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den-the-coach

Fifty-four Forty or Fight
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
22,504
Name
Dennis
Man it has been a long time since I've thought of Captain Kangaroo. I always preferred my captains to have a bit more hair.
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
captain-caveman-color-3.jpg

Or with my background...A mighty Shield!
 

Hacksaw

ROCK HARD STUD
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
451
I'm having trouble understanding why this is so hard for some to understand. Options on a lease aren't even rare, it's common. These just happen to be one sided.

We're just splitting hairs over a term. Semantics. The end result, whether it be called a default, breach or whatever, is the same thing.
Still I owe Sum 1 an apology for arguing against his pount.
 
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Hacksaw

ROCK HARD STUD
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
451
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I've seen the baseball town label slapped more on STL than any other city. It's freaking stupid.
My guess is that it's because your baseball team is really good and the Cardinals fans are awesome. Also for a while the only other pro sports team in town was the Blues until the Rams came. It probably just stuck. Maybe? Does it seem like that's a bad thing?
 

iced

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
6,620
You are comparing apples to oranges with the Cardinals stadium situation. They played in a BASEBALL stadium that was operated by the baseball team. So them having "issues" with maintaining the stadium is no where near the same thing here.

I have also read you say many times throughout this thread that the city of STL, didn't uphold their end of the lease. Somehow BREACHING it. That is not even remotely accurate. This whole thing played out exactly how EVERYONE envisioned it would. As far back as 3 years ago, when the topic of "top tier" first reared its ugly head, Kevin Demoff laid out the entire scenario to season ticket holders at one the the luncheons the team held. He said at that time, that the team would make a proposal based on their interpretation of what "top tier" was, as would the CVC. He laid out all the scenarios, including the one that actually occurred. The two parties would be far apart on what they thought would bring the dome in line with the clause.

He also stated, that arbitration would be likely. It has been discussed, that the CVC waited too long to explore options in terms of an alternate stadium. Per the lease, NEITHER party could explore any options that didn't involve the dome. As the Rams were tied to the lease, so was the CVC. It was only after it went to the arbitrator, could either party look at any other options, be it local or otherwise. The CVC excercised is right to decline the arbitrator's decision. This was part of the lease. Therefore, no breach.

Demoff even suggested that the Rams "may" push the envelop and be very aggressive in what they hoped for regarding the dome upgrades. Translation----- our proposal will be such that the CVC will NOT be able to agree to it. So lets stop with the idea that the city of STL and CVC somehow "dropped the ball" here, and that is why this is all happening. The end game all along for the Rams was to get a new facility. Demoff made that perfectly clear. He also went so far as to say "HE" preferred an outdoor stadium as it would make selling premium seating easier. Again, this was THREE YEARS AGO.

What I don't ever see brought up in this discussion..... if the CVC would have accepted the decision, and went ahead with the $700M upgrades, they would have forced the team to find somewhere to play for however long it took to complete the upgrade. The ONLY likely facility would have been to play the games at Mizzou (125 miles west of STL). The other part of that scenario, the convention business would have been lost, costing the CVC even more in lost revenue. So this was never going to be considered, and the Rams knew it.

The thing that was never discussed (for obvious reasons) was the idea of them looking to LA as one of the alternative options.

Couldn't be more accurate Goose - and hopefully it puts this rewritten history to bed.

Further more, I think the idea of this area as a period of "Good faith" while ignoring progress on the Riverfront stadium doesn't make any sense - it goes against the idea of why its there, to get a friggin' stadium built. They don't care about timing as much they get one - otherwise every single owner who never got their stadium according to their time schedule could build one, which i'd call bs on. The NFL cares more about getting a stadium deal with as much public money up front as possible - thats the big difference between the Carson and St.Louis stadiums have that San Diego doesn't (their proposal is contingent on other things to bring in money, like selling land for $225 million, etc.).

My guess is that it's because your baseball team is really good and the Cardinals fans are awesome. Also for a while the only other pro sports team in town was the Blues until the Rams came. It probably just stuck. Maybe? Does it seem like that's a bad thing?

It's an inaccurate perception...New York wasn't only a Yankee town when they were decent; and I'm betting there's a fair number of people who would take issue with LA being a "basketball" town
 
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blue4

Hall of Fame
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Jun 25, 2014
Messages
3,126
Name
blue4
We're just splitting hairs over a term. Semantics. The end result, whether it be called a default, breach or whatever, is the same thing.
Still I owe Sum 1 an apology for arguing against his pount.

The problem is that they aren't the same thing, especially when two sides are angling for owner votes. A breach or default is something bad against STL. An option is an ordinary occurrence that all of these billionaires (and most of us just not on this scale) deal with everyday. You're right that we are all talking about a result that happened, but framing it as a breach has a negative connotation against the city. Which is why we've been strenuously objecting to the term even though we may be talking about the same thing.
 

Hacksaw

ROCK HARD STUD
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
451
ok fellas have it your way. the CVC promise the Rams a top 25% Stadium and didn't deliver it. nothing wrong there. It gives no one the impression that they did anything wrong. it's just a simple difference of opinion and St Louis is all good
 

CodeMonkey

Possibly the OH but cannot self-identify
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
3,449
My guess is that it's because your baseball team is really good and the Cardinals fans are awesome. Also for a while the only other pro sports team in town was the Blues until the Rams came. It probably just stuck. Maybe? Does it seem like that's a bad thing?
I don't hear LA referred to as a "basketball town".
 

Moostache

Rookie
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
290
My guess is that it's because your baseball team is really good and the Cardinals fans are awesome. Also for a while the only other pro sports team in town was the Blues until the Rams came. It probably just stuck. Maybe? Does it seem like that's a bad thing?

Being called a "baseball" town has been a backhanded compliment and disguised insult to St. Louis for years. Its the same thing as labelling someone as being "really good at what they do, for a {insert minority group here}" or asking someone "when do you plan to stop beating your wife?".

The St. Louis Cardinals baseball team and overall organization is something to behold though. They are a model of consistency and fan-friendly environments. As a Chicagoland transplant to St. Louis nearly 25 years ago, I can say that the Cardinals organization, especially over the last 15 years (which is no coincidence exactly when they were seriously challenged by the SUCCESSFUL Rams of the GSOT era for city supremacy) where they have been to the playoffs on a nearly annual basis have played in the World Series on multiple occasions and have won world championships in 2006 and 2011 has been astounding to witness. Even more so in light of my 22 years in Chicago, where 2 franchises COMBINED went to the playoffs only 4 times out of 44 possibilities (a whopping 90% failure rate) and won no world championships until the White Sox finally did so back in '05.

OF COURSE St. Louis is a "Cardinals" town!!! For god's sake, if you put them in ANY city in the country and gave that city's NFL team the record of the Rams from 2003-2014 and allowed the Cardinals the same record they have produced in that same time frame, I GUARANTEE you that every single city would have the label of "Cardinals' city"! Even in freaking Green Bay! People love a winner, always have and always will; but people so quickly forgot just how crazy the environment and game day experience of the GSOT really WAS! In 2001, while the Rams were in the third year of that historic run, tickets to the Rams games were way more coveted than Cardinals tickets. The town was energized by that team, even in 2000 when the defense collapsed and the team struggled to get into the playoffs at all (remember, it took a missed Detroit FG against the Bears to even get into that Wild Card game in New Orleans that year) the place was packed and the fans appreciated the team and its accomplishments.
 

CoachO

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ok fellas have it your way. the CVC promise the Rams a top 25% Stadium and didn't deliver it. nothing wrong there. It gives no one the impression that they did anything wrong. it's just a simple difference of opinion and St Louis is all good
See, that is where the disconnect lies. They didn't PROMISE anything. The part of the lease that included the "top tier" clause was just that. And IF they were unable to meet that very subjective definition, they had the right to excercise, within the terms of the lease, the option to void the remaining years and go year to year.

They did NOTHING that violates the lease as it was written. They CHOSE to exercise a clause IN THE LEASE that gave them the right to walk away, converting the lease to a year to year starting in 2015. And also, those who seem to think that this clause somehow carries over to the NEW Riverfront Stadium project, really aren't paying attention. The "top-tier" clause ended when they chose to decline the arbitrator's ruling.

I am not going to try to convince anyone that Kroenke isn't serious about the LA option. But referring back to my earlier post regarding Demoff's commentary from the ST luncheon, there is nothing to suggest that the Rams aren't interested in seeing the Riverfront Stadium projuect through, and won't be completely on board with it once the final details and negotiations begin. And by negotiations, I mean the additional revenue streams that can and will be made available to the Rams, that they don't currently enjoy at the Dome.

IMO, this is exactly what Demoff was referring to, when he stated "things will get ugly before they get better!".
 
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bluecoconuts

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Still, the point is that the lease being year to year now isn't Kroenke's fault and isn't going to be used against him. There wasn't a clause that the Rams didn't meet (be it by choice or whatever) that allowed the triggering of year to year.
 

RamFan503

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That's just the lease summary and they use default and the term to terminate the lease. In a standard commercial lease the Default and Remedies clause defines what constitutes a default breach of the lease by both Tenant and Landlord, and lays out the remedies both parties can take to resolve the other’s breach.
But the info in the link you provided does neither. You may want to read that again. And I do think it is a section from a research paper - not a section from the contract itself. If it is from the negotiated changes, then it was amateur hour at the Apollo.

TERMINATION OF LEASE:
CVC:
Each of the following occurrences shall constitute a default on the part of CVC:
 Failing to pay any sum due and payable to the rams hereunder or fail to perform any other covenant or obligation on its part to be performed hereunder and such failure shall remain uncured for sixty days after delivery to CVC of written notice thereof
 Failing to perform any obligation to be performed by CVC and such failure shall result in the cancellation or postponement of any NFL game
RAMS: The following occurrence shall constitute a default on the part of the RAMS:
 Failing to pay any sum due and payable to the RAMS hereunder or fail to perform any other covenant or obligation on its part to be performed hereunder and such failure shall remain uncured for sixty days after delivery to RAMS of written notice thereof

Man that IS a one sided deal. :D
 

CoachO

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Still, the point is that the lease being year to year now isn't Kroenke's fault and isn't going to be used against him. There wasn't a clause that the Rams didn't meet (be it by choice or whatever) that allowed the triggering of year to year.
From merely a strict interpretation of the lease, you are correct. Although, a strong argument can be made that the Rams played to the loophole in the clause by proposing something that was so outrageous that they knew it would never be approved.

The arbitrator was in a position of "all or nothing" when making the ruling. If the Rams were more "reasonable" in their interpretation, we wouldn't be where we are. Bottom line for me, this all played out exactly how the Rams envisioned, they wanted a new facility. PERIOD. They knew the only way to ensure that was to force the hand of the CVC and propose something so outrageous it had zero chance of being accepted.

Again, by the strict interpretation, they did nothing outside of the scope here. But we then go back to the negotiate in "good faith" argument that is much more subjective in league circles.
 

iced

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From merely a strict interpretation of the lease, you are correct. Although, a strong argument can be made that the Rams played to the loophole in the clause by proposing something that was so outrageous that they knew it would never be approved.

The arbitrator was in a position of "all or nothing" when making the ruling. If the Rams were more "reasonable" in their interpretation, we wouldn't be where we are. Bottom line for me, this all played out exactly how the Rams envisioned, they wanted a new facility. PERIOD. They knew the only way to ensure that was to force the hand of the CVC and propose something so outrageous it had zero chance of being accepted.

Again, by the strict interpretation, they did nothing outside of the scope here. But we then go back to the negotiate in "good faith" argument that is much more subjective in league circles.

Exactly why I don't buy how that helps Kroenke "in good faith"

And I'm not sure not many owners are gonna be very fond of that line of BS either - look at the renovations being done to the Atlanta stadium.. $1.2 billion in renovation, $200 million in public funds, with an added $200 million from the NFL, and the remaining $800 million coming from Blank,the NFL, and PSL's.

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/23818874/cost-of-falcons-stadium-rises-by-200-million

Taxpayers won't fork over the extra money. The public portion of the plan, which is made up of funds raised from hotel-motel taxes, remains $200 million.

The NFL is chipping in another $200 million, with the remaining $800 million coming from the Falcons, team owner Arthur Blank and the sale of personal seat licenses.

Compare that to the Kroenke's plan for arbitration, which everyone knew the CVC wouldn't accept and wanted $700 million without saying how much if any funds they would contribute

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_052182d2-3091-5132-be1a-6a8c5bde9e70.html

For starters, the Rams' proposal would cost more than $700 million, compared to the CVC's $124 million proposal, said Jeff Rainford, Slay's chief of staff. And the construction involved would cost some big downtown conventions, bleeding an additional $500 million from the local economy, he said.

The Rams' vision for the Dome — a 38-page renovation plan marked "confidential" several times — became public after it was released by the office of Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster.

The plan is a counteroffer to the CVC's proposal earlier this year, which the Rams have rejected. The CVC plan proposed capping the public subsidy for renovations at $60 million, calling for the team to cover the rest.

Yea, I'm sure other owners look at that offer and believe it was "Realistic" or "in good faith"
 

The Ripper

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From merely a strict interpretation of the lease, you are correct. Although, a strong argument can be made that the Rams played to the loophole in the clause by proposing something that was so outrageous that they knew it would never be approved.

The arbitrator was in a position of "all or nothing" when making the ruling. If the Rams were more "reasonable" in their interpretation, we wouldn't be where we are. Bottom line for me, this all played out exactly how the Rams envisioned, they wanted a new facility. PERIOD. They knew the only way to ensure that was to force the hand of the CVC and propose something so outrageous it had zero chance of being accepted.

Again, by the strict interpretation, they did nothing outside of the scope here. But we then go back to the negotiate in "good faith" argument that is much more subjective in league circles.


The panel could have come with it's own plan but they said there was no reason for them to do so. Page 5.
The Rams plan would produce a top tier facility and that was enough for them to just end it without doing more work.


https://www.scribd.com/doc/123413755/Arbitrators-Report-Rams-CVC
 

bluecoconuts

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Messages
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From merely a strict interpretation of the lease, you are correct. Although, a strong argument can be made that the Rams played to the loophole in the clause by proposing something that was so outrageous that they knew it would never be approved.

The arbitrator was in a position of "all or nothing" when making the ruling. If the Rams were more "reasonable" in their interpretation, we wouldn't be where we are. Bottom line for me, this all played out exactly how the Rams envisioned, they wanted a new facility. PERIOD. They knew the only way to ensure that was to force the hand of the CVC and propose something so outrageous it had zero chance of being accepted.

Again, by the strict interpretation, they did nothing outside of the scope here. But we then go back to the negotiate in "good faith" argument that is much more subjective in league circles.

The arbitrator ruled that the Rams proposal put the dome in the top 25%, if the Rams had made a proposal that didn't put them in the top 25% they wouldn't have said so.

Are you saying that the Rams should have made a lower offer? Because that makes no sense, why would they do that? The CVC said no for obvious reasons, but they could have made some sort of counteroffer. You're faulting the Rams for making an unacceptable offer, but the offer originally made by the CVC was arguably more unacceptable, because it didn't get them into the top 25%.

Yes, maybe the Rams wanted a new facility, but they didn't walk away from the table, the CVC did, how is that Kroenke's fault? Is he supposed to just become a horrible negotiator just so he can say he did so in good faith?
 

BuiltRamTough

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The arbitrator ruled that the Rams proposal put the dome in the top 25%, if the Rams had made a proposal that didn't put them in the top 25% they wouldn't have said so.

Are you saying that the Rams should have made a lower offer? Because that makes no sense, why would they do that? The CVC said no for obvious reasons, but they could have made some sort of counteroffer. You're faulting the Rams for making an unacceptable offer, but the offer originally made by the CVC was arguably more unacceptable, because it didn't get them into the top 25%.

Yes, maybe the Rams wanted a new facility, but they didn't walk away from the table, the CVC did, how is that Kroenke's fault? Is he supposed to just become a horrible negotiator just so he can say he did so in good faith?
This whole CVC thing is very straightforward and simple, it was a bad lease from the get go and the Rams took advantage of it. Sure we could say that maybe Stan could of said let's forget the lease and let's work something out but he didnt and I wouldn't either, this is business. This is the NFL.
 

Hacksaw

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See, that is where the disconnect lies. They didn't PROMISE anything. The part of the lease that included the "top tier" clause was just that. And IF they were unable to meet that very subjective definition, they had the right to excercise, within the terms of the lease, the option to void the remaining years and go year to year.

They did NOTHING that violates the lease as it was written. They CHOSE to exercise a clause IN THE LEASE that gave them the right to walk away, converting the lease to a year to year starting in 2015. And also, those who seem to think that this clause somehow carries over to the NEW Riverfront Stadium project, really aren't paying attention. The "top-tier" clause ended when they chose to decline the arbitrator's ruling.

I am not going to try to convince anyone that Kroenke isn't serious about the LA option. But referring back to my earlier post regarding Demoff's commentary from the ST luncheon, there is nothing to suggest that the Rams aren't interested in seeing the Riverfront Stadium projuect through, and won't be completely on board with it once the final details and negotiations begin. And by negotiations, I mean the additional revenue streams that can and will be made available to the Rams, that they don't currently enjoy at the Dome.

IMO, this is exactly what Demoff was referring to, when he stated "things will get ugly before they get better!".
I get what you're saying and see your point but I doubt it'll make a damn bit of difference
We'll just have to wait and see how it shakes out.
 

CoachO

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The arbitrator ruled that the Rams proposal put the dome in the top 25%, if the Rams had made a proposal that didn't put them in the top 25% they wouldn't have said so.

Are you saying that the Rams should have made a lower offer? Because that makes no sense, why would they do that? The CVC said no for obvious reasons, but they could have made some sort of counteroffer. You're faulting the Rams for making an unacceptable offer, but the offer originally made by the CVC was arguably more unacceptable, because it didn't get them into the top 25%.

Yes, maybe the Rams wanted a new facility, but they didn't walk away from the table, the CVC did, how is that Kroenke's fault? Is he supposed to just become a horrible negotiator just so he can say he did so in good faith?
The top 25% was subjective on a number of different levels. The Rams included a retractable roof for example, which was NOT necessary to achieve top 25%.

They included expanding concourses, entry points, etc. All which were part of their "wish list" but in no way were pertinent to achieving "top tier". So to answer your question, they absolutely could have come in with a "lesser" proposal and still met the SUBJECTIVE criteria for top tier.
 
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