Long versus Clowney Pre-draft measurables

[Blue and Gold]

Clowney
6 ft 5 ¼
266 lb
4.53 40 yard dash
1.56 10 yard split
7.27 3-cone
37 ½ in vertical
10 ft 4 in broad jump
21 reps on bench

Long
6 ft 3
272
4.75 forty
1.53 10 yard split
7.02 3-cone
34 vertical
10 ft 4 in broad jump
didn't do bench, injured thumb

 

[Rams and Gators]

Interesting, it means nothing, but still interesting.

 

[Thordaddy]

I wouldn't say nothing,it means maybe when he gets up against the elite pass blockers of the NFL ,wanna is as important as can.

 

[Faceplant]

Yep. Long was every bit the athlete that Clowney is when he came out. You see the work ethic from him. Clowney will not just come in to the NFL and dominate without putting in that work....

 

[Blue and Gold]

Agree, it doesn't mean "nothing". It means something, but it's not everything, either. The point is, Clowney is faster, Long is a bit quicker, and was heavier. But we're also talking about fractions of seconds. The main point, IMO, is that Clowney is a "once in a generation" player. Well . . . maybe. We wont' know that for a few years, but there have been better athletes than him. Kearse was faster, about same size. There have been plenty stronger.

Could he be as good as Mario Williams or Julius Peppers? Yeah, but also maybe not.

All I can say, is after seeing these numbers for many years, Clowney posted good numbers, but not so good that he can be called a once in a generation player. That, coupled with his senior performance . . . tells a story.

 

[Thordaddy]

How long are their arms?
IMO that is very important cuz the athleticism combined with long arms may be why Clowney is expected to be so good.

 

[Alan]

That's either a great 10 yard split (the far more important speed stat IMO) by Long or a really bad split for Clowney. Not a good 3-cone result for Clowney either. I'll be very surprised if these results improve his draft prospects. the 4.53 40 doesn't impress me at all.

Of course I don't put very much stock in any of the combine results so there's that.

 

[Faceplant]

How long are their arms?
IMO that is very important cuz the athleticism combined with long arms may be why Clowney is expected to be so good.

Clowney - 34.5"
Long 32.5"

 

[Blue and Gold]

How long are their arms?
IMO that is very important cuz the athleticism combined with long arms may be why Clowney is expected to be so good.

Long 32-1/2
Clowney 34-1/2

Jim Haslett didn't want Long, he wanted Dorsey. He said Long's arms were too short. Well, maybe, but Long has been a very good pass rusher since 2010. Probably leads the NFL in hurries since 2010. He's not what I'd call dominant, like Deacon or Youngblood. But he's a far better player than Dorsey.

 

[Thordaddy]

Those are short arms, I'm only 6ft and mine are 34"

 

[RamsJunkie]

Here are Quinns while were at it.

40 Yard Dash: 4.62 seconds
20 Yard Dash: 2.67 seconds
10 Yard Dash: 1.61 seconds
Bench Press: 22 reps (225 lb)
Wonderlic: (N/A) (0-50)
Vertical Leap: 34.0 inches
Broad Jump: 116 inches
20 Yd Shuttle: 4.40 seconds
Three Cone: 7.13 seconds
60 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds

Height: 76 inches
Weight: 265 pounds
Arm Length: 34.00 inches
Hand Size: 10.13 inches

 

[jrry32]

Yep. Long was every bit the athlete that Clowney is when he came out. You see the work ethic from him. Clowney will not just come in to the NFL and dominate without putting in that work....

He wasn't and he isn't. Not even close really. Long was an underrated athlete but he wasn't on the same tier as Clowney and Quinn...despite what any numbers say.

 

[jrry32]

That's either a great 10 yard split (the far more important speed stat IMO) by Long or a really bad split for Clowney. Not a good 3-cone result for Clowney either. I'll be very surprised if these results improve his draft prospects. the 4.53 40 doesn't impress me at all.

Of course I don't put very much stock in any of the combine results so there's that.

Not that a 40 time means much of anything for a DE but I'm a little bit confused as to how a 266 pound man running a faster 40 than some of our WRs including Brian Quick wouldn't impress you, Alan.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 not impressed with me not being impressed:
Not that a 40 time means much of anything for a DE but I'm a little bit confused as to how a 266 pound man running a faster 40 than some of our WRs including Brian Quick wouldn't impress you, Alan.

Should a sub 4 minute time in the mile impress me when the guy is only going to run a 100 yard dash? The "important" (I'm using quotation marks because I don't really think it's important) stat is the 10 yard split which says something about his quickness off the snap. Small area agility and quickness measured by the 3-cone time could also be reasonably argued to be important for a lineman. Another area where he didn't impress me at all. To me, the 40 yard time doesn't even show much athletic ability. It does point out his long legs and lean frame which are great attributes for long distance runners. I could say even more about this (and I will if asked) but I think you get where I'm coming from. I would be reasonably impressed if he was a TE.

Jared Cook: 6'5", 254 lbs, 40 yard dash time = 4.49. Pretty much the same size as Clowney but his 40 time impresses me. Different job description.

 

[Faceplant]

He wasn't and he isn't. Not even close really. Long was an underrated athlete but he wasn't on the same tier as Clowney and Quinn...despite what any numbers say.

I usually agree with you, but not this time. You can say you think Clowney is more athletic, but to say it is not close is a bit much. Chris had the better career in college (compare his 2007 to JC's 2012 for instance). He also has very similar if not better combine measurables. I am not talking about height/weight...I am talking about short shuttle, 40yd, 10yd, etc. How can you say that they are not "close"? Those are athletic measurements that are not only close, but in some cases favor CL. Time will tell if JC is all that some have him cracked up to be, but based on performance to date, he is absolutely comparable to CL, as well as many other "next big things" to come out at that position in the last ten years.

Chris Long:

Clowney:

 

[jrry32]

I usually agree with you, but not this time. You can say you think Clowney is more athletic, but to say it is not close is a bit much. Chris had the better career in college (compare his 2007 to JC's 2012 for instance). He also has very similar if not better combine measurables. I am not talking about height/weight...I am talking about short shuttle, 40yd, 10yd, etc. How can you say that they are not "close"? Those are athletic measurements that are not only close, but in some cases favor CL. Time will tell if JC is all that some have him cracked up to be, but based on performance to date, he is absolutely comparable to CL, as well as many other "next big things" to come out at that position in the last ten years.

Chris Long:
View attachment 1323


Clowney:
View attachment 1326

I don't believe it is a bit much. Long has always been an underrated athlete and has a great get-off(10 yard split reflects that) but on tape, it's not close between him and Clowney or him and Quinn. Long is savvy, polished and a good athlete with a non-stop motor. And that's what makes him a very good pass rusher. But Quinn and Clowney are on another level in comparison to Long in terms of athleticism. On film, it's there.

As far Chris having a better career, I'm not seeing that either...even with the numbers you posted. He played an extra year and statistically was inferior in sacks, TFLs and FFs.

Combine measurables are combine measurables. On film, Clowney is a better athlete and it's not by a small margin. Long's combine measurables were better than Quinn's, I don't think any of us believe that Long is a better athlete than Quinn.

Should a sub 4 minute time in the mile impress me when the guy is only going to run a 100 yard dash? The "important" (I'm using quotation marks because I don't really think it's important) stat is the 10 yard split which says something about his quickness off the snap. Small area agility and quickness measured by the 3-cone time could also be reasonably argued to be important for a lineman. Another area where he didn't impress me at all. To me, the 40 yard time doesn't even show much athletic ability. It does point out his long legs and lean frame which are great attributes for long distance runners. I could say even more about this (and I will if asked) but I think you get where I'm coming from. I would be reasonably impressed if he was a TE.

Jared Cook: 6'5", 254 lbs, 40 yard dash time = 4.49. Pretty much the same size as Clowney but his 40 time impresses me. Different job description.

Measurables really aren't very important to begin with(agree with you on that) and yes, the 10 yard split is more important than the 40...and a 1.56 10 is extremely impressive for a DL.

But the contention that a 266 pound DE running a 4.53 40 doesn't show much athletic ability is a tad outrageous to me. You can certainly argue that it's not applicable to what he does but that's freakish athleticism no matter how you slice it.

As far as Cook goes, he's freakish athlete too...and I'm nitpicking but technically, his official 40 was a 4.50. That's a 0.03 second difference between a freakish 254 pound TE and a freakish 266 pound DE.

They're both freaks in their own right.

To answer your question, yes, a sub 4 minute mile would impress me no matter what the guy does.

 

[Ram_of_Old]

Long's work ethics and that eternal motor of his gives him the nod. Clowney has not proven his heart, as has Long.

 

[Alan]

I see nothing in Chris Long's or Clowney's resume that would merit the label of freakish athlete. Look at Cook's stats at the link and I think you'll see the difference because IMO he does fit the description.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=56966&draftyear=2009&genpos=TE

Don't get me wrong jrry, I'm not implying that Clowney isn't an exceptional athlete. I just don't think he's any more athletic than Chris is. My point in my original post has to do with the, IMO, extreme overhyping of Clowney's abilities. I don't see anything in his combine stats or his college career that would substantiate that claim. I do see him having the capability to become very good if he gets his head straight but that's a big if.

Aaron Curry was a freakish athlete too.

 

[jjab360]

Yep. Long was every bit the athlete that Clowney is when he came out. You see the work ethic from him. Clowney will not just come in to the NFL and dominate without putting in that work....

That's either a great 10 yard split (the far more important speed stat IMO) by Long or a really bad split for Clowney. Not a good 3-cone result for Clowney either. I'll be very surprised if these results improve his draft prospects. the 4.53 40 doesn't impress me at all.

Of course I don't put very much stock in any of the combine results so there's that.

I see nothing in Chris Long's or Clowney's resume that would merit the label of freakish athlete. Look at Cook's stats at the link and I think you'll see the difference because IMO he does fit the description.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=56966&draftyear=2009&genpos=TE

Don't get me wrong jrry, I'm not implying that Clowney isn't an exceptional athlete. I just don't think he's any more athletic than Chris is. My point in my original post has to do with the, IMO, extreme overhyping of Clowney's abilities. I don't see anything in his combine stats or his college career that would substantiate that claim. I do see him having the capability to become very good if he gets his head straight but that's a big if.

Aaron Curry was a freakish athlete too.

You guys certainly know how to go overboard when making an argument lol.

 

[Faceplant]

Yes yes, we know. Clowney is the greatest athlete on the planet and will soon own every record the NFL has ever recorded. I was simply going by athletic measurables...such as the ones they write down at the combine. Jedavion may well be the better all around athlete...and maybe even by a wide margin as some of you have stated, but those #s are what they are, and they are not debatable. I will not lie and say I have watched a ton of "tape" on him, unless you mean the few full game edited youtube vids of him over the last couple of seasons, but I have my doubts. Whether it be his motivation, motor, how he handles the VASTLY better OL technique in the NFL...well, like I said, I have my doubts. If he is wearing horns next season, then I hope all of the hype is UNDERSTATED!!