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bluecoconuts

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-Agree Spanos turning down money is same as STL turning down Stan. But Spanos didn't terminate the lease to do it and rush into LA. Spanos is in a lot better standing with other owners. It makes a huge difference

San Diego didn't fail to live up to their side of the lease agreement either. Kroenke didn't just decide to move to a year to year lease for shits and giggles, he used an option that was in place after St Louis breached the contract.
 

OldSchool

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Yes, I am speculating. Just like the guys who saw Spanos and Davis having dinner with NFL brass at the owners meetings. You are correct.
Hahaha shall we dig up all the pictures of Stan with the other owners at the meetings? Or all the articles praising Stan for his efforts to work through the process correctly?

When you're finally able to acknowledge like the rest of us that we have idea how the process will play out you'll start being honest with yourself. I don't know what will happen but we know some facts. How the owners will vote is up in the air. All three looking to move can be seen eating/drinking/talking with other owners at the meetings(this really shouldn't be a surprise). We know the majority of the financial details but not all of them. Anything we say in here or elsewhere until the owners vote and announce that vote is speculation.
 

OldSchool

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Exactly. Things like this make you scratch your head when it relates to Carson. Why do some people call Carson a bluff but not Inglewood?
FYI I never said Carson was a bluff. But the land for the stadium is not in fact owned by the Chargers, Raiders or a company owned by either team. It is owned by the city of Carson and managed by the city. The Chargers and the Raiders created a company to manage the 11 acre parcel they purchased for a parking garage.
 

iced

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Well if you listen to people like Bernie, you would assume that the Inglewood deal has been in the works since 2010. I don't buy that and I certainly don't buy that Spanos would have been pushing the Carson deal if not for the Inglewood project.

just thought it was interesting that they had called it, and several owners had kept insisting we were going to have a team in LA before anything had been announced...


Why did they wait to announce Carson until after Inglewood was announced?

Spanos forced his hand - he's already said he would have had another year to negotiate with SD had kroenke not made his moves...
 

mr.stlouis

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PSL's are revenues of the owner and not public money. The original proposal in St Louis had them in there but it has been removed.

Absolutely no one can speculate on the votes until a vote is taken. Just too many variables.

Those at the survey meetings were asked if they would buy PSL's. You can't tell me it's off the table.

From what I've read the Chargers and SD are going to start negotiations from June 1. The proposal is going to look much different then it is now.

Fair. LA makes magic happen in home markets.
 

BuiltRamTough

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I live in LA, I listen to local radio shows via podcasts and occasionally when watching the news on TV, almost everyone thinks Inglewood is the site that is going to be chosen. Radio shows and ppl in SD think Carson is a big bluff. The thing they're only worried about is the Chargers playing in Inglewood. Sam Farmer the head honcho when it comes to LA and the NFL thinks Inglewood is going to happen. He said numerous times that he would be stunned and surprised if 2 teams play in LA next season. It's risky business dropping 2 teams in LA and saying here pay psl money and fill 80,000 seats for both.
 

The Ripper

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just thought it was interesting that they had called it, and several owners had kept insisting we were going to have a team in LA before anything had been announced...


Spanos forced his hand - he's already said he would have had another year to negotiate with SD had kroenke not made his moves...

It wasn't just Kroenke that forced his hand. There were rumors that Michael was the one looking at the land in Carson and that there had been issues between the brothers.
 

mr.stlouis

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This is possibly correct. But it also screws up the entire deal if there are any issues that delay it even more or make it actually undoable. Goldman Sachs is a big plus but the potential issues lying underground and a couple other legal issues are a bit of an unknown here and I can't imagine the NFL wants grey areas when it comes to solving the LA market.


Spanos has alienated plenty over the years. You assume they have gone through the process the right way because it has taken so long. I doubt you have much more than that to go on. Spanos has turned down just about everything because there was not enough public funding or the site that used to be acceptable is not quite to his liking as the down town site.

Davis (daddy) already left Oakland against the wishes of Oak and the NFL. Then he returned to Oak without really getting approval to do so. You think the NFL views that as doing it right? And I'm not talking sound bites from Mr. Saynothingwithacraploadofwords Grubman

No one knows who has what votes in all honesty.


Two hour drive? You may want to try that before holding to that line of thinking.

We could argue the fan base issue all day and the only thing we have that is close to proof is the LA Times poll that showed a much stronger Rams fan base in LA than the other two.


If you count the rent Spanos will be paying and not the rent Stan will be paying then discount the money Spanos will receive from PSLs that Stan will be paying, you might be able to come to these conclusions. In all honesty, the splits are pretty equal and the SD stadium is $1.1 to construct.


First off, Spanos' own claim through Fabiani was 25% not 33. Second, that has never been substantiated and the last interview I heard with Fabiani, he just kind of glossed over the question. I don't buy I. But then again, I don't buy much of what Spanos or Fabiani say. Too many years of BS coming from those two. So I suppose I'm biased.


They may be struggling to get "acceptable" deals for a stadium in their home markets but the Raiduhs and Chargers aren't exactly struggling to fill their current stadiums.


Goldman Sachs may have more money under their control but they wouldn't necessarily be able to free up more money for this one project or be able to gather more funding toward a single project than Stan and his wife. How much money GS has in all this is a moot point as everyone knows Stan is more than capable of taking care of his end. The only thing that matters is if GS presents a financing proposal that works for them, the two teams, the city of Carson, and the NFL and if Stan does the same. If they sign on the dotted line that they will do it then that part is pretty much equal.

I think the biggest thing Inglewood has going for it besides being practically shovel ready is that there is relatively little question on what is under the ground once the dozers begin their work. An almost guaranteed 2 year earlier completion date certainly doesn't hurt but the idea that they could start to dig and end up with a toxic wasteland might just give the NFL pause.

What you stated is the best thing Inglewood has going for it.
 

The Ripper

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Those at the survey meetings were asked if they would buy PSL's. You can't tell me it's off the table.

Fair. LA makes magic happen in home markets.

PSL's aren't off the table the revenues are the owners and it's the owners choice if they go into the funds for the stadium. The original proposal had them on the wrong side of the chart. They're not considered public money.

LA is only used as leverage because there isn't a team currently in the market. Indy, Phoenix, St Louis, Baltimore and others were used before LA
 
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bluecoconuts

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What you stated is the best thing Inglewood has going for it.

I think the best thing Inglewood has going for it is that it's part of a larger complex that offers much more long term security and backing from an owner who can make it happen beyond construction of the stadium. Kroenke wont invest 2 billion dollars and let the market fail, Spanos and Davis don't have that same ability.
 

Sum1

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San Diego didn't fail to live up to their side of the lease agreement either. Kroenke didn't just decide to move to a year to year lease for shits and giggles, he used an option that was in place after St Louis breached the contract.
St. Louis was not in breach of contract. A term of the contract was triggered by the building not being in the top 25% of the league. Nothing about the contract was broken, only an option was triggered. St. louis could have kept that option from being triggered but did not.

Neither side broke the contract nor failed to keep up their end of the bargain.
 

BuiltRamTough

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IMO the league needs to ensure that 1 team is relocated initially, and is successful before entertaining a second team in that market.
 

Hacksaw

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IMO the league needs to ensure that 1 team is relocated initially, and is successful before entertaining a second team in that market.
That realistically only happens one way.
St. Louis was not in breach of contract. A term of the contract was triggered by the building not being in the top 25% of the league. Nothing about the contract was broken, only an option was triggered. St. louis could have kept that option from being triggered but did not.
How is not living up to the terms of your lease not breaching it? They were supposed to keep it top tier and didn't. In fact had to have an arbitrator sort it out, who agreed with the Rams.
 

Sum1

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That realistically only happens one way.

How is not living up to the terms of your lease not breaching it? They were supposed to keep it top tier and didn't. In fact had to have an arbitrator sort it out, who agreed with the Rams.

Because the terms of the lease were that if it weren't in the top 25% the Rams had the option to go year to year. The building wasn't in the top 25% thus they took the option to go year to year. If the building was in the top 25% they wouldn't have gone year to year. It was simply a qualifier for an option.

The arbitrator was brought in to decide which upgrades being proposed kept the building in the top 25%, not to decide if there was a breach of contract, because that wasn't the issue.
 

bluecoconuts

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St. Louis was not in breach of contract. A term of the contract was triggered by the building not being in the top 25% of the league. Nothing about the contract was broken, only an option was triggered. St. louis could have kept that option from being triggered but did not.

Neither side broke the contract nor failed to keep up their end of the bargain.

The lease said they were to pay for upgrades and keep the stadium in the top 25% of the league otherwise the Rams could leave. They didn't keep it in the top 25% and didn't want to pay for the needed upgrades to get them there. They failed to live up to the terms and the Rams got an out, how else would you put that?
 

The Ripper

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Because the terms of the lease were that if it weren't in the top 25% the Rams had the option to go year to year. The building wasn't in the top 25% thus they took the option to go year to year. If the building was in the top 25% they wouldn't have gone year to year. It was simply a qualifier for an option.

The arbitrator was brought in to decide which upgrades being proposed kept the building in the top 25%, not to decide if there was a breach of contract, because that wasn't the issue.

  1. Breach of contract is a legal cause of action in which a binding agreement or bargained-for exchange is not honored by one or more of the parties to the contract by non-performance or interference with the other party's performance.
The arbitrators decision wan't binding but if not adhered to that is breach of contract allowing the Rams to terminate the lease or go year to year
 

Moostache

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The lease said they were to pay for upgrades and keep the stadium in the top 25% of the league otherwise the Rams could leave. They didn't keep it in the top 25% and didn't want to pay for the needed upgrades to get them there. They failed to live up to the terms and the Rams got an out, how else would you put that?
Do you have the link to those assertions? Do you read the lease for fun and quote that as fact or simply make it up as you go? I am legitimately curious how you are such an expert on breach of contract and terms of the CVC-Rams lease specifically. Can you please post that link or simply state it is your opinion only?
 

Sum1

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The lease said they were to pay for upgrades and keep the stadium in the top 25% of the league otherwise the Rams could leave. They didn't keep it in the top 25% and didn't want to pay for the needed upgrades to get them there. They failed to live up to the terms and the Rams got an out, how else would you put that?

You're simplifying the terms with your description. It was a 30 year agreement as long as the building was in the top 25%. That 25% qualifier was to be evaluated every ten years, in which if the building wasn't in the top 25% the team had the option continue with the lease as it was or opt to a year-to-year agreement.

That isn't a breach...just the terms of the agreement. If this were viewed as a breach of contract then the Rams could take the CVC to court...only the court would look at this and say that there is no issue because the outcome of anything the CVC has (or hasn't) done is spelled out in the agreement.
 

Sum1

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  1. Breach of contract is a legal cause of action in which a binding agreement or bargained-for exchange is not honored by one or more of the parties to the contract by non-performance or interference with the other party's performance.
The arbitrators decision wan't binding but if not adhered to that is breach of contract allowing the Rams to terminate the lease or go year to year
The CVC and the Rams had an agreement. Top 25% and the Rams must fulfill a 30 year commitment. If the building is not in the top 25% they have the right to opt out. Again, not seeing where the CVC "breached" this...the building was ruled not in the top 25% thus the Rams are no longer legally bound to continue on the 30 year lease. The terms of the lease weren't breached, they just went down one path of two previously agreed upon routes.
 

ramsince62

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Exactly. Things like this make you scratch your head when it relates to Carson. Why do some people call Carson a bluff but not Inglewood?
Uh, because Inglewood is already underway, funding is not an issue and Carson is a wet dream looking for a towel.
 
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