My Little Study

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

rams24/7

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
1,870
Name
Nick
It has been painful watching NFC West foes SF & SEA making their playoff runs this year (and last year). Watching all this playoff football (especially SF & SEA) has left me wondering what the Rams are missing and how far off they are from the playoffs. Is the coaching and scouting good enough? Are we just unlucky? Is it due to us playing in the toughest division in football?

These are all legitimate questions and concerns that numerous fans (myself included) have been asking since 2005. I think most of the problems that have plagued this team over the last decade are beginning to be fixed by this new regime. We have a younger team. Player development and scouting seems to be as good as its been since the Rams moved to STL. The Rams SHOWED in 2012 that they CAN hang with the west going 4-1-1. And this year they showed they could blow out playoff caliber teams home and away. They've also played much better home football these past 2 years going a combined 9-6 (I don't count a 20% Rams crowd at Wembley a "Home" game). This is compared to a Rams team that was 8-32 at home from 2007-2011.

Anyways let me cut to the chase, the whole reason for this post.

I was beginning to ask myself watching Seattle and San Fran these past two weeks as they move through the playoffs: what have they done/not done or what are they doing/not doing....that our Rammies haven't done or aren't doing?

I came away with a few easy ones like limiting the drive killing penalties on O or the drive extending plays on D. Both teams also dictated the LOS on both sides (something we need help with on the OL). Also TURNOVERS, both of these teams limit their offensive turnovers and seem to get defensive stops/turnovers at the most pivotal times in games.

But the most important issue for ANY team in the NFL is drafting QUALITY (scouting) players and DEVELOPING (coaching) them to the point where they MAXIMIZE their potential. This is no easy task and that's why we see about 1/4 of the head coaches fired in the league every year.

Here are the conclusions I've come to about the Harbaugh/Baalke led Niners, the Caroll/Schneider led Seahawks, and our very own Fish/Snead led Rams.

1. All 3 franchises are good at scouting AND developing talent.

2. Most regimes have a 3-5 year blueprint to win the Super Bowl. All 3 teams have executed those plans well. Here's the difference between the 49ers, Seahawks, and Rams:

a)Harbaugh inherited a roster littered with talent (most of it near fully developed). He only had to add a few pieces to complete the team, but the foundation was strong (Gore, Staley, Crabtree, Davis, Willis, Bowman, etc.). Harbaugh inherited a team in 2011 that, in my opinion, was already on year 3 or so of what I consider the "Super Bowl Blueprint." They were past the stage of rebuilding; they were like a football powerhouse like Alabama that doesn't rebuild, it just reloads. This is no knock on Harbaugh's ability to coach or scout. He can't help that he inherited a great roster, but I'm just trying to bring to people's attention what allowed him to have IMMEDIATE success in his first 3 years as head coach.

b)Caroll came into a complete REBUILD situation; these are the ones that truly take 3-5 years. He had some key cogs like Unger, Bryant, and Mebane to build around, but they were significantly less than what Harbaugh inherited. Caroll's Hawks went 14-18 his first two seasons as he continued to build the foundation with guys like Okung, Thomas, Chancellor, and Sherman through the draft. Year 3 he finally found his QB (Wilson) and he had the team around him that didn't force him to carry the team on his back. NOW this year (year 4) Seattle is making the playoff push right around the time expected.

The best teams like SF & SEA CONSISTENTLY draft well because you can't resign ALL of your young stars. The low salaries of rookies are also more cap friends and allow for quantity as well as quality.

c) Which bring me to the Rams... Fish & Co. are now entering year 3, of a true REBUILD. Like Caroll his young team has been competitive while hanging around the .500 mark his first to years as he continues to acquire talent and solidify the FOUNDATION. I'd say Quinn, Laurinaitis, Bradford, Long are a solid start, with plenty other potential stars and contributors making their names. In fact Fish's Rams were 1.5 games better than Caroll's first 2 years in Seattle at 14-17-1.

So if you really put things in perspective the Niners are on year 5 of a 5-year SB blueprint, the Hawks are on year 4, and the Rams just concluded year 2. I'm not trying to be an apologist for the opportunities the Rams did have to make the dance the past 2 years, just trying to come with alternative viewpoint with a more positive outlook for our team. Concerns on the o-line and defensive backfield are legitimate, along with other needs. I just want to highlight some bright spots in the past 2 years in regards to our Rammies.


For a more statistical breakdown on the above mentioned, here's what I found (I counted slot WRs, nickelbacks, and KR/PR as starting positions):

SF (since Harbaugh began in 2011 [On THIS years roster]):
-14 STARTERS were drafted by PREVIOUS regimes (RB Gore, WR Crabtree, TE Vernon Davis, LT Staley, LG Iupati, RG Boone, RT Antohony Davis, DE McDonald, OLB Brooks, ILB Willis, ILB Bowman, CB Brown, CB Brock, P Lee)
-6 STARTERS were drafted by HARBAUGH (QB Kaepernick, FB Miller, OLB Aldon Smith, FS Reid, LS McDermott, KR/PR James)
-7 STARTERS were FAs (WR Boldin, C Goodwin, DE Justin Smith, NT Dorsey, CB Rogers, SS Whitner, K Dawson)

SEA (since Caroll began in 2010 [On THIS years roster]):
-3 STARTERS were drafted by PREVIOUS regimes (C Unger, DE Bryant, DT Mebane)
-14 STARTERS were drafted by CAROLL (QB Wilson, FB Coleman, WR Taint, LT Okung, RG Sweezy, OLB Wright, OLB Irvin, MLB Wagner, CB Sherman, CB Maxwell, NB Thurmond, FS Thomas, SS Chancellor, PR Taint)
-9 STARTERS were FAs (RB Lynch, WR Rice, WR Harvin, TE Miller, LG McQuistain, RT Giacomini, K Haushka, P Ryan, LS Gresham, KR Harvin)

STL (since Fisher began in 2012 [On THIS years roster]):
-6 STARTERS were drafted by PREVIOUS regimes (QB Bradford, RG Saffold, DE Quinn, DE Long, MLB Laurinaitis, LS McQuaide)
-14 STARTERS were drafted by FISHER (RB Stacy, FB Harkey, WR Givens, WR Bailey, WR Austin, DT Brockers, OLB Ogletree, CB Jenkins, CB Johnson, FS McLeod, SS McDonald, K Zuerlein, P Hekker, KR/PR Cunningham/Austin)
-8 STARTERS were FAs (TE Cook, LT Long, LG Williams, C Wells, RT Barksdale, DT Langford, OLB Dunbar, NB Finnegan)


*Note I count undrafted rookies as draft picks*
 
Last edited by a moderator:

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
Excellent work, Nick. It's funny that you brought this up now, because I started thinking about doing a similar study after spending some time re-watching all of the videos I saved from last year. I was originally going to count up all of the negated touchdowns, and penalty yards that put the Rams in third and unmanageable situations (as well as giving away first downs on defense), but then I started to ask myself WHY these things were happening. That made me think about the youthful mistakes and relative inexperience, which then led me down a path of finding out how young we were - relative to the other teams in the division.

Now I don't have to. lol.

Thanks, man. That's good stuff.
 

Alan

Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
9,766
Great job 24/7. :bigup:

When does the big study come out? In paperback I mean cause my strength isn't all back yet. :D
 

max

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,010
Name
max
Great job.

I was wondering why you didn't include the Rams FA's when you did include the Niners and Hawks FAs.

It seems that FA is the biggest shortcoming in Fisher's term as HC in STL. He's added Cook, Finnegan, Wells, Hayes, Langford, Dunbar, and CWilliams. He didn't get his money's worth on most of these guys.
 

rams24/7

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
1,870
Name
Nick
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Great job.

I was wondering why you didn't include the Rams FA's when you did include the Niners and Hawks FAs.

It seems that FA is the biggest shortcoming in Fisher's term as HC in STL. He's added Cook, Finnegan, Wells, Hayes, Langford, Dunbar, and CWilliams. He didn't get his money's worth on most of these guys.

Woops! Just edited the post and entered the list of FA starters. I'd like to see us add to the OL through the draft. If you look at the lines of SEA & SF most of their OLmen were added through the draft.
 

max

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
3,010
Name
max
Woops! Just edited the post and entered the list of FA starters. I'd like to see us add to the OL through the draft. If you look at the lines of SEA & SF most of their OLmen were added through the draft.

I agree with you on adding OL through the draft. That is the biggest concern I have.
 

rams24/7

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
1,870
Name
Nick
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
I agree with you on adding OL through the draft. That is the biggest concern I have.

I'd be all for Greg Robinson or Jake Matthews in the 1st if we trade down & a OG like Richardson in the 2nd or Jackson in the 3rd
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
I'd be all for Greg Robinson or Jake Matthews in the 1st if we trade down & a OG like Richardson in the 2nd or Jackson in the 3rd
I think (and this is just a feeling) that we're all going to be somewhat disappointed in this draft if our eyes are set on O-line help. Again, just a feeling, but I think they're going to continue to take on freak athletes with the mindset that they can simply churn players on the line and get what they need without using high draft picks to do it.
 

A55VA6

Legend
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
8,208
Nice job man.

As for the OL in the draft, I'm pretty sure Rams won't draft one 1st round. Fisher doesn't really like spending high picks on OL and I agree with it. I hate spending a high pick on a OL that isn't going to be worth the 1st round pick anyway. I don't see the "nasty" in Jake Matthews that most good OL have. I'm cool with using a mid / later pick on a guy though.
 

MerlinJones

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
1,020
The Niners and Seahawks as organizations have invested multiple high draft picks, including multiple first rounders, in building their offensive lines.
They will be playing each other for a trip to the Super Bowl.

The Rams current regime has shown no willingness (through words and actions) to invest high draft picks on the offensive line, preferring late round picks and FA.
They are at home.

There is every chance that the Rams may eclipse both organizations, and I hope that they do, but if this OL policy continues I don't feel that our chances are very good.
 

rams24/7

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
1,870
Name
Nick
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
The Niners and Seahawks as organizations have invested multiple high draft picks, including multiple first rounders, in building their offensive lines.
They will be playing each other for a trip to the Super Bowl.

The Rams current regime has shown no willingness (through words and actions) to invest high draft picks on the offensive line, preferring late round picks and FA.
They are at home.

There is every chance that the Rams may eclipse both organizations, and I hope that they do, but if this OL policy continues I don't feel that our chances are very good.

That was one of the points that I was trying to make with the info I provided. If you look at the Rams OL this year EVERY starter this year was a FA with the exception of Roger Saffold. As opposed to the 49er OL that with the exception of C Goodwin was all drafted in house. Even Seattle has an OL with LT Okung, C Unger, & RG Sweezy drafted.

The cap saved by these lower costing OLmen has relieved cap for these teams to resign premium defenders (Bowman, Thomas, Chancellor, Brooks). But good teams have to CONTINUE to draft well or too much of their cap is tied up in FAs. For one thing I can tell you SF done better in FA than the Rams adding players like Justin Smith, Anquan Boldin (trade), Goodwin, Rogers, Dawson, etc. You rarely see the Hawks or Niners give a player a HEFTY contract in FA because their biggest resignings are IN HOUSE. Every team will add FA busts from time to time (SEA Rice), but the point is to minimize those mistakes. STL needs more results from Long, Wells, & Cook. Imo I'd like to see our team get to the point where we're not spending more than $5M on any player per year in FA.
 

iamme33

Pro Bowler
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
1,196
Name
dan
Nice job man.

As for the OL in the draft, I'm pretty sure Rams won't draft one 1st round. Fisher doesn't really like spending high picks on OL and I agree with it. I hate spending a high pick on a OL that isn't going to be worth the 1st round pick anyway. I don't see the "nasty" in Jake Matthews that most good OL have. I'm cool with using a mid / later pick on a guy though.


the thing with drafting ol high is even if u hit a great one the guy next to him may not be so you still have a week spot. if you fill all the weak spots you have to much tied up in salary cap. if you draft a dl and hit a great one he can disrupt an of even if the guy next to him is weak
 

JIMERAMS

Pro Bowler
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
1,017
Name
Bill
Excellent work, Nick. It's funny that you brought this up now, because I started thinking about doing a similar study after spending some time re-watching all of the videos I saved from last year. I was originally going to count up all of the negated touchdowns, and penalty yards that put the Rams in third and unmanageable situations (as well as giving away first downs on defense), but then I started to ask myself WHY these things were happening. That made me think about the youthful mistakes and relative inexperience, which then led me down a path of finding out how young we were - relative to the other teams in the division.

Now I don't have to. lol.

Thanks, man. That's good stuff.


can you also count up the 3rd down dropped passes when you do this study and post it:heh:
 

Ram_of_Old

Guest
Good stuff! I think we would have been vying for a wild card this year if Sam had not gone down. But even with Kellen we won some games that we should not have. If Sam comes back strong, we shore up the O line and DB, and we finally get a top notch wide out....we will be able to play with anyone next year. GOOD GRIEF!! I am stoked already!:woot:
 

Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
10,462
Name
Rich
I think (and this is just a feeling) that we're all going to be somewhat disappointed in this draft if our eyes are set on O-line help. Again, just a feeling, but I think they're going to continue to take on freak athletes with the mindset that they can simply churn players on the line and get what they need without using high draft picks to do it.
And I think we are once again going to see the sentimental side of Fisher and we're gonna get Matthews then go with the plan you envision
 

Ramhusker

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
13,835
Name
Bo Bowen
Thought provoking. Thanks for that. Enlightenment is an adrenaline rush!