Jameis Winston suspended for half vs. Clemson over obscenity incident

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jrry32

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we definitely don't see things the same way here

We don't. As I said, might be an age difference(I don't know your age) that accounts for the difference in our perspective. But I think context in this is always important and we have no context.

Going back to my hypothetical, it would change things if this song were playing at the same time he was doing that...correct?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94MK2JQIgFs


I think the fact that the line is a reference to a video is an important distinction here. But even without that distinction, I don't think it's a morally reprehensible act. If the guy hadn't gotten on the table...would people have an issue with it? For me, if him being on the table instead of the words is what makes it bad...it's not a morally reprehensible act. I'd say people are more perturbed by his poor decision-making and attention-whoring than anything else. But again, different perspectives.
 

jrry32

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actually he would probably be disciplined by the school and possibly suspended or even kicked out and if he had a scholarship it might even be taken away from him

unless he could play football or basketball or baseball or hockey or something else

Ya know, I don't think that's true. I've seen worse things receive little or no discipline. Conduct issues tend not to be given the same weight as academic integrity issues unless they're illegal(usually felonious) and/or bring down a shitstorm of negative PR.
 

LesBaker

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We don't. As I said, might be an age difference(I don't know your age) that accounts for the difference in our perspective. But I think context in this is always important and we have no context.

Going back to my hypothetical, it would change things if this song were playing at the same time he was doing that...correct?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94MK2JQIgFs


I think the fact that the line is a reference to a video is an important distinction here. But even without that distinction, I don't think it's a morally reprehensible act. If the guy hadn't gotten on the table...would people have an issue with it? For me, if him being on the table instead of the words is what makes it bad...it's not a morally reprehensible act. I'd say people are more perturbed by his poor decision-making and attention-whoring than anything else. But again, different perspectives.


I'm sorry but almost anybody with any courtesy and respect for other people would know that it is reprehensible to shout that kind of shit in a crowded Student Union

jumping on the table has nothing to do with that
 

Mackeyser

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I think the fact, as someone pointed out already, is that JW is in the public eye, and his future depends on his actions on and off the field.

If Saul T.Balls , on his way to an accounting degree, stood on a table and shouted the same thing, no one would care

Um...yeah they would. If that incident ended up in his record, any major accounting firm would think twice about a young man displaying the lack of judgment to say such a thing. Moreover, with the zero harassment policies in place in virtually all Fortune 500 workplaces, that phrase would be either one that could get you fired or severely reprimanded.

So, the idea that in THIS job market that it couldn't cost Mr. Saul T. Balls (icwutudidthar) his first job out of college just doesn't jibe with reality. It could cost the average Joe MORE because Jameis Winston has skills that others don't. Mr. Balls, unfortunately, is just a guy with easily replicable skills.

Now, that doesn't mean Jameis Winston is untouchable or should engage in these behaviors. On the contrary, he's potentially costing himself millions because while there aren't LOTS of people who can do what he does, there are only 32 potential employers for his skills and not all of them are hiring or willing to pay him at the highest range. To make the most money, he has to "do the right things".

And he's not. Worse, if the rape allegations are substantiated, meaning that he was involved in some sort of non-consensual activity, even if he's found not-guilty, he'll still likely end up with a first strike under the Goodell DV policy (because "not-guilty" doesn't mean "innocent" and the NFL has set that precedent many years ago). So, if anything, Winston has to be squeakiest cleanest college athlete around. So clean, he makes Tim Tebow look like a Hells Angel after Sturgis...
 

jrry32

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I'm sorry but almost anybody with any courtesy and respect for other people would know that it is reprehensible to shout that kind of crap in a crowded Student Union

jumping on the table has nothing to do with that

That's the thing about 18-22 year olds all in one place...they don't(as a group) tend to have a lot of courtesy, respect, and common sense. Individually, there are plenty of people that wouldn't do it but as a whole, you're also going to have a lot of people that will do it or will yell/say loudly other inappropriate things.

I have a hard time being outraged over it because, while I don't yell those sort of things in a student union, I have said plenty of inappropriate things while in college that if taken out of context...and maybe even in context...would reflect poorly on me.
 

LesBaker

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That's the thing about 18-22 year olds all in one place...they don't(as a group) tend to have a lot of courtesy, respect, and common sense. Individually, there are plenty of people that wouldn't do it but as a whole, you're also going to have a lot of people that will do it or will yell/say loudly other inappropriate things.

I have a hard time being outraged over it because, while I don't yell those sort of things in a student union, I have said plenty of inappropriate things while in college that if taken out of context...and maybe even in context...would reflect poorly on me.

it was a douchebag move on his part and it has nothing to do with you or anybody else saying stupid things we have all done that but he stood up on a fucking table and yelled out out fuck her in the pussy over and over and over.

you can defend and justify it all you want he's an asshat
 

jrry32

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it was a douchebag move on his part and it has nothing to do with you or anybody else saying stupid things we have all done that but he stood up on a freaking table and yelled out out freak her in the pussy over and over and over.

you can defend and justify it all you want he's an asshat

You're entitled to your opinion, my friend. I just don't think we'll see eye to eye on this. Have a nice night. :)
 

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Alan

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jrry32 minimizing and subtracting:
If the guy hadn't gotten on the table...would people have an issue with it? For me, if him being on the table instead of the words is what makes it bad...it's not a morally reprehensible act.


That's the thing about 18-22 year olds all in one place...they don't(as a group) tend to have a lot of courtesy, respect, and common sense. Individually, there are plenty of people that wouldn't do it but as a whole, you're also going to have a lot of people that will do it or will yell/say loudly other inappropriate things.
I didn't read the first three pages of this thread so keep that in mind but I have to say that I have some problems with the logic you're using. I disagree with your take on this incident but that's not what I'm talking about here.

Isn't that like saying we played great run D against the Bucs, if you subtract those four big runs. Skipping over the inappropriateness if what he said, he did get up on the table and make a spectacle of himself. How can you subtract half of an act and then pretend that the half is the whole? Not to mention that what he did was a huge red flag.

Because there are lots of young people doing stupid and inappropriate things it makes it OK? Just because the first lemming jumped off the cliff it doesn't mean it's smart for the rest to follow does it? I can't really even understand your point there. One guy = asshole and 100 guys = trend setters?

I don't know jrry, that's some far out convoluted logic IMO.


 
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jjab360

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Lol at the people who were outraged at this like he killed a puppy or something. Reminds me of the guy who wrote about how his family was devastated and mentally scarred by that "pornographic" Hardee's commercial.

Loosen up, people.
 

Alan

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jjab36 tryiing to spread oil on troubled waters:
Loosen up, people.
Good idea jjab.

I'm not outraged at all and I actually don't even care about this incident. I do care about logic and all things anal retentive though. :LOL:
 

Mackeyser

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I don't so much care about what he said. I'm pretty salty and I wasn't offended.

I care about the fact that he didn't THINK. He's already on a short leash and can't afford to do these things. He CANNOT afford to do exactly these types of things while auditioning to be the "face of a franchise" type QB that teams are looking for.

No team wants to draft a guy to be their #1 who's going to stand up on a table as a rookie who might say (and be caught on a cellphone cam) "freak her in the pussy".

There's just too much at stake and the days of letting that stuff go are just gone.

If he wants to live in the spotlight, he's got to... abide.
 

jjab360

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I don't so much care about what he said. I'm pretty salty and I wasn't offended.

I care about the fact that he didn't THINK. He's already on a short leash and can't afford to do these things. He CANNOT afford to do exactly these types of things while auditioning to be the "face of a franchise" type QB that teams are looking for.

No team wants to draft a guy to be their #1 who's going to stand up on a table as a rookie who might say (and be caught on a cellphone cam) "freak her in the pussy".

There's just too much at stake and the days of letting that stuff go are just gone.

If he wants to live in the spotlight, he's got to... abide.
If he falls for being immature, then so be it. I don't think we're going to be picking very high anyway. He has the football intelligence which is all I really care about, Rams have done a good job cultivating an environment where we don't have any off the field problems. Fact is young kids adapt to their environment and college (especially FSU) is a pretty unruly environment.

And as far as getting on a table and saying stupid shit, who cares? I don't even know why he got suspended, must be because he's on a short leash and Jimbo wanted to set an example. There are real problems going on in the NFL like the recent epidemic of domestic violence, in comparison what Winston did really amounts to nothing.
 

dieterbrock

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So Winston still has an unresolved sexual assault situation hanging over his head, and he does something so degrading towards females in an insanely crowded place? He may be harmless, but has bottles for brains.
NFL is changing as we speak regarding off field activity and their responsibility towards it. Why on earth he would jeopardize his already tarnished image is beyond me.
 

Mackeyser

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But, @jjab360 , we can't "just care about football" anymore.

How's that working for Baltimore, Minnesota, Carolina and SF?

The days of football skills being the ONLY criteria are over. A guy may not have to be Walter Payton or Kurt Warner, but he can't be a negative off of the field anymore. He just...can't.

And honestly... in today's climate... if the Michael Vick thing happened TODAY? I honestly don't think he'd be back. I think that's how much it's changed. I'm not sure Ray Rice will be back to be honest... He may, but he'll have to go through the steps like Gregg Williams did. And so far, Ray Rice has had none of that.

If we only look at this through or own prisms, we miss the big picture. The big picture is coming into focus and that is that these behaviors won't be tolerated. Now, we all know the damage to a franchise if a team drafts the wrong QB in the 1st round. Hundreds of millions of salaries and a football generation of player's careers gone and perhaps a whole reboot to restart with an entirely new roster. We've seen it time and again.

With the new DV rules in place and other guys without the red flags... what's a team to do? As a fan, we're not quite literally betting ALL of that on ONE GUY. GMs...ARE.

It's not a casual question, it's a several hundred million dollar question. If your job and future livelihood were on the line as well as the coaching jobs of your entire staff as well as the careers of so many football players... Do you put it all on that one guy who with the spotlight on him keeps making really immature and dumb mistakes, including knowingly taking things from a booster - the crab legs from that store later paid for by a booster, an NCAA violation that could have cost him his scholarship or shouting offensive remarks in the student union of all places? And all that presumes the DV allegations aren't true, which isn't such a good presumption.

He may have all the football intelligence in the world. But if he has NO sense off the field, he won't be ON it to use it... Teams do those calculations when evaluating a player...
 

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That's the thing about 18-22 year olds all in one place...they don't(as a group) tend to have a lot of courtesy, respect, and common sense. Individually, there are plenty of people that wouldn't do it but as a whole, you're also going to have a lot of people that will do it or will yell/say loudly other inappropriate things.

I have a hard time being outraged over it because, while I don't yell those sort of things in a student union, I have said plenty of inappropriate things while in college that if taken out of context...and maybe even in context...would reflect poorly on me.

You know what they say about absolutes right? Just because one set of small, dumbass 18-22 year olds do it, doesn't mean others do as well.

And seriously, what's hard to understand about this dude STILL (I believe) being under investigation for rape and screaming out "*** her in the *****"?

Provided he did rape the girl (and knowing about 'justice' in Florida, especially FSU, I' m entirely convinced it is) that's just fucked up.

Wouldn't touch Winston with over mitts.
 

LesBaker

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OK so I don't follow college ball and don't keep up on stuff surrounding it, though this guys name has come up to the surface a bit. I decided to Google and found this list/timeline.

Can anyone think of another QB that has these kinds of issues surrounding him that isn't named Manziel? This guy is a problem and there are enough red flags, this last one being just bizarre, that it's bound to have some downward pressure on his draft status.

Nov. 25, 2012: A woman calls 911 to report that there are two men on a bike path on the Florida State University campus with what appears to be a black, long-barreled pistol. Police respond and draw their guns as they approach Jameis Winston and his roommate and teammate, Chris Casher, and ultimately handcuff them. The two tell the officer they were shooting at squirrels with a pellet gun, and they are released without charges being filed.

Nov. 25, 2012: A few hours after the incident on the bike path, Winston, Casher and two other Florida State players, Mario Edwards and Kenneth “P.J.” Williams, allegedly engage in a BB- and pellet-gun battle at their apartment house, inflicting an estimated $4,000 in damage. Management at the apartment house declines to press criminal charges after an FSU athletic official vows that the players will pay for the damage.

Dec. 7, 2012: Winston is accused of raping a woman at his off-campus apartment. The woman reports the assault to police that day and five weeks later calls a detective and identifies Winston as her attacker after seeing him in a class. Tallahassee police drop the investigation, contending the woman has refused to cooperate, then revive it nine months later and sent it to State Attorney Willie Meggs. Meggs conducts a new investigation but concludes that there is not enough evidence to file criminal charges. Winston’s lawyer contends the sexual encounter was consensual. The U.S. Department of Education later launches a federal investigation of the school’s handling of the incident after questions arise about whether Florida State followed the provisions of Title IX, and in August 2014 the school launches an investigation of Winston under the student code of conduct.

July 21, 2013: Winston is accused of entering a Burger King in Tallahassee and helping himself to soda from the fountain machine without paying for it. A restaurant employee later tells police she gave Winston a cup of water but that he poured the water out and helped himself to several cups of soda despite her objections. No charges are filed.

April 29, 2014: Winston is accused of stealing $32.72 worth of crab legs from a Tallahassee supermarket. He is given a civil citation that allows him to perform community service and is suspended from the FSU baseball team until he completes that work. Winston tells police he “forgot” to pay for the crab legs and publicly apologizes.

May 20, 2014: Winston is expected at a code-of-conduct hearing for Chris Casher and Ronald Darby, two FSU teammates who alleged the witnessed a portion of the sexual encounter involving the quarterback and the woman who accused him of rape. They are both accused of violating school rules. Winston does not show up for the hearing, and his lawyer contends that no one from the school ever asked him to be there – something that is disputed by attorneys involved in the process. However, FSU officials later acknowledge that they have no way to force a witness to attend a code-of-conduct hearing.

Sept. 16, 2014: Winston is seen by several students jumping up on a table on campus and screaming a sexually charged expletive-laced phrase that was made popular on the internet. FSU head football coach Jimbo Fisher suspends Winston for the first half of the team’s upcoming game with Clemson, and school officials vow that he will be subject to “internal discipline” – most likely under the school’s code of conduct. Winston apologizes.
 

jrry32

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OK so I don't follow college ball and don't keep up on stuff surrounding it, though this guys name has come up to the surface a bit. I decided to Google and found this list/timeline.

Can anyone think of another QB that has these kinds of issues surrounding him that isn't named Manziel? This guy is a problem and there are enough red flags, this last one being just bizarre, that it's bound to have some downward pressure on his draft status.

Nov. 25, 2012: A woman calls 911 to report that there are two men on a bike path on the Florida State University campus with what appears to be a black, long-barreled pistol. Police respond and draw their guns as they approach Jameis Winston and his roommate and teammate, Chris Casher, and ultimately handcuff them. The two tell the officer they were shooting at squirrels with a pellet gun, and they are released without charges being filed.

Nov. 25, 2012: A few hours after the incident on the bike path, Winston, Casher and two other Florida State players, Mario Edwards and Kenneth “P.J.” Williams, allegedly engage in a BB- and pellet-gun battle at their apartment house, inflicting an estimated $4,000 in damage. Management at the apartment house declines to press criminal charges after an FSU athletic official vows that the players will pay for the damage.

Dec. 7, 2012: Winston is accused of raping a woman at his off-campus apartment. The woman reports the assault to police that day and five weeks later calls a detective and identifies Winston as her attacker after seeing him in a class. Tallahassee police drop the investigation, contending the woman has refused to cooperate, then revive it nine months later and sent it to State Attorney Willie Meggs. Meggs conducts a new investigation but concludes that there is not enough evidence to file criminal charges. Winston’s lawyer contends the sexual encounter was consensual. The U.S. Department of Education later launches a federal investigation of the school’s handling of the incident after questions arise about whether Florida State followed the provisions of Title IX, and in August 2014 the school launches an investigation of Winston under the student code of conduct.

July 21, 2013: Winston is accused of entering a Burger King in Tallahassee and helping himself to soda from the fountain machine without paying for it. A restaurant employee later tells police she gave Winston a cup of water but that he poured the water out and helped himself to several cups of soda despite her objections. No charges are filed.

April 29, 2014: Winston is accused of stealing $32.72 worth of crab legs from a Tallahassee supermarket. He is given a civil citation that allows him to perform community service and is suspended from the FSU baseball team until he completes that work. Winston tells police he “forgot” to pay for the crab legs and publicly apologizes.

May 20, 2014: Winston is expected at a code-of-conduct hearing for Chris Casher and Ronald Darby, two FSU teammates who alleged the witnessed a portion of the sexual encounter involving the quarterback and the woman who accused him of rape. They are both accused of violating school rules. Winston does not show up for the hearing, and his lawyer contends that no one from the school ever asked him to be there – something that is disputed by attorneys involved in the process. However, FSU officials later acknowledge that they have no way to force a witness to attend a code-of-conduct hearing.

Sept. 16, 2014: Winston is seen by several students jumping up on a table on campus and screaming a sexually charged expletive-laced phrase that was made popular on the internet. FSU head football coach Jimbo Fisher suspends Winston for the first half of the team’s upcoming game with Clemson, and school officials vow that he will be subject to “internal discipline” – most likely under the school’s code of conduct. Winston apologizes.

Ben Roethlisberger?

You know what they say about absolutes right? Just because one set of small, dumbass 18-22 year olds do it, doesn't mean others do as well.

And seriously, what's hard to understand about this dude STILL (I believe) being under investigation for rape and screaming out "*** her in the *****"?

Provided he did rape the girl (and knowing about 'justice' in Florida, especially FSU, I' m entirely convinced it is) that's just fucked up.

Wouldn't touch Winston with over mitts.

I had to chuckle at these two comments taken in conjunction. You're convinced that he raped a girl despite having no knowledge or evidence of it.

As far as your contention, I don't know what else to say if you believe that college kids(18-22 year olds) don't tend to lack courtesy, respect, and common sense while in college. They don't lack it 100% of the time but they say and do plenty of stupid things that are majorly lacking in all three elements. And that's true at just about any state college.
 

LesBaker

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Ben Roethlisberger?



I had to chuckle at these two comments taken in conjunction. You're convinced that he raped a girl despite having no knowledge or evidence of it.

As far as your contention, I don't know what else to say if you believe that college kids(18-22 year olds) don't tend to lack courtesy, respect, and common sense while in college. They don't lack it 100% of the time but they say and do plenty of stupid things that are majorly lacking in all three elements. And that's true at just about any state college.

I don't know if ol' Ben acted up until he was well into his NFL career........

either way this is enough to have some negative impact on him.