NCAA is a JOKE

[EastRam]

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ys-took-benefits-playing-tennessee-volunteers

East..Sure there should be limits on how much money they receive but DAMMIT PAY THESE PLAYERS.

HOUSTON -- Houston Texans running back Arian Foster says he isn't scared of the NCAA, and hopes his revelations about being paid while playing in college at Tennessee will change rules about amateurism in college athletics.

"I just feel strong about the injustice that the NCAA has been doing for years," Foster said Friday. "That's why I said what I said. I'm not trying to throw anybody under the bus. ... I feel like I shouldn't have to run from the NCAA anymore. They're like these big bullies. I'm not scared of them."


In an interview for a documentary called "Schooled: The Price of College Sports," Foster said he received extra payments so he could afford rent and food while playing at Tennessee. An excerpt of the documentary was obtained by and posted on SI.com.

"I don't know if this will throw us into an NCAA investigation -- my senior year (2008), I was getting money on the side," Foster said in the video. "I really didn't have any money. I had to either pay the rent or buy some food. I remember the feeling of like, 'Man, be careful.' But there's nothing wrong with it. And you're not going to convince me that there is something wrong with it.

Foster went on to describe a situation in which he had no food or money and called a coach.

"Either you give us some food or I'm gonna go do something stupid," Foster recalled telling him.

The coach brought Foster and three others 50 tacos, Foster said in the documentary while chuckling at the thought that that the action constituted an NCAA violation.

Foster played at Tennessee from 2005-08 under Hall of Fame coach Phillip Fulmer. Foster said Friday he never took money from coaches, but there were always people around the program willing to help him financially.

Andrew Muscato, a documentary producer, says Foster didn't specify how much he received.

"We can't speak to something that allegedly happened a long time ago," Dave Hart, Tennessee vice chancellor and athletic director, said in a statement. "What we can say is that the values and priorities of our athletics department and football program are aligned, and the constant education of our student-athletes regarding the rules and the consequences of their choices is of the highest priority."

Foster said Friday he considered the repercussions of his actions and how they might impact Tennessee, which is on NCAA probation through Aug. 23, 2015. He decided the rewards were greater than the risks.

"Look at the attention it's getting," Foster said. "They really have us hoodwinked into thinking taking money is wrong as a college athlete. It's wrong for us, but it's not wrong for them. I guarantee every NCAA official has a (BMW) or Benz or something. That's not wrong, but it's wrong for me to get $20 to get something to eat? Dez Bryant couldn't get taken out to dinner by Deion Sanders, his mentor, he sat out a whole season because of that? That's not wrong? But if you can drive around in a Benz, that's OK? It's not right."


The NCAA suspended Bryant, the former Oklahoma State star, in September 2009 for the rest of that season for lying about having lunch with Sanders.

Asked if his financial situation got more difficult after he stopped living in dorms and eating from the dining hall, Foster said it was worse when he lived on campus.

"I think my check was like $87 a month in dorm rooms," Foster said. "You had meals Monday through Friday, Saturday and Sunday you had to fend for yourself. I guess that's what the $87 was for. At the end of the month you don't have any money, your family can't send you any money, a lot of those guys -- 80 percent of the team is made up of kids from the inner city."

Foster disagreed that a "free education" was a just reward, saying the education wasn't free because college athletes put in just as much work as professional athletes.

"Except I can go make money off of my name," Foster said. "I can go get a side job if I really wanted to. The NCAA takes away your constitutional rights as an American of not being able to go get a job."

He called for an end to what he considers the guise of amateurism in college sports.

Said Foster: "It's just amazing to me that adults let this go on."

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

 

[iced]

i think it's incredibly fucked up...

but to me the NCAA is just another version of the gov't - make a bunch of stupid shit illegal while they can garnish all the profits while limiting the freedoms of others

 

[V3]

Sorry, they already get paid. In case you didn't know, a college degree is ridiculously expensive. The extra money the sports teams make is supposed to go to other things like funding other sports and decreasing the cost of tuition for other students.

Also, they were talking about this on the radio and Demarco said that there is no reason that Foster wouldn't have food. It's provided for athletes. So is housing.

I don't feel bad for the players at all. They get tons of benefits that others don't. the people that are getting ripped off are the other students that don't get the reduced tuition, free food, and free housing. That money is supposed to go to the whole school- not just the football team.

 

[brokeu91]

Sorry, they already get paid. In case you didn't know, a college degree is ridiculously expensive. The extra money the sports teams make is supposed to go to other things like funding other sports and decreasing the cost of tuition for other students.

Also, they were talking about this on the radio and Demarco said that there is no reason that Foster wouldn't have food. It's provided for athletes. So is housing.

I don't feel bad for the players at all. They get tons of benefits that others don't. the people that are getting ripped off are the other students that don't get the reduced tuition, free food, and free housing. That money is supposed to go to the whole school- not just the football team.

I agree with this. I'm sorry but I was in college/professional school A LONG TIME and accumulated a very substantial debt. I guess the football players don't realize that $40,000 per year for tuition/board/books is not being paid, but for those of us who were not as athletically gifted we do.

It is BS if they don't get their weekend food covered though

 

[LesBaker]

Sorry, they already get paid. In case you didn't know, a college degree is ridiculously expensive. The extra money the sports teams make is supposed to go to other things like funding other sports and decreasing the cost of tuition for other students.

Also, they were talking about this on the radio and Demarco said that there is no reason that Foster wouldn't have food. It's provided for athletes. So is housing.

I don't feel bad for the players at all. They get tons of benefits that others don't. the people that are getting ripped off are the other students that don't get the reduced tuition, free food, and free housing. That money is supposed to go to the whole school- not just the football team.

Yeah and at some time the snotty spoiled athletes should spend more time in class.......because they end up broke too soon.

 

[iced]

Sorry, they already get paid. In case you didn't know, a college degree is ridiculously expensive. The extra money the sports teams make is supposed to go to other things like funding other sports and decreasing the cost of tuition for other students.

Also, they were talking about this on the radio and Demarco said that there is no reason that Foster wouldn't have food. It's provided for athletes. So is housing.

I don't feel bad for the players at all. They get tons of benefits that others don't. the people that are getting ripped off are the other students that don't get the reduced tuition, free food, and free housing. That money is supposed to go to the whole school- not just the football team.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this at all.

A College degree is ridiculously expensive - yet the schools make RIDICULOUS amounts of money from their athletic programs. Think about tv endorsements, ticket sales, vendors, etc.

Colleges pocket the money and are basically getting a "free labor." And it's not like these guys can just go get another job in addition to school and football - they already have a full load, not to mention the physical and mental demand.

There isn't any "Reduced" tuition - a schools tuition per hour is the same... And I call bull on this whole concept too - non-athletic students can get full scholarships too. Almost every state has a scholarship program, and they're usually grade dependent. In Florida, if you have a 3.0 or higher, you are eligible for bright futures scholarship. The higher the grades,the more they pay.

Or you could do what I did and join the military for college tuition - or take out student loans and get side jobs like my sisters did....

actually, those non-athletic students don't have a practice to go to, game film to watch, etc. so there's no reason as to WHY they can't get a job on top.

and yea, I say this as a junior/almost senior at USF

I'm with South Park on the stance that the Colleges and NCAA are taking advantage of student athletes

 

[V3]

Sorry, they already get paid. In case you didn't know, a college degree is ridiculously expensive. The extra money the sports teams make is supposed to go to other things like funding other sports and decreasing the cost of tuition for other students.

Also, they were talking about this on the radio and Demarco said that there is no reason that Foster wouldn't have food. It's provided for athletes. So is housing.

I don't feel bad for the players at all. They get tons of benefits that others don't. the people that are getting ripped off are the other students that don't get the reduced tuition, free food, and free housing. That money is supposed to go to the whole school- not just the football team.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this at all.

A College degree is ridiculously expensive - yet the schools make RIDICULOUS amounts of money from their athletic programs. Think about tv endorsements, ticket sales, vendors, etc.

Colleges pocket the money and are basically getting a "free labor." And it's not like these guys can just go get another job in addition to school and football - they already have a full load, not to mention the physical and mental demand.

There isn't any "Reduced" tuition - a schools tuition per hour is the same... And I call bull on this whole concept too - non-athletic students can get full scholarships too. Almost every state has a scholarship program, and they're usually grade dependent. In Florida, if you have a 3.0 or higher, you are eligible for bright futures scholarship. The higher the grades,the more they pay.

Or you could do what I did and join the military for college tuition - or take out student loans and get side jobs like my sisters did....

actually, those non-athletic students don't have a practice to go to, game film to watch, etc. so there's no reason as to WHY they can't get a job on top.

and yea, I say this as a junior/almost senior at USF

I'm with South Park on the stance that the Colleges and NCAA are taking advantage of student athletes

They are not getting free labor. They are paying the athletes in tuition, food, and housing. That's $20,000 a year and up. Why don't you get that? Any extra money the college is getting from that sport is supposed to go the rest of the university. If you want to have an issue, it should be with schools just reinvesting that money into that program. The whole university sports system is a sham and, quite honestly, should be shut down unless they are going to fairly disperse the money with ALL the departments.

And I don't think you understand what I'm talking about with reduced tuitions. The cost of tuition is a set price. They can change it if they want. If the university is making a bunch of money from a separate endeavor, they should be using that money to reduce its costs and pass those savings onto the student, thus reducing how much it costs students to attend. Tuition prices rise dramatically every year. The amount of money football and basketball bring in should be lowering tuition prices.

 

[Angry Ram]

NCAA IS stupid. But players shouldn't get paid.

1. As mentioned, a college scholarship and the opportunity of basically a free (financially speaking) degree should be compensation enough. While other students like med, law, journalism, w/e...bust their asses doing real work and players get to have fun playing a game.

2. Can't limit paying just football players. From basketball to women's swimming, should they all get paid? The answer is none of them.

3. The day college sports starts to pay players, I will never watch another down of college sports. The NFL is the business, not college sports where it's about school pride and loyalty.

 

[Rabid Ram]

Sorry, they already get paid. In case you didn't know, a college degree is ridiculously expensive. The extra money the sports teams make is supposed to go to other things like funding other sports and decreasing the cost of tuition for other students.

Also, they were talking about this on the radio and Demarco said that there is no reason that Foster wouldn't have food. It's provided for athletes. So is housing.

I don't feel bad for the players at all. They get tons of benefits that others don't. the people that are getting ripped off are the other students that don't get the reduced tuition, free food, and free housing. That money is supposed to go to the whole school- not just the football team.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this at all.

A College degree is ridiculously expensive - yet the schools make RIDICULOUS amounts of money from their athletic programs. Think about tv endorsements, ticket sales, vendors, etc.

Colleges pocket the money and are basically getting a "free labor." And it's not like these guys can just go get another job in addition to school and football - they already have a full load, not to mention the physical and mental demand.

There isn't any "Reduced" tuition - a schools tuition per hour is the same... And I call bull on this whole concept too - non-athletic students can get full scholarships too. Almost every state has a scholarship program, and they're usually grade dependent. In Florida, if you have a 3.0 or higher, you are eligible for bright futures scholarship. The higher the grades,the more they pay.

Or you could do what I did and join the military for college tuition - or take out student loans and get side jobs like my sisters did....

actually, those non-athletic students don't have a practice to go to, game film to watch, etc. so there's no reason as to WHY they can't get a job on top.

and yea, I say this as a junior/almost senior at USF

I'm with South Park on the stance that the Colleges and NCAA are taking advantage of student athletes

Sorry can't get behind any argument that uses south park as its base

 

[EastRam]

Ok..Interesting views..

Let me ask this.

Should college players be entitled to sell "their" name and not be punished?

 

[Thordaddy]

Ok..Interesting views..

Let me ask this.

Should college players be entitled to sell "their" name and not be punished?

Well East that's sorta a slippery slope thang, cuz a guy could say Hey I'll pay you $1 million to sign autographs if Texas beats ya'll .

When money changes hands you don't know exactly WHAT it's for.

See I can see merit in both arguments and I don't think anyone here absolves the NCAA for their raging hypocrisy,just not sure a schoarship shouldn't include a stipend , but once they pay them they'll have to have a salary cap or there won't be any more major college programs than there are NFL teams. As a father with two sons in college now ( one who wouldn't TALK to recruiters who were interested in giving him a wrestling scholarship) I can tell ya a free education is a thing of REAL value and like Les says they need to be REAL students.

 

[EastRam]

Tdaddy

I can tell ya a free education is a thing of REAL value and like Les says they need to be REAL students.

Agreed. But I'm certain it's very difficult to be a "real" student when faced with the reality of the time constraints placed on college athlete's.

Based on this study/poll.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/2008-01-12-athletes-full-time-work-study_N.htm


— Football players in the NCAA's Division I Bowl Subdivision (formerly known as Division I-A) said they spent an average of 44.8 hours a week on their sport — playing games, practicing, training and in the training room — compared with a little less than 40 hours on academics.

— Division I baseball players said they spent 40 hours on their sport, 32 on academics. In men's basketball, it was 36.8 hours on their sport vs. 33.9 hours on academics.

— Women's basketball was little less time-intensive, players saying they spent a little more than 36 hours on their game vs. a little more than 37 on classwork.

— Other sports exceeding or approaching a 37 1/2-hour work week were men's golf (40.8) and hockey (37.6) and women's softball (37.1).

The survey, Brand says, doesn't address the degree to which coaches' implied demands drive up after-practice hours. Nearly one in four baseball and men's basketball players and one in five football players said they'd put in more time if they could, the findings show.

"Frankly, I'd rather have that student go to sleep early, wake up in the morning and do an extra run than I would (him or her) staying up late and going to the bars," Brand said.

"The fact that they choose to balance athletics and academics as a primary activity, I think that's fine."

 

[iced]

They are not getting free labor. They are paying the athletes in tuition, food, and housing. That's $20,000 a year and up. Why don't you get that? Any extra money the college is getting from that sport is supposed to go the rest of the university. If you want to have an issue, it should be with schools just reinvesting that money into that program. The whole university sports system is a sham and, quite honestly, should be shut down unless they are going to fairly disperse the money with ALL the departments.

And I don't think you understand what I'm talking about with reduced tuitions. The cost of tuition is a set price. They can change it if they want. If the university is making a bunch of money from a separate endeavor, they should be using that money to reduce its costs and pass those savings onto the student, thus reducing how much it costs students to attend. Tuition prices rise dramatically every year. The amount of money football and basketball bring in should be lowering tuition prices.

You act like football players all the only ones who get tuition,food,and housing - which isn't true. Any student who earns a scholarship gets the same thing. The only difference is, the regular student isn't spending 40+ hours a week on an activity that brings a lot of revenue into that school. NCAA teams aren't all that different from nfl teams in that regard that they make tons of money of tv endorsements and contracts. They could afford to pay these students,even if it were something small and probably would only cost a couple of percent.

But you're not going to convince me that it's fair that these kids "receive a college education" as payment while tying their hands financially and also not allowing anyone else to financially help them.

Colleges are just like any other business - they're not using that money to lower tuition (like you point out, it keeps rising)...that money is going into their pockets.

"A free education" is such bs - an academic student gets the same thing, but he's not putting in extra time and effort to the school that results in the school making money (while additionally making their bodies susceptible to injury). the athletes work harder, more, don't have time for a job while bringing in more money for the school (especially the more successful) - they should be compensated for it.doesn't have to be an hourly wage or anything, but they need to be better taken care of then they are now...and they should start with making it allowable for students to receive money from elsewhere if they choose to do so

Sorry can't get behind any argument that uses south park as its base

so it's about the title of the book,not the actual substance..

 

[Thordaddy]

Well iced I think you are wrong about scholarships, my son does have an academic scholarship with what is known as "bright flight" which gives him $1500 per semester spending money,but he has to maintain a way higher GPA to keep them,some of these jocks take the min. of credit hours and have tutors paid by the ath. dept and still get grades given to them cuz they never show for class and Foster FWIW is one of the likely candidates ( the better they are the less they often even go to classes,Clairol's program was full of that stuff)
True the athletes make money for the school ,but academic scholarships FWIW actually play into the reason the school exists WAY better,unless you think they started Boston College so there would BE a football team. It's just too easy to lose sight of the fact that they do get a very valuable education for playing and that a kid that age isn't going to get paid that well for flippin burgers at Mickeys ,they'll end up with student loans galore if they have to earn the cost of their education on a minimum wage job.
When it gets down to the real math of it players at the top schools get paid pretty well considering their other economic horizons at that moment.
All that though doesn't take the big concern for me into account ,injury, I coached a kid through grade school who was wrestling at West Point up until this year on scholarship, got his 6th or so concussion boom done wrestling out of the academy back at SeMo State. In the great concussion bruhah with the NFL paying out hundreds of millions in settlements, who's gonna pay the NCAA cast offs walking around dazed and confused ?

 

[iced]

Well iced I think you are wrong about scholarships, my son does have an academic scholarship with what is known as "bright flight" which gives him $1500 per semester spending money,but he has to maintain a way higher GPA to keep them,some of these jocks take the min. of credit hours and have tutors paid by the ath. dept and still get grades given to them cuz they never show for class and Foster FWIW is one of the likely candidates ( the better they are the less they often even go to classes,Clairol's program was full of that stuff)

every state is different, just like every college is different..i know in florida if you qualify for bright futures, if the grades are right they will cover everything...also there are grants out there too like the PAL grant ($5500 for 1 year).

You know why those students get breaks on grades? Because that student is doing something for the school a non-athletic student is not - bringing in revenue.. like I said, colleges are all about money, they're not going to have their best player miss time or a game, especially when you start talking about bowl games

True the athletes make money for the school ,but academic scholarships FWIW actually play into the reason the school exists WAY better,unless you think they started Boston College so there would BE a football team. It's just too easy to lose sight of the fact that they do get a very valuable education for playing and that a kid that age isn't going to get paid that well for flippin burgers at Mickeys ,they'll end up with student loans galore if they have to earn the cost of their education on a minimum wage job.
When it gets down to the real math of it players at the top schools get paid pretty well considering their other economic horizons at that moment.

obviously college students are not well enough taken care of with the current system in place...this is why some kids take money from others,and get in trouble for it - which is bull shit. It's basic human instinct - if you're struggling to eat and someone's not going to feed you, you're gonna find a way to do it.

All that though doesn't take the big concern for me into account ,injury, I coached a kid through grade school who was wrestling at West Point up until this year on scholarship, got his 6th or so concussion boom done wrestling out of the academy back at SeMo State. In the great concussion bruhah with the NFL paying out hundreds of millions in settlements, who's gonna pay the NCAA cast offs walking around dazed and confused ?

good question - i would hope the athletic department would cover him for anything brain injury related. I have a mild TBI from the military - although i've seen very little in any sort of help other than the VA... lol not even getting disability and i've been out for 2 years

 

[Thordaddy]

Well iced thanks for your service ,exploitative as it might have been,
your sacrifice is dully noted and appreciated.

Thanks also for the discussion,we aren't going to end up on the same page on all of this but since neither of us is infallible I'd say that might be a good thing.

Like I said from the start, both sides have a case and I'd say how you come into this makes all the difference in how you come out.

 

[iced]

Well iced thanks for your service ,exploitative as it might have been,
your sacrifice is dully noted and appreciated.

Thanks also for the discussion,we aren't going to end up on the same page on all of this but since neither of us is infallible I'd say that might be a good thing.

Like I said from the start, both sides have a case and I'd say how you come into this makes all the difference in how you come out.

Yea, agree to disagree then.

But make no mistake, colleges are not different from any other business... its all about the $$$

 

[fearsomefour]

A couple of things....

The VAST majority of college football players get no or very little scholorship money. If a team has 60 something guys dressed for a game and 80 players in their program they might have 10 guys on a full ride. Most teams will do partial scholorships for some until their scholorship limit is hit and everyone else get nothing. A lot of small schools wont have the free food option for players (football or otherwise) and may not have any housing available for players. It is a multi layer cast system basically. The thing that is college sports is waste deep in a mud bog of hypocricy....so it is with anything that calls itself one thing and is something else in reality.
Football at almost all schools is the big money maker....basketball at some schools and there are some other exceptions. A college that sells 50,000 tickets to a football game at an average of $30 plus consessions (nothing like selling beer at $8 a cup), plus parking, plus stadium advertising, plus local radio broadcast money, plus tv money....they are pulling in millions of dollars on an average Saturday afternoon. The college in the town I live in (a mid level D1 for football) was having issues with behavior during football games due mostly to beer consumption. In talking about how to address the issue the one thing that was never seriously considered was stopping the sales of beer. The solution? Raise prices and stop sales a couple of minutes into the 4th quarter. To call it anything but a business is just sillyness.
Most sports lose money. My son plays baseball and is just starting his freshman year of college. He had a scholorship offer from a school in a cold weather state that was worth about $10,000 a year when you factor in food. He turned it down to play on the coast. If he took money for classes/housing/food ect this is (obviously) the same as getting paid. In a cold weather state you could go to a college baseball game and see a crowd of 100-200 people....most places baseball is a money loser. So it goes.
So, football does help support other programs at most schools. So, using a major football program for example, you have a program with a coach that has a salary of 7 figures with 10 assistants, a staff of trainers, a maintence crew for the stadium that holds 70,000 people, a local tv contract, radio contract, a store in the stadium and on campus and in the community that sells everything from coffee mugs to slippers with "big red U football" on them and we still consider it not for profit?
If the NCAA allowed players to be paid directly for their sports, as someone else said, you would end up paying every athelete. How would pay structure be set up? A starting QB at a big school should certainly make more than the last swimmer on the bench. Or would each player just get a percentage of net (time to doctor those books) regardless of position. Since most sports lose money most would get paid nothing....like they do now.
So, there are many shades of grey to this.
Should schools pay students athletes, in my opinion no. It would really create even more imbalance in college sports and probably lead to programs (like wrestling and ladies golf) getting cut.
Should someone who has attained fame through their sport for their university be able to market themselves and make some money? Yes in my opinion.
The reason Alabama doesnt want McCarren selling jerseys at a BBQ isent because they care about his image or how that relates to the university it because they are not getting a cut of the money. You could put conditions on this of course....a school would not want a player selling anything with a university logo a Janoris Jenkins bong for example. Ok, I get that. But signing pictures, getting to run your own football camp for kids, or selling some merch that related to the player and not the school (a rubber football that just says Johnny Football with his face on it for example)....I see no issue with this. It would not relate to or effect most players and for the few guys in a position to profit from it without affecting their school or most importantly their schools profits I dont see where there is an issue.
Like most regulating agencies the NCAA is corrupt to a certain degree and they have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are....and fairness is usually the last thing considered.