Jeff Fisher, Master of the Just Enough Offense

[max]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Fisher's low risk approach to offense somehow restrains the Rams from scoring TD and instead leads to more FGs.

When the Rams have the ball with 2 min. left to play in the game and they are within 3 pts, I have total faith that they will get it done. I mean, I had no doubt that Bradford would get them in FG range and GZ would hit it last Sunday.

Interestingly enough, when the Rams have the ball with 2 min. left to play in the game and they are within 7 pts, I STILL have faith that they will get it done. Just like they did in Buffalo last year.

And yet, when they have the ball on the 3 yard line, first and goal, like they did after the TruJohnson pick, I had no faith that they'd score a TD.

I just don't get it. Why do they lock up during the game like that? Many of us blame either Shotty or Sam for not getting TDs in the Red Zone, but I think it may have something to do with Fisher's general approach of don't risk losing the FG until you can only win with a TD.

 

[brokeu91]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Fisher's low risk approach to offense somehow restrains the Rams from scoring TD and instead leads to more FGs.

When the Rams have the ball with 2 min. left to play in the game and they are within 3 pts, I have total faith that they will get it done. I mean, I had no doubt that Bradford would get them in FG range and GZ would hit it last Sunday.

Interestingly enough, when the Rams have the ball with 2 min. left to play in the game and they are within 7 pts, I STILL have faith that they will get it done. Just like they did in Buffalo last year.

And yet, when they have the ball on the 3 yard line, first and goal, like they did after the TruJohnson pick, I had no faith that they'd score a TD.

I just don't get it. Why do they lock up during the game like that? Many of us blame either Shotty or Sam for not getting TDs in the Red Zone, but I think it may have something to do with Fisher's general approach of don't risk losing the FG until you can only win with a TD.

I've wondered that too. But the fact is, whatever he's doing is working.

I just want the Rams to win a game where I don't have a heart attack in the 4th quarter. You know, victory formation, leading by 14 points.

 

[albefree69]

max striking a nerve:
Does anyone else get the feeling that Fisher's low risk approach to offense somehow restrains the Rams from scoring TD and instead leads to more FGs.

When the Rams have the ball with 2 min. left to play in the game and they are within 3 pts, I have total faith that they will get it done. I mean, I had no doubt that Bradford would get them in FG range and GZ would hit it last Sunday.

Interestingly enough, when the Rams have the ball with 2 min. left to play in the game and they are within 7 pts, I STILL have faith that they will get it done. Just like they did in Buffalo last year.

And yet, when they have the ball on the 3 yard line, first and goal, like they did after the TruJohnson pick, I had no faith that they'd score a TD.

I just don't get it. Why do they lock up during the game like that? Many of us blame either Shotty or Sam for not getting TDs in the Red Zone, but I think it may have something to do with Fisher's general approach of don't risk losing the FG until you can only win with a TD.

It's not just on offense either. He has the same philosophy when it comes to our D too. I doubt this team will ever be a top 5 O or D. Of course we'll probably be top 10 or close to it every year on both sides of the ball but you have to play agressively if you want to be with the big boys IMO.

brokeu91 with some wishful thinking:
But the fact is, whatever he's doing is working.

Sounds good but where's the evidence of that? He's been here one year and we have an 8-8-1 record and our O has been holding us back. I get the lack of weapons and other excuses and I also see how we're trending but until it actually happens I can't agree with that statement.

 

[brokeu91]

Sounds good but where's the evidence of that? He's been here one year and we have an 8-8-1 record and our O has been holding us back. I get the lack of weapons and other excuses and I also see how we're trending but until it actually happens I can't agree with that statement.

Well, considering what our record was before he came here, I'd say it was a dramatic improvement and evidence that it's working. But like you said, I do wish our offense would feel a higher sense of urgency before the 4th quarter.

 

[max]

And it's just inexplicable that they have a 7 of 8 success rate on 2 pt conversions, yet they can't get it in from the 3 yard line on 1st and goal.

That's just crazy.

 

[LesBaker]

The red zone issues for me boil down to three things. One, the OL hasn't done a great job run blocking for a few years. Two, suspect play calling and three Bradford has no touch and that limits play calling and opportunities down there.

The OL will be contributing to scores a lot more this year though I am confident of that.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Bradford has no touch? Wwwhhhaaattt? Kaepernick has no touch. he throws everything hard. Sam has great touch on his passes.



I do find it interesting about the two point conversions though. The Rams Oline needs some good guards. Dahl is good but aging. Wells is great for making the line calls but he is aging too. Williams looked pretty good and is still young. But Warmack and Levitre looked great for Tennessee. I would love that kind of dominant run blocking.

 

[LesBaker]

Bradford has no touch? Wwwhhhaaattt? Kaepernick has no touch. he throws everything hard. Sam has great touch on his passes.



I do find it interesting about the two point conversions though. The Rams Oline needs some good guards. Dahl is good but aging. Wells is great for making the line calls but he is aging too. Williams looked pretty good and is still young. But Warmack and Levitre looked great for Tennessee. I would love that kind of dominant run blocking.

I think he is pretty average at best at passes that require that little feathery touch to drop in. That doesn't mean he can't learn though. Bulger had even worse touch and ended up being able to throw a pretty decent screen

Think about the last time you saw a corner fade when the Rams are deep in the red zone. I can't remember when I last saw one. They will roll Bradford out or send guys in crossing patterns over the middle but no fades because it isn't Bradford's thing. He throws fastballs/darts.

 

[albefree69]

Elmgrovegnome seeing things differently:
Bradford has no touch? Wwwhhhaaattt? Kaepernick has no touch. he throws everything hard. Sam has great touch on his passes.

SB's lack of touch on corner fade routes in the end zone and his inability to throw a decent screen pass (he tries to thread the needle between players has been documented by experts and posters for many years now. H'es getting better but it's still a work in progress. He made a really good pass to DR in preseason that gives me great hope for the future. Bulger had the same problem early in his career.

I was unaware that Kapernoodle had the same issues but I like the sound of that. :bg:

OK Les, quit stealing stuff from my brain! :itson:

 

[max]

The red zone issues for me boil down to three things. One, the OL hasn't done a great job run blocking for a few years. Two, suspect play calling and three Bradford has no touch and that limits play calling and opportunities down there.

The OL will be contributing to scores a lot more this year though I am confident of that.

Ok. Then explain the 7 of 8 success rate on 2 pt conversions.

It makes no sense that Bradford would be great passing on 2 pt conversions but not good on 1st and goal from the 3.

It's just screwy.

 

[albefree69]

2 point conversions are one chance and your done. So there's a huge sense of urgency there that's lacking in the other situations.

First and goal inside the five allows OCs to get cute and getting cute can often lead to negative yardage plays.

 

[max]

2 point conversions are one chance and your done. So there's a huge sense of urgency there that's lacking in the other situations.

First and goal inside the five allows OCs to get cute and getting cute can often lead to negative yardage plays.

I think that's the way I'm leaning. I mean, I think the majority of blame for the failure to score TD near the Goal Line is on Shotty. Sam has shown he can execute from the 2 yard line extremely well. Just gotta give him a decent play.

Hopefully one day Sam will ignore Shottys play calling and just do it himself.

 

[CoachO]

The biggest thing for me is the lack of commitment to RUNNING THE BALL in the RedZone, specifically inside the 5 yard line. I realize that things get packed with goal line packages, but in order to use any play action when you NEED to, you have to establish that you CAN and WILL run the ball.

Throwing an incomplete pass on 1st and Goal, then running a draw out of the shotgun on 2nd down is a recipe for disaster. They have a "Jumbo" package on offense. USE IT!!!!

On the 1st down incompletion to Pettis, Richardson failed to pick up an "A" gap Blitz, which teams are going to bring in most EVERY Goal Line scenario, and Bradford had to get rid of the ball sooner than he wanted to.

If you watch that play again, look to the left side of the formation. While it still boggles my mind that they chose to throw the ball, they had Brian Quick, a 6'4 WR with single coverage lined up on the numbers with the entire corner of the EndZone to win a jump ball against a 5'10 CB NOT NAMED PETERSON. They didn't even look that way.

This IMO, is the biggest issue, not that Bradford doesn't have a touch, or that he "panics" in the RedZone. When they continually to try to throw on FIRST DOWN inside the 5, he just doesn't have the time to hold the ball.

IMO, they "outsmart" themselves with the play calling.

 

[max]

The biggest thing for me is the lack of commitment to RUNNING THE BALL in the RedZone, specifically inside the 5 yard line. I realize that things get packed with goal line packages, but in order to use any play action when you NEED to, you have to establish that you CAN and WILL run the ball.

Throwing an incomplete pass on 1st and Goal, then running a draw out of the shotgun on 2nd down is a recipe for disaster. They have a "Jumbo" package on offense. USE IT!!!!

On the 1st down incompletion to Pettis, Richardson failed to pick up an "A" gap Blitz, which teams are going to bring in most EVERY Goal Line scenario, and Bradford had to get rid of the ball sooner than he wanted to.

If you watch that play again, look to the left side of the formation. While it still boggles my mind that they chose to throw the ball, they had Brian Quick, a 6'4 WR with single coverage lined up on the numbers with the entire corner of the EndZone to win a jump ball against a 5'10 CB NOT NAMED PETERSON. They didn't even look that way.

This IMO, is the biggest issue, not that Bradford doesn't have a touch, or that he "panics" in the RedZone. When they continually to try to throw on FIRST DOWN inside the 5, he just doesn't have the time to hold the ball.

IMO, they "outsmart" themselves with the play calling.

I totally agree with you. And that supports my conclusion that it is mostly on Shotty and by extension on Fisher.

I just refuse to believe that a QB who is successful on 7 of 8 2pt conversions, doesn't have the ability to be successful on 1st and goal from the 3. Bradford is being hampered by Shotty and Fisher.

I do think they are getting way too cute, but I think they are trying to be overly careful too. It's like they are telling Sam be very careful down there, don't risk losing the FG, but make sure you score. I don't like it.

As I said, hopefully Sam matures to the point of calling his own plays down there. He's not the kind of QB who creates miracles out of thin air with his legs when a play breaks down like Russell, RG3, and Kaepernick. Sam needs to play within a structure like Brady even though he is more mobile than Brady. I think Sam will get to that point. Free Sam Bradford!

 

[LesBaker]

The biggest thing for me is the lack of commitment to RUNNING THE BALL in the RedZone, specifically inside the 5 yard line. I realize that things get packed with goal line packages, but in order to use any play action when you NEED to, you have to establish that you CAN and WILL run the ball.

Throwing an incomplete pass on 1st and Goal, then running a draw out of the shotgun on 2nd down is a recipe for disaster. They have a "Jumbo" package on offense. USE IT!!!!

On the 1st down incompletion to Pettis, Richardson failed to pick up an "A" gap Blitz, which teams are going to bring in most EVERY Goal Line scenario, and Bradford had to get rid of the ball sooner than he wanted to.

If you watch that play again, look to the left side of the formation. While it still boggles my mind that they chose to throw the ball, they had Brian Quick, a 6'4 WR with single coverage lined up on the numbers with the entire corner of the EndZone to win a jump ball against a 5'10 CB NOT NAMED PETERSON. They didn't even look that way.

This IMO, is the biggest issue, not that Bradford doesn't have a touch, or that he "panics" in the RedZone. When they continually to try to throw on FIRST DOWN inside the 5, he just doesn't have the time to hold the ball.

IMO, they "outsmart" themselves with the play calling.

I can't remember Bradford making that kind of throw and I am trying to. Maybe X has some video evidence but I can't recall a single time Bradford has executed a corner fade.

If you remember Bulger had this same problem while Martz was calling the plays. One of the reasons red zone production dropped (yes there were many I know) was that without Warner under center Martz couldn't call those pass plays that required great touch on the ball because it was a turnover risk. Bulger didn't develop touch until Linehan drilled it into him to use Jackson on screens. So I think Bradford can and will learn it, but right now I don't think he can do it and it's part of the reason for the lack of red zone production even going back to PS.

And it needs to change because not only as you mention Quick is a mismatch lets not forget Cook is 6' 5" 250 pounds and has a FORTY ONE INCH vertical leap.

BS will hopefully have those two lined up on opposite sides soon.

 

[CoachO]

The biggest thing for me is the lack of commitment to RUNNING THE BALL in the RedZone, specifically inside the 5 yard line. I realize that things get packed with goal line packages, but in order to use any play action when you NEED to, you have to establish that you CAN and WILL run the ball.

Throwing an incomplete pass on 1st and Goal, then running a draw out of the shotgun on 2nd down is a recipe for disaster. They have a "Jumbo" package on offense. USE IT!!!!

On the 1st down incompletion to Pettis, Richardson failed to pick up an "A" gap Blitz, which teams are going to bring in most EVERY Goal Line scenario, and Bradford had to get rid of the ball sooner than he wanted to.

If you watch that play again, look to the left side of the formation. While it still boggles my mind that they chose to throw the ball, they had Brian Quick, a 6'4 WR with single coverage lined up on the numbers with the entire corner of the EndZone to win a jump ball against a 5'10 CB NOT NAMED PETERSON. They didn't even look that way.

This IMO, is the biggest issue, not that Bradford doesn't have a touch, or that he "panics" in the RedZone. When they continually to try to throw on FIRST DOWN inside the 5, he just doesn't have the time to hold the ball.

IMO, they "outsmart" themselves with the play calling.

I totally agree with you. And that supports my conclusion that it is mostly on Shotty and by extension on Fisher.

I just refuse to believe that a QB who is successful on 7 of 8 2pt conversions, doesn't have the ability to be successful on 1st and goal from the 3. Bradford is being hampered by Shotty and Fisher.

I do think they are getting way too cute, but I think they are trying to be overly careful too. It's like they are telling Sam be very careful down there, don't risk losing the FG, but make sure you score. I don't like it.

As I said, hopefully Sam matures to the point of calling his own plays down there. He's not the kind of QB who creates miracles out of thin air with his legs when a play breaks down like Russell, RG3, and Kaepernick. Sam needs to play within a structure like Brady even though he is more mobile than Brady. I think Sam will get to that point. Free Sam Bradford!

While I understand your premise, to me its not about hampering BRADFORD, its about not giving the entire OFFENSE the best opportunity to score.

I think the premise of "being careful down there", is more an overall philosophy throughout the entire game. Fisher PREACHES ball security, and coaches to avoid taking chances. If you look at Bradford's numbers, they are dramatically different in the 4th quarter of games. When its crunch time, he can and will make throws, that he simply doesn't try to make earlier in games.

He is being COACHED to NOT take chances by forcing the ball into coverage. When they get to the 4th Qtr. they realize they have to make plays, and the "shackles" are taken off. I am not saying I disagree with this philosophy, just giving my opinion on the overall philosophy.

Its exaggerated in the RedZone, because you leave points on the field if you take chances. Nothing is more devastating to a team than RedZone turnovers.

That being said, I just don't understand what seems to be an unwillingness to run the ball when they get in these situations.

 

[fearsomefour]

The biggest thing for me is the lack of commitment to RUNNING THE BALL in the RedZone, specifically inside the 5 yard line. I realize that things get packed with goal line packages, but in order to use any play action when you NEED to, you have to establish that you CAN and WILL run the ball.

Throwing an incomplete pass on 1st and Goal, then running a draw out of the shotgun on 2nd down is a recipe for disaster. They have a "Jumbo" package on offense. USE IT!!!!

On the 1st down incompletion to Pettis, Richardson failed to pick up an "A" gap Blitz, which teams are going to bring in most EVERY Goal Line scenario, and Bradford had to get rid of the ball sooner than he wanted to.

If you watch that play again, look to the left side of the formation. While it still boggles my mind that they chose to throw the ball, they had Brian Quick, a 6'4 WR with single coverage lined up on the numbers with the entire corner of the EndZone to win a jump ball against a 5'10 CB NOT NAMED PETERSON. They didn't even look that way.

This IMO, is the biggest issue, not that Bradford doesn't have a touch, or that he "panics" in the RedZone. When they continually to try to throw on FIRST DOWN inside the 5, he just doesn't have the time to hold the ball.

IMO, they "outsmart" themselves with the play calling.

Exactly.
It wasnt much better with a power back like Jackson running the ball. The Oline has not been good at 3 and 1 either. When the Rams had 1st and goal inside the 5 the second time in that game I wanted to Stacy running behind a FB to the left side....three times if need be.
I agree a draw in the redzone is just bad play calling. Definition of a finesse team.

 

[max]

The biggest thing for me is the lack of commitment to RUNNING THE BALL in the RedZone, specifically inside the 5 yard line. I realize that things get packed with goal line packages, but in order to use any play action when you NEED to, you have to establish that you CAN and WILL run the ball.

Throwing an incomplete pass on 1st and Goal, then running a draw out of the shotgun on 2nd down is a recipe for disaster. They have a "Jumbo" package on offense. USE IT!!!!

On the 1st down incompletion to Pettis, Richardson failed to pick up an "A" gap Blitz, which teams are going to bring in most EVERY Goal Line scenario, and Bradford had to get rid of the ball sooner than he wanted to.

If you watch that play again, look to the left side of the formation. While it still boggles my mind that they chose to throw the ball, they had Brian Quick, a 6'4 WR with single coverage lined up on the numbers with the entire corner of the EndZone to win a jump ball against a 5'10 CB NOT NAMED PETERSON. They didn't even look that way.

This IMO, is the biggest issue, not that Bradford doesn't have a touch, or that he "panics" in the RedZone. When they continually to try to throw on FIRST DOWN inside the 5, he just doesn't have the time to hold the ball.

IMO, they "outsmart" themselves with the play calling.

I totally agree with you. And that supports my conclusion that it is mostly on Shotty and by extension on Fisher.

I just refuse to believe that a QB who is successful on 7 of 8 2pt conversions, doesn't have the ability to be successful on 1st and goal from the 3. Bradford is being hampered by Shotty and Fisher.

I do think they are getting way too cute, but I think they are trying to be overly careful too. It's like they are telling Sam be very careful down there, don't risk losing the FG, but make sure you score. I don't like it.

As I said, hopefully Sam matures to the point of calling his own plays down there. He's not the kind of QB who creates miracles out of thin air with his legs when a play breaks down like Russell, RG3, and Kaepernick. Sam needs to play within a structure like Brady even though he is more mobile than Brady. I think Sam will get to that point. Free Sam Bradford!

While I understand your premise, to me its not about hampering BRADFORD, its about not giving the entire OFFENSE the best opportunity to score.

I think the premise of "being careful down there", is more an overall philosophy throughout the entire game. Fisher PREACHES ball security, and coaches to avoid taking chances. If you look at Bradford's numbers, they are dramatically different in the 4th quarter of games. When its crunch time, he can and will make throws, that he simply doesn't try to make earlier in games.

He is being COACHED to NOT take chances by forcing the ball into coverage. When they get to the 4th Qtr. they realize they have to make plays, and the "shackles" are taken off. I am not saying I disagree with this philosophy, just giving my opinion on the overall philosophy.

Its exaggerated in the RedZone, because you leave points on the field if you take chances. Nothing is more devastating to a team than RedZone turnovers.

That being said, I just don't understand what seems to be an unwillingness to run the ball when they get in these situations.

I agree with that. I was just more focused on if Bradford is good enough to get the job done. I think he is and will show a lot more as the season goes on.

The only thing I can add to that is that Fisher may not have that much faith in the running game right now. Frankly, I don't think all that much of DRich. I mean he tries really hard, but he's got no shake to him, gets hit and lit up easily, and goes down immediately on impact. For some reason, Fisher doesn't trust Stacey and Cunningham just yet. So they don't have a very capable red zone running game.

I bet they draft a RB fairly high next year.

 

[Zaphod]

Regarding just enough offense, I don't really see them doing that so much. I think they really were trying to sell the run early. They put the ball in Richardson's hands a lot it seemed, whether a hand off or a pass and then they just took what was open.

To me there were moments on that last drive that could have gone bad for the Rams. Didn't the Cardinals even give us a couple penalties to help extend the play? And then after victory, the camera moved to Fisher for what was the closest thing I think I've seen to an expression of relief on his face.

I think it's really just the offense coming together, because even from the most conservative perspective, I'm sure they would have the offense on the field for as much time as possible.