium deals.

that's because "the report" doesn't cover all angles of revenue - owners will start be getting money through bunch of various revenue streams, the biggest being TV revenue. This is the biggest reason why I am saying the point is moot - think about it. Last years share was just over $200 million per owner, just in TV. With the presence in LA, expect that number to jump, especially over time..And over 10 years - thats $2 billlion alone in Spanos's or Davis's pockets, 4 billion combined...with still other streams..and that's not even including the big bump in revenue they're going to get once a team is in LA.

That's the biggest reason why "down the line" is irrelevant. and by the way, Carson is expected to be $500 million, with those "initial projections" being claimed incorrect by Fabiani (Of course, but in a mud slinging battle credibility tends to drop on both sides)

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-carson-football-stadium-study-20150420-story.html
And again, that's only based on one team ^. City "losses" are the not the same thing as NFL losses or what else the owner gets to put in his pocket. They're not gonna sit in Carson losing money for the next 30 years. By the way, one big piece of information that most of your projections are missing

You're talking about revenue that goes to the NFL and the owners, I'm talking about revenue that goes to the city. If they're the ones responsible for the stadium upkeep, and it's safe to assume that's the case given that it's owned and operated by Carson Stadium Authority, then either the owners need to set aside additional funds to maintenance and upkeep of the stadium, or more likely Carson needs to find that money.

That is most certainly the perception you give off when you say things like "Investors have a cut off point" or "are they going to help them down the line" etc.

Investors do have a cut off point, that's a pretty important part of investing. That's not saying they cant afford the stadium, that's pointing out that the statement of "We have Goldman Sachs, we have more money." is incorrect because it doesn't work that way.

Not really - you just can't compare Stadiums, you have to compare the whole big picture. What happens to the other owners? Carson - everyone gets a new stadium, adds another market without subtracting one, and ups the most revenue. Inglewood? Leaving St.Louis market while leaving Spanos and Davis in their old stadiums, left in the cold.

No it doesn't, Carson is a stadium that can house two teams. There are three teams trying to get to LA. One team doesn't get it and thus doesn't have a stadium. Inglewood is a stadium that can house two teams. There are three teams trying to get to LA. One team doesn't get it and thus doesn't have a stadium. Implying that Carson solves all three implies that Kroenke wants St Louis, and everything seems to suggest otherwise. Either way if two teams move to LA then two teams lose a market. Raiders and Chargers moving does not just simply add another market, you're losing both of their current ones.

Inglewood gets two teams in LA and has more revenue than Carson.
 

OldSchool

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Here is something from last month in regards to the Carson meeting. The G-4 is in there. It was presented at the Carson meeting last month. It's only 400 or 500 million but little changes have significant impact on the viability of a project

http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2015/4/22/8465563/some-thoughts-about-the-carson-stadium-project

I've said it more than a couple times in this thread and here is an article that goes into detail the G4 loan program. On my iPad so copy and pasting isn't happening right now more than just the url.

http://buffalorising.com/2014/07/new-stadium-prospectus-finance-truth-misconceptions-part-1-of-6/
 

Hacksaw

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I think the difference is that Stan is likely getting the money at a much better rate and therefore his cost of borrowing would be less. Being that Stan has the assets to more than cover the loan and neither Davis nor Spanos do even combined, they will be paying more for their money. Adding in Goldman Sachs probably saves them money in that GS can probably find the best money deals by doing such things as selling points that Spanos and Davis simply can't do. But the bottom line is that Stan's money is almost undoubtedly going to come at a much cheaper rate.
He likely has million/billion + dollar lines of credit and that is all part of his cash flow. He could write a check but that's still a form of a loan. Who knows. his interest rate could be triple digits on the right side of the decimal point.
 

The Ripper

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I've said it more than a couple times in this thread and here is an article that goes into detail the G4 loan program. On my iPad so copy and pasting isn't happening right now more than just the url.

http://buffalorising.com/2014/07/new-stadium-prospectus-finance-truth-misconceptions-part-1-of-6/

I have the resolution saved somewhere. My point isn't on the details or whether the teams are eligible it's that they have G-4 listed as part of the financing for Carson
 

OldSchool

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I have the resolution saved somewhere. My point isn't on the details or whether the teams are eligible it's that they have G-4 listed as part of the financing for Carson

Wouldn't be the first time a reported was wrong on an article.
 
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